Cuba issue deals blow to US stature at 'Summit of the Americas'

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


I thought all politicians used prostitutes and drugs.
Isn't that a universal thing?

What's the problem?

Originally posted by grey580
reply to post by Erongaricuaro

 

I thought all politicians used prostitutes and drugs.
Isn't that a universal thing?

What's the problem?

It is only scandalous because no one admits to any of it after their college days. If they were all honest about it no one would bat an eye. This time it was the schoolyard bully that got the black eye.

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


besides being the bully of which i doubt they would have looked like while in cuba. it jus feels good sometimes to clean house and if they were in a casino district who are they to sanction cuba and enjoy its fineries at the negotiation table?

reply to post by MESSAGEFROMTHESTARS


Dude a bunch of opium farmers in Afghanistan are whooping the most sophisticated military machine the world has ever seen. Watch the show "Bomb Patrol Afganistan" on G4 and you will see what I mean

If I'm not mistaken, wasn't the Cuban Embargo originally initiated to prohibit offensive Soviet nuclear missiles from being installed on this island? The missiles were taken away and the Soviet Union ceased to exist twenty years ago. So why is there still an embargo?

The continuing embargo is indeed an anachronism from the Cold War, and it needs to end. And I'm sorely disappointed in my own Canadian government (Prime Minister Stephen Harper, specifically) for supporting the American stance that Cuba not be allowed to attend the summit, especially given the relatively-close relationship Canada has keep with Cuba during the Cold War.

Originally posted by Germanicus

Originally posted by MESSAGEFROMTHESTARS
reply to post by Erongaricuaro

 

You better be careful in posting threads that have anything to do with drugs in these parts. We don't want great threads such as this to be removed, based on it containing the topic of drug use!

The thread is about the fact that nobody is scared of America anymore.

Other nations now laugh at America.

edit on 16-4-2012 by Germanicus because: (no reason given)

How can they not laugh at us? Just look at all the clowns we have in DC, they have taken our 3 tier system of government and turned it into a 3 ring circus complete with sideshow freaks such as Pelosi, Frank, Clinton, and Bidden.

Reply to post by MESSAGEFROMTHESTARS

While I understand the mods' take on drugs on here, barring discussions of the drug war puts them in line with Obama's hard-line stance on drugs at the moment.

This is a valid topic that should not be censored. The drug war is a colossal failure and should indeed be scrapped in favor of decriminalization, taxation and regulation.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

on entertainment tonight they showed the pictures of secretary of state drinking it up in cuba. i guess someone wanted to paint the war on drugs in the same light as a secretary of state drinking some rounds of beer and taking down some shots in leisure, and some secret service being to incompetent to receive services secretly.

reply to post by Ausar


A snippet from your link:

news.sky.com...

Hillary Clinton has been spotted dancing and drinking in a bar called Havana while attending a summit of American nations - where the US banned Cuba from attending.

The leftist bloc of nations - including Venezuela, Ecuador, Bolivia, Nicaragua and some Caribbean nations all oppose the ongoing isolation of the Castro regime, which was kicked out of the Organisation of American States shortly after its 1959 revolution.

Due to the hostile US and Canadian line on Cuba and resistance to a relaxation of the war on drugs, the heads of state failed to produce a final declaration as the two-day summit fizzled out on Sunday afternoon.

A bit of irony at play here as the US delegation to the Summit if the Americas is seen and heard tasting the "forbidden fruits" while on their trip to Cartegena, Colombia for this conference with some members of their staff having been relieved of duty and returned home for "indiscretions," though it appears no local laws were violated and no arrests were made.

Secretary of State Hilary Clinton makes a somewhat "in your face" showing by having a night on the town with her staff in this Cuban-themed nightclub. In light of the controversy already brewing one might reason that more could have been avoided by choosing a different venue as Cuba's exclusion from the Summit was one of the two most heated topics member-nations hoped to tackle at this event. But due to the United States' refusal to budge on these issues they are left unresolved.

Responsible adults are expected to know where to place their own limitations and what lines not to cross as people each have their own thresholds for knowing when simple pleasures become debauchery. It would appear the United States is not ever up to the responsibility of practicing self-restraint but would rather place blame elsewhere when these indulgences are made available and they abuse them. They appear ever ready to prove to the world they are like misbehaving children that are in need of constant supervision and they want the rest of the world put under the same constraints and treated like children as well.

The rest of the world seem up to the task of making adult decisions in this world while US Americans continually show the need to have themselves placed under watchful eyes. Perhaps their lives have been just too over-protected for them to ever grow up and face its realities and learn set their own limitations. Should the actions of these coddled miscreants be reason to hold the rest of the world back from being self-responsible people able to make their own decisions? No, not the rest of us, we don't need that. But it does give pause to see whose hands hold the world's superpowers.

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


the theme of what u say i agree with but the overarching emphasis on all americans is a strike at myself and other people who although having their faults cultivate discipline as well as the next. american freedom is interesting is it not; some people come to america conditioned to treat americas freedoms based on the lack of freedoms they have experienced premigration; the american "ruling" political body is one manifestation of this as well as the acts of many americans who say look i can burn a flag i am free, or i can practice eugenics i am free, or i can be a despotic republican i am free etcetera ad infinitum.

while like you say her actions are a symbol of debauchery; this is relative to how you are american and perceive the rights that make u american.

Originally posted by Ausar
reply to post by Erongaricuaro


My fault for not being making myself clear. Perhaps too sarcastically I was speaking of those in the US that seemingly welcome "the great nanny state" motiff as the tapestry for US American life, those who feel everyone must be supervised lest they fall victims to their desires. I shouldn't have generalized that it is all Americans.

I believe there may be a misperception at play here; although commercial and political oppression may exist in some Latin American societies the people typically are much more autonomous and their local market caters to personal and carnal appetites. Individuals must choose more deliberately which desires they wish to satisfy.

..., some people come to america conditioned to treat americas freedoms based on the lack of freedoms they have experienced premigration

...this is relative to how you are american and perceive the rights that make u american.

You are correct that people treat their freedoms in foreign countries based on those they lack in their own. Visitors to Latin America, spring breakers, political functionarial events, business conventioners, often are found engaged in healthy acts of debauchery, not unlike the military and Secret Service agents at this Summit. Hilary was just out for a night on the town. I personally applaud her for examing Cuban culture as this was a hot topic of the Summit and perhaps helped give her perspective and empathy. Her press in the aftermath of the SecServ scandal might have been different had she visited an Argentinian steak house or a Chilean nightclub, for instance.

BTW, I am a US citizen retired in Latin America.

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


It is clear that the U.S., and Canada, are so out of step about Castro and Cuba that everyone else in the entire hemisphere doesn't agree with them, to say the least. Why is Norte America so irrational about Castro, who has greatly improved the lives of the Cuban people since 1959, when he and the Guerrillas overthrew the incredibly corrupt tyrant Batista? It's so obvious Castro, and Che Guevara, among all those braves revolutionaries, were right, and trying to help the people, who were starving and terrified of their U.S.-supported gangster-capitalist American allies who were oppressing the people. Yankee imperialism indeed.

reply to post by senam


"they" are playing their interest. cuba is situated very strategically.. theorists can foresee a strong communist cuba situated where it is as a threat. its best for cuba to do as cuba does and for america to have honest relations dealing with cuba regarding its own intentions.

reply to post by senam


You must be young to wonder why the US is "irrational with Castro". Missiles anyone?

Originally posted by Erongaricuaro

Secretary of State Hilary Clinton makes a somewhat "in your face" showing by having a night on the town with her staff in this Cuban-themed nightclub. In light of the controversy already brewing one might reason that more could have been avoided by choosing a different venue as Cuba's exclusion from the Summit was one of the two most heated topics member-nations hoped to tackle at this event. But due to the United States' refusal to budge on these issues they are left unresolved.

Which highlights the point that it is easy for the CA/LA countries to jump on the US for its policies against Cuba since the US doesn't give a sh** about their opinions. Let them eat cake.

Btw, I agree thew first line of attack on CA/LA countries is not a direct military intervention. It's "regime change" as we see in Syria, Libya, etc. - we and NATO allies fund and train the insurgency. Can you say Allende?

The difference is we are vary capable of putting boots on the ground combined with advanced military warfare on several fronts these days and we have the military and political will to do so..

Originally posted by Ausar

"they" are playing their interest. cuba is situated very strategically.. theorists can foresee a strong communist cuba situated where it is as a threat. its best for cuba to do as cuba does and for america to have honest relations dealing with cuba regarding its own intentions.

Won't happen.

If Cuba ever decided to step out of line militarily as it did in the 60s, this time around, there won't be any Bay of Pigs fiasco. Count on it.

The US doesn't need to dominate Cuba, this isn't the same Cuba of the 60s where illegal gambling, tobacco, tourist trade, whores, booze, marijuana and sugar we're required [im]exports. The US gets nothing from Cuba anymore and needs nothing from Cuba anymore. Let Castro have the place, it's a dump anyway.

reply to post by PulsusMeusGallo


i disagree with your contention that the perception of american might is american might in action. it is best to communicate honestly with cuba; as obama has honestly expressed. but its not just the cuba issue that not just the south american countries are going to start pressuring usa about; the "debauchery" as op mentioned, as well as the hard line on decrim. these combined events were definitely defining moments of this summit; and the exterior pressure to ease sanctions on cuba as well as decrim will undoubtedly be more effectual to american politics than debauchery, stubbornness, or a dysfunctional perception of right use of destiny manifest. the issues the post concerns effects americas value; terrorism can only function so long to support the ideal that it sustains american values.

reply to post by Ausar

The USA doesn't, hasn't and won't give one chit about what any CA/LA inc Cuba thinks or says. Nothing happened at this Summit that won't be gone with the wind in a month. Blow off steam is all.

Pressure the USA?

Are you serious? All those drugs being imported into the US, who do you think makes the big bucks on those? LA/CA leaders.

Cuba? Might as well be Haiti for all the US cares.

we disagree. you focus on cuba but cuba is the catalyst for the subject matter of this thread, as well as decrim and the corruption during the trip. my ears are now closed to your willful ignorance, you did not address the issue the op mentioned in your replies to the catalysts mentioned other than to talk about perceptual facts; similar to the summit.

how do you feel about the summit nations urging cubas admittance into the summit?

america dont want to play ball with cuba and doesnt need to is what i hear you saying but those 30 or so nations disagree.

Originally posted by Erongaricuaro

BTW, I am a US citizen retired in Latin America.

Interesting that you use that term, living in Mexico. So few realize it is.