My desire to reconcile with conservatives

A couple of days ago, while watching the above video, I came across this gem in the comments:-

Does this "movement" deserve a second of coverage? A swarm of economic illiterates pitch tents, form drum circles, and get high.

Totally the face of America's future.

I've noticed that where Occupy are concerned, this is a consistent theme among conservatives; there really isn't anything other than a continual appeal to generalised stereotypes associated with the civil rights movement, which happened 50 years ago now.

As far as forming a drumming circle is concerned; Occupy doing this, and a conservative expressing contempt towards it, in my mind offers a major illustration of the fundamental difference between Left and Right.

The Left want to include people. Maybe it is just Marxist mind control. I will also admit, that there is a lot about Marxist social attitudes (particularly the obsession with victimhood) that I really don't like, but this point still stands.

The point behind a drumming circle, is to do something that a large group of people can participate in. I get a very strong feeling that the Right generally do not trust that. If I'm honest, I don't feel a particularly high level of trust towards at least the idea of those sorts of activities, either. There is no such thing as a human society which does not contain hierarchy; it doesn't exist.

Where the Left are inclusive, the Right are exclusive.

The contrast that I've noticed here, is that while Marxists tend to want to include literally anyone, (to the point where that, in and of itself, can have its' own negative characteristics and problems) the Right conversely define themselves by who they shut out. If you're the wrong gender, race, religion, or sexual orientation, you can generally forget about conservatives wanting you around.

A related point, though, is something that I've previously brought up where the Occupy movement are concerned. Although there are a few conservatives here, with whom I've been able to have an intelligent conversation, and reach a consensus about the issue; there are conversely a few other people who have demonstrated a single minded determination to hate Occupy, purely for its' own sake, and entirely irrespective of whatever contrary evidence that any supporters of the movement may try to present.

In other words, it isn't rationality, or objectivity; it is pure, emotive, senseless malice.

To be clear, I do not consider Occupy saints; a very long way from it. I am also not going to attempt to deny that the black bloc genuinely have been present at several of Occupy's events, when they clearly should not have been. I will also observe that Occupy has chosen to affiliate itself with a number of radical Left organisations, the likes of which most conservatives would openly refer to as socially destructive, aberrant freaks.



So I am entirely willing to admit, that Occupy genuinely does have a dark side; and truthfully I've actually found it frustrating that people who are more single mindedly supportive of the movement, have not been willing to acknowledge that. As much as the movement's supporters might not like to admit it, the footage shown in the above trailer, didn't come out of nowhere.

That actually brings up something else which I've noticed on this forum. Apparently, you have to either be single mindedly in support of something, or equally single mindedly against it. If you are able to provisionally support something, while still being aware of and willing to admit its' flaws, that is usually interpreted as you being a troll.

I am not polarised, where Occupy are concerned. I am not exclusively for them, and I am not exclusively against them. If I see something related to what they are doing which is positive, I will take it on board; but if I see something that is negative, then if I'm able to verify that such is actually true, I will integrate that into my opinion of the movement as well. All I ask for from conservatives, here, is a similar level of objectivity.

I will be honest about something. Although he has mellowed to some extent now, when I was growing up, my father was what I can only describe as a misogynistic, patriarchic fascist. As a result of his adamance, at the age of five years old I viewed the Transformers cartoon series as a metaphor for Australian federal politics, with the Liberal party (Australia's answer to the Republicans) in the role of the Autobots, Paul Keating and Bob Hawke as the real life counterparts of Starscream and Megatron, respectively, and Malcom Fraser as the real life counterpart of Optimus Prime.

As I grew up, however, and was subjected to the abuses not only of my father, but also my demonisation at the hands of fundamentalist Christianity, I gradually gravitated more and more towards the political and economic Left.

Part of this was due to my own autistic diagnosis, and the realisation that because of that, I was never likely to be admitted to the Right's proverbial old boys' network as a result, anyway. The major element of it, however, came as a result of my eventual apostasy from Christianity, which coincided with a three year period playing World of Warcraft, during which I also learned much about what Capitalism and white society had done to virtually every indigenous culture on this planet. While playing WoW as a Horde character, the ability, even if only vicariously, to enthusiastically make war on rich, beautiful, white, heterosexual Christians, was intensely cathartic and therapeutic. I have personally felt the pain of Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, and it drove me away from the Right.

In time, however, I began to tire exclusively of viewing adherents of the Right as the enemy. I originally came to Above Top Secret because I knew how strongly conservative this site was, and I genuinely wanted to begin to understand. I wanted to understand the motivation behind the desire for male chauvanism, and white supremacy. I wanted to understand why there are people in the world who genuinely agree with Gordon Gekko; that greed is good, and that somehow Reagan's vision of trickle down economics actually will work, to the benefit of all of us, rather than just those at the top of the pile.

I also started to want to heal the intense pain that I had been experiencing for years, due to the degree to which Christians had literally viewed me as a demonic monster. Christians only experience themselves telling a person that they are going to Hell. They don't experience what it is like for the person who has been told that, repeatedly, year after year, until said person finally becomes irrevocably convinced of their own spiritual worthlessness, and has to live with that.

I have written about this before. I do not care if nobody else believes me, or considers me purely a troll for expressing this; but I want to heal the rift in my own heart and mind, between Left and Right. I want to know how to synthesise both into a cohesive whole which draws from the benefits of each. I do not want to be polarised, or view anything as either exclusively good, or exclusively evil; but to recognise that both exist within all things.

Dont expose yourself too much. Some sociopaths around here see that as weak, fresh meat for their talking points and kill-the-messenger tactics.

Originally posted by Snoopy1978
Dont expose yourself too much. Some sociopaths around here see that as weak, fresh meat for their talking points and kill-the-messenger tactics.

Thanks, but I've truthfully already had it done to me at length in the past. I tend to be very transparent, and yes, the less morally evolved online, can view that as an opportunity to attack me at times. In the past it hurt, but I reached the point where I've realised that a person's opinion of me only really does hurt, if I actually care about the person making said opinion...and online, that doesn't happen much.

reply to post by petrus4


So you're coming to libertarianism from the left or right? Socially liberal and fiscally conservative, that kind of deal?

You should just concentrate on yourself. Live your own life, don't worry about other people. Let them come to you.

I find that worrying about other people only makes people miserable.

Welcome to the wonderful world of being on the autistic spectrum.

We see things as they are, without all the filters of social distraction.

I understand where you're coming from. There are aspects of me that can be considered left-wing, and others, right-wing.

It is society that demands that you choose either the square or the round peg to put yourself in, because most people's thought processes are either/or, black or white, and very stereotypical. They want to be able to describe a human being with a few words. No wonder there is so much misunderstanding and hate in the world.

Be who you are and find your own road less traveled. You don't need to reconcile in order to fit societal norms. But if you insist, be prepared to be frustrated.

David N. Bossie (born 1965 in Boston, Massachusetts)[1] is an American political activist. Since 2000 he has been President and Chairman of conservative advocacy organization Citizens United.[2]

en.wikipedia.org...

Looks like a fair and balanced doco
and unafraid

reply to post by Germanicus


Good catch. Something is definitely fishy in this thread.

Originally posted by Snoopy1978
reply to post by petrus4

 

So you're coming to libertarianism from the left or right? Socially liberal and fiscally conservative, that kind of deal?

I don't have problems with Capitalism, if it is small scale. It is primarily giant corporations, that I really don't like. I was an advocate of the Sherman Act, and I agreed with the decision to bring charges against Microsoft in particular under it. Given that I've used computers for 30 of the 35 years that I've been alive, I think I'm qualified to have an opinion on that particular case.

There are times when the size and behaviour of certain corporations can become a serious problem. There isn't anything inherently emotive in this, in my mind. Corporations have a life cycle, the same as any other organism; and at certain phases of said lifecycle, metastasis and cancer become a risk. When that happens, you need to take corrective actions, just as you do when an individual person gets sick.

Originally posted by Germanicus

David N. Bossie (born 1965 in Boston, Massachusetts)[1] is an American political activist. Since 2000 he has been President and Chairman of conservative advocacy organization Citizens United.[2]

en.wikipedia.org...

Looks like a fair and balanced doco

and unafraid

Occupy Unmasked isn't intended to be complementary towards the movement. You can see that purely by watching the trailer, and it isn't a conspiracy. That doesn't, however, mean that I'm going to take that exclusively on board, and have only a negative perception of the group.

Again, this is another example of either/or logic. It's only acceptable to be 100% in agreement with something, or 100% in disagreement. There is no middle ground.

If I was going to make a movie about Occupy, I'd include both the incredibly positive slides I saw from Zucotti Park, and the utopian aspect, and how brutally and unfairly the police acted towards them, both in terms of the main eviction, and afterwards...but I'd also include some of Breitbart's own footage of the black bloc smashing things up.

If both of those elements exist, then leaving either of them out is dishonest.

reply to post by petrus4


I have no middle ground with a doco on OWS that is made by guys from Fox News. What could you expect to gain from that?

Something Fair and Balanced? I watch Fox all the time but I see no sense in watching a doco their guys make about OWS.

Fox is good for the hot chicks,humour and the know your enemy value. Not much else.

Originally posted by Germanicus
reply to post by petrus4

 

I have no middle ground with a doco on OWS that is made by guys from Fox News. What could you expect to gain from that?

A good belly laugh, if nothing else. The trailer alone is great theatre. If Occupy were capable of taking themselves less seriously, a good idea might be to respond with a parody of their own, of the black bloc arriving at a given protest, and smashing everything up. Not only might it serve to actually discredit the black bloc in more serious terms, but it would prove that the movement actually had a sense of humour.

It won't happen, though. Some of the people I've seen here who are supportive of the movement, are almost as bad as the people who are opposed to it, in the sense that they are completely single minded. There's no honesty about the blatant Marxist radicalism, among other things.

Occupy Everything is an anti-capitalist platform—established in 2009—dedicated to militant research, critical pedagogy and public practices that include media interventions, feminism and autonomous operations. OE is collectively-operated and dedicated to contributing to the emerging global culture of resistance.

That is from occupyeverything.org, and if it isn't an admission of blatant Trotskyism, then I'm not sure what is. "The Fortune 500 must burn, and we, for one, welcome our new militant lesbian overlords."

reply to post by petrus4




I wish OWS would go away really. They failed. We need something new.

Not only sis they fail but they made it harder for the next movement which will be forced to endure comparisons to OWS.

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by Germanicus

David N. Bossie (born 1965 in Boston, Massachusetts)[1] is an American political activist. Since 2000 he has been President and Chairman of conservative advocacy organization Citizens United.[2]

en.wikipedia.org...

Looks like a fair and balanced doco

and unafraid

Occupy Unmasked isn't intended to be complementary towards the movement. You can see that purely by watching the trailer, and it isn't a conspiracy. That doesn't, however, mean that I'm going to take that exclusively on board, and have only a negative perception of the group.

Again, this is another example of either/or logic. It's only acceptable to be 100% in agreement with something, or 100% in disagreement. There is no middle ground.

If I was going to make a movie about Occupy, I'd include both the incredibly positive slides I saw from Zucotti Park, and the utopian aspect, and how brutally and unfairly the police acted towards them, both in terms of the main eviction, and afterwards...but I'd also include some of Breitbart's own footage of the black bloc smashing things up.

If both of those elements exist, then leaving either of them out is dishonest.

edit on 13-4-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)

The black bloc are undercover cops inciting riots to justify any and all acts of brutality against peaceful protesters. It's obvious beyond belief yet people eat the lies up.