The Crucifixion: A Medical Perspective

reply to post by MagnumOpus


I still chose the Lord, Jesus Christ. He died, was buried, and rose again the 3rd day.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by MagnumOpus

 

I still chose the Lord, Jesus Christ. He died, was buried, and rose again the 3rd day.

I've read that fable somewhere. Oh, now I recall. It was one of Satan worship explanations. Some primatives that didn't understand things way back when thought something happened, but didn't turn out that way.

Yep, they said some guy was burried, but turns out there was no dirt. He didn't even get dirty. They gave him a nice sponge bath and wrapped him up with medicines.

More like they thought he might be dead because he wasn't moving or talking and they put him on some rock to recover with lots of Myrrh. Plus, they had to fake out the local folks that thought he was a bit off anyway, so the wilder story helped.

It worked, but he had to move away because some wild ideas turned the world against them. Satan was Satan in those times.

Then again, it was a Friday when they did the Myrrh cure method upon the poor fella and he was well enough to get around by Sunday, only two days had passed. Oh boy, the primitives don't even do well with time.

They even thought it was "Good Friday" because the poor fella was almost executed for upsetting the locals.

But hey, then they decided Easter Sunday might become a great day to celebrate Ishtar, and worship a Satan theme.

So goes the world of religious fantasy and trying to make the fantastic out of only simple truths that the primatives were easily sold.


Thus, the land of religious fabels and story telling. There was no dirt. Just a very nice new room for recovery and treatment to fool the primitives gathered round.

The moral of the story is they had medicine in those days and it worked and kept the poor man from dying, but he still had to run far away to Egypt again, then France. He was a kind fellow, but had issues with not being clear so the world would understand him better.

reply to post by jmdewey60

I don't think Christianity is using his resurrection as proof of his being God.

Wow, what?? I thought that was the whole and only proof they need, it's the one event that backs up their faith.
Of course, I'm speaking of many organized Christian denominations, though not necessarily all.

I consider myself a follower of Christ's teachings, that he was a perfect soul who did arrive here to teach the people at that time, in that place, and was attempting to explain the fact that we are ALL GODS (part of the Divine Source, each of us with an indwelling spark that connects us to that Divine Source).

I think his message was to be kind and generous and helpful to one another, to shore each other up through troubles and tribulations, to be selfless in our compassion and empathy.

He didn't have to "resurrect" to prove it. He did what he came for. "It is finished."

In my opinion, it makes no difference to HIS MESSAGE whether he did or did not die on the cross. What matters is what he TAUGHT. We know the legend is that he WAS treated badly, horribly, by violent, cruel, narrow-minded bigots who didn't want him talking about those things.

All the bickering about whether he died or did not die on that day will never end. Those of us who understand that we are all just as precious and connected as everyone else, that we are all eternal spirits who survive our physical deaths, don't need to worry about whether or not he survived and was up and around, eating, talking, showing people his wounds....or if his followers saw a poltergeist.

It just causes trouble to fight over whether or not he survived the crucifixion. It's that stupid arguing that causes most of the problems among societies and nations. We need to focus on making things better, caring for one another instead.

Very possibly, he did survive, with the aid of a backroom deal, discreet supporters, and very skilled people who knew what they were doing, and was helped to flee the area and lived to a ripe old age in exile with others as St Issa.

Or else, he died. Personally, I find it comforting to know that he may have survived such a horrible experience. !!!

What I don't get is why others don't WANT him to have survived! IT DOESN'T TAKE AWAY THE STRENGTH OF HIS MESSAGE for him to have survived. I prefer to hope that he did!

Either way, arguing about it and insisting on it with spitting and hostility is stupid, stubborn, prideful, and unnecessary. The hard-core thumpers here get all upset and lash out when anyone suggests that maybe he did survive. That makes them look "bad" in terms of emulating the man. The skeptics (including myself) get defensive in response to that hostility and bull-headedness (naturally, because they feel attacked).

In the fabulous movie "The Englishman Who Went up a Hill but Came Down a Mountain", they talk about this theme. "All this fuss. Over what? Is it a hill? Or is it a mountain?"

It can still be precious and loved whether it is a hill OR a mountain. Jesus can still be cherished, honored, and loved whether he died that day or not.

Originally posted by wildtimes

"The Englishman Who Went up a Hill but Came Down a Mountain", they talk about this theme. "All this fuss. Over what? Is it a hill? Or is it a mountain?"

It can still be precious and loved whether it is a hill OR a mountain. Jesus can still be cherished, honored, and loved whether he died that day or not.

Wild,

I like the analogy in that theme, also expressed as mountains out of molehills. Home run expressions of how man embellishes stories to make fabels.

The real story of miracle, if it is to be cast as such, was that Jesus lived after coming so close to death. The miracle was never that he died. Those that celebrate death worship a god of the underground, Satan.

The hand of God, if it were to be expressed that day, were the gifts from God of the medicines, like Myrrh, and the knowledge to make the person well and save them from death.

Jesus survived capital punishments and escaped, via the hand of benevolence from others, to oppose an evil


These days, these type medicines are not considered miracles, just normal things to help preserve life. Death is never the objective, except for fabels with worship Satan.

The Miracles to come may be that the misled learn to worship life, that they rise up from worship of the dead, and recognize the benevolence in ways to preserve it. That is the real moral story of Jesus and the tomb.


It is hard to put a good man down, and Jesus survived by the good graces of good men coming to the rescue of the innocent man.

reply to post by MagnumOpus

The real story of miracle, if it is to be cast as such, was that Jesus lived after coming so close to death. The miracle was never that he died.

EXACTLY!!

The Miracles to come may be that the misled learn to worship life, that they rise up from worship of the dead, and recognize the benevolence in ways to preserve it. That is the real moral story of Jesus and the tomb.


It is hard to put a good man down, and Jesus survived by the good graces of good men coming to the rescue of the innocent man.

And anyone who can't respect that God, or the Divine Source, or the Highest Spirit helped that to happen and realize it's still just as important and significant is just not thinking straight!!
*facepalm*
Thanks for your work, Magnum. You might want to check out arpgme's thread questioning the Gnostic texts. We could use your support over there. www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by MagnumOpus

I've read that fable somewhere. Oh, now I recall. It was one of Satan worship explanations.

You read explanations of satan worship?

reply to post by wildtimes

The hard-core thumpers here get all upset and lash out when anyone suggests that maybe he did survive.

Probably because they see some black-magic spell-making with his blood, which can't be just ordinary blood but blood shed in dying.
I see his dying more as a prerequisite to resurrecting.
The whole, 'the seed must die in the ground to produce much fruit', thing.

reply to post by Iason321


You're not God, Iason. But maybe you didn't figure that out yet. You also weren't at the crucifixion and you don't know whether the Essenes managed to assist in Jesus' survival with or without the help of God.

This thread is not about how smart you and NuT are, and how idiotic everyone else is (Not). Where did Jesus say to mock and ridicule those engaged in discussion in his name?

reply to post by Iason321

Shall i continue? I gotta hundred more.

If you feel the need to describe yourself as a mocker and scorner some more, go for it. Those psalms just told you to knock it off! And also warned you that if you mock people they will hate you....but maybe you haven't even figured THAT out yet.

You're just don't get it, do you? You don't. I'm starting to think there's at least one serious thinking disorder going on with you. Perhaps related to all the substance abuse and the near-death. Delusions of grandeur, rather on an autistic/aspergers's scale, with narcissism and some out-of-control rage mixed in. You really aren't a very nice person as you portray yourself on ATS. One day you're done forever with someone, the next you're thanking them for info, and then turn around and mock and ridicule them with the arrogance thing again.

You don't know WHAT you believe, Iason! And you certainly don't practice what you preach. The fatal flaw in "apologetics". You think you're rid of your vices and saved and healed and a prophet with a calling, but you are still very much saturated with all that rage and hatred and anger and scornfulness that you describe was your "former self". And you're doing a piss-poor job at improving, even after censure by mods and members.

Just in case you aren't aware that the T&C apply to YOU if you are on here.

I know this one is off topic, but since you insist on making YOURSELF the topic when you behave this way (inappropriate attention seeking, methinks?), I will use your tactic and call you out on it. You, mr Christian, are not supposed to mock others. Neither in Jesus' rules, nor ATS's.

Clean up your act. If you want to be taken seriously, show some respect and some openness to the FACTS on the ground that DO NOT support your born-again zeal.

There is NO EVIDENCE for either Jesus' death and burial, nor his resurrection. There IS a body entombed in Kashmir with very evident symbolism (such as an effigy showing nail holes in hands and feet - results of a crucixion which NO ONE IN INDIA does)...explain THAT. All that needs to be done is open that tomb to see if it's Jesus' likely remains. But no, the bible-thumpers won't have it....no no....evidence? Nonono!! *fingers in ears, lalalala, ha ha ha you're a nutjob*

It's lame.

Originally posted by Iason321
“Correct a mocker and you make an enemy... Do not rebuke the mocker, he would only hate you..

Did you actually read that?

NVM, Wild beat me to it. But guess what, I guess we're like Satan and we're using scripture against you again?

Oh, and there's also the bloodied shroud that shows where the blood continued to seep out of his wounds once they were unplugged with the nails, and the side-jab also continued to bleed, indicating that HE WAS ALIVE while he was wrapped in it along with the healing agents of the Essenes and resulting from their tender care of him.

Learn your material. DEAD BODIES DO NOT BLEED.

Originally posted by wildtimes
Oh, and there's also the bloodied shroud that shows where the blood continued to seep out of his wounds once they were unplugged with the nails, and the side-jab also continued to bleed, indicating that HE WAS ALIVE while he was wrapped in it along with the healing agents of the Essenes and resulting from their tender care of him.

Learn your material. DEAD BODIES DO NOT BLEED.

Well, if that was really his....and/or is authentic.

reply to post by Hydroman

Well, if that was really his....and/or is authentic.

Actually recent (more recent than past) analysis backs up that it IS authentic. Even the authors of the book The Fifth Gospel, (cited above) acknowledge that. It provides evidence that he DID survive the ordeal.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Hydroman

 

Well, if that was really his....and/or is authentic.

Actually recent (more recent than past) analysis backs up that it IS authentic. Even the authors of the book The Fifth Gospel, (cited above) acknowledge that. It provides evidence that he DID survive the ordeal.

Wait, they said that it was in fact the shroud that belonged to Jesus, who was crucified? If there is the blood of the Son of God on that shroud (he is also God), then wouldn't that be something everyone should be able to see and touch? Wouldn't it cause miracles?