9-11 The blue & red pill of the Matrix { a comparison}

reply to post by GoodOlDave

I shouldn't have to point out that using unsubstanciated and unprovable allegations to back up other unsubstanciated and unprovable allegations isn't proof. ...

he had documentable connections and funding from Al Qaida

I wasn't setting out to prove anything, merely to illustrate my point that things aren't always what they seem. Even if it appears that 19 arab terrorists did that, one has to ask who pulled their strings? Tim Osman/Osama Bin Laden? Who pulled his strings. Why did his family get to fly out of the country when everyone else was grounded and stranded? where does the funding to Al Qaida really come from? And, for the record, the claims about Bush were very substantiated. This is the second time I'll suggest you read Russ Baker's "Family of Secrets," a very well researched book from which those facts about Bush and Oswald come.

The difference between a genuine researcher and a believer of the conspiracy faith is that a researcher listens to the facts of both sides of the issue to see who has the better credibility, while a conspiracy theoriest wants to convince others of what he/she believes regardless of what the facts are. For one thing, I think I've met only two people her who actually read the 9/11 commission report, which is astonishing seeing this is the natural starting poitn of anyone interested in the events of 9/11. Even if you believe it's a lie it's your obligation to know what the lies actually are. So tell me, did YOU read the 9/11 commission report?

Yes and I found it to be so full of holes it's not even funny. That is why I refer to it as the Ommision Report, because it is as much about the questions that weren't asked and the avenues that weren't explored as it is about what was.

I would suggest that there is a spectrum with the hardcore OS'er on one side and the hardcore CT'er on the other with various blends in between. A person is generally going to be one orientation or another despite their position on the spectrum. Each person is going to interpret the data based on their pre-existing notions and will find different things to be credible based on their orientation. Unfortunately this means that both sides are guilty of a blindness that does not see the valid points of the other side. This is strongly tied in to one's worldview and the cognitive dissonance inherent in something that would majorly change that worldview (which is something that generally people psychologically protect against because of that.) The implications of the OS being a lie or of the world being run by as you say "Satan worshipping numerologists" goes far beyond one event and challenges everything that people think they know about the world and so they don't even go there or even ridicule it because to accept that even some of it is true is to realize they have been living a lie in some respects.

The difference in the true researcher and the believer of any faith (OS or CT) is that the true researcher steps outside of their perceptual box and determines credibility on it's own merit, not just because it agrees or disagrees with a particular mindset.

I think, moving this in the direction of the OP, that the dark hats intended for 9/11 to be a consolidation of control, which in some ways it has as it (as a historical event) is responsible for the patriot act and a decade of continuous war on 2 fronts. But I think it backfired as well because a more aware populace began to question the OS and for many, the event became a search for broader truths. I think that this is part of the reason that the CT interpretation of 9/11 (though there are many ideas along the spectrum) is so vociferously argued against because it is a chink in the armor.

We agree that there was a cover-up. We disagree as to the nature of that cover up. You have argued that it was a cover up of gross negligence but things like the disregarding of the Phoenix memo, the disregarding of ABLE Dangers info, and the disregarding of other intelligence has already come out. I think that the cover up is more along the lines of the true nature of the shadow government and the geopolitical landscape, especially when the intelligence communities tactics of funding and encouraging particular groups is well known, including helping develop the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan to fight against the Russians in the 80's, from which Al Qaeda has directly come.

Incidentally, I haven't always been a Conspiracy Theorist, it has been an evolution in awareness that has come from research in many different areas. For me it was many years spent in study of Occult and Esoteric topics mostly from a spiritual perspective. This led to membership in several "secret societies" I never progressed to the "top of the pyramid" so to speak but that was never my intention, it has always been about the information for me. Only over time and a breadth of study did I start to see the truth in many conspiracy theories (as well as being able to discern the truth from intentionally placed BS as my studies were balanced with degrees in psychology with and undergrad focus on perception psychology) When 9/11 happened I already had a solid awareness of the world and methods of the dark hat illuminati and noted their fingerprints right away. And there is a big difference between perceiving something erroneously based on one's perspective and perceiving things for what they really are or aren't. I didn't need anybody like Dylan Avery or Alex Jones to tell me what to think about the OS.

Originally posted by pupetmaster
reply to post by hooper

 

And PSHEA38, i think September clues is dis info. There were planes and they did hit the buildings. Pentagon was most likely a bunker buster missile disguised as a plane. The pilots are saying no commercial can technically fly at the speeds recorded on the black box data recorder. And the final turn is impossible for experienced pilots of 30 years, let alone a terrorist pilot who took 1 year of Cessna classes.

It's all part of the illusion. How were 19 terrorists able to go through security with box cutters? How did they overpower the planes with box cutters? How are some of the 19 hijackers still alive ? How was it that they reported having they identity stolen (similarly to the recent Mossad hit-squad in Dubai) and that the official story hasn't changed. The blue pill is deeply engrained. AS Jean beaudillard would say, the real doesn't matter anymore, because the hyper-real replaced it, the real is but a copy without an original.

You are mistaken. The simulation has many layers of illusion.
www.911research.dsl.pipex.com...

Take the red pill man.
After this, I cannot see how you cannot.

This is always an interesting topic.

reply to post by bradagilah


got a better one to play ask people outside of the usa what time they heard about 9-11 then take away how many hours differency to ny . go on you know you want to . its been my favourate for years now .

reply to post by PageAlaCearl

The "Matrix" was a movie, you don't have proof that it's not more that a movie.

You're right. I can't prove a negative - ergo, you must be right. What other movies are more than just movies? Maybe - "Night of the Living Dead"? "Steel Magnolias"? How about "Harry Potter"? That explores an alternative reality. Maybe you're really a kid wizard at Hogworths!!!

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by PageAlaCearl

 

The "Matrix" was a movie, you don't have proof that it's not more that a movie.

You're right. I can't prove a negative - ergo, you must be right. What other movies are more than just movies? Maybe - "Night of the Living Dead"? "Steel Magnolias"? How about "Harry Potter"? That explores an alternative reality. Maybe you're really a kid wizard at Hogworths!!!

You're right you can't prove that nor can you prove 9/11 wasn't an inside job no matter how hard you try after 800+ posts only in 9/11 forums - that's gotta get old posting on one topic over and over and over and over and over and over....

reply to post by PageAlaCearl

You're right you can't prove that nor can you prove 9/11 wasn't an inside job no matter how hard you try after 800+ posts only in 9/11 forums

What I can prove vs. what you think....like they say - you can lead a horse to water.....

- that's gotta get old posting on one topic over and over and over and over and over and over....

Nope. You see, when you guys are only limited by your imagination and have no obligation to reality then the sky's the limited with "theories". More often then not is the same old same old, but every now and then you find some new gem of delusion.

If i can google "explosions on 9-11: youtube" and in the first video 12 seconds in a firefighter early in the day on 9-11 says that the lobby exploded ... how are people thinking the planes did this?
www.youtube.com...

WHat about this guy a HERO of 9-11 who saved many lives on that day.
He says the basement floors exploded upwards and his testimony never made it in the 9-11 commission report.
www.youtube.com...

O yeah, philip Zelikow, Director of the 9-11 commission was also an expert in creating myths!!! Talk about illusions and simulated reality.
After being informed of the Department of Defense's Able Danger project by U.S. Army Lieutenant Colonel Anthony Shaffer, he failed to have the 9/11 Commission investigate, despite the promise that the Commission would investigate all 9/11 related topics. Able Danger was not included in the Commission's final report. In 2005 and 2006 the Chairman of the House Select Intelligence Committee, Rep. Curt Weldon, publicized Shaffer's allegations in public statements and hearings.
While at Harvard, he worked with Ernest May and Richard Neustadt on the use, and misuse, of history in policymaking. They observed, as Zelikow noted in his own words, that "contemporary" history is "defined functionally by those critical people and events that go into forming the public's presumptions about its immediate past. The idea of 'public presumption'," he explained, "is akin to William McNeill's notion of 'public myth' but without the negative implication sometimes invoked by the word 'myth.' Such presumptions are beliefs (1) thought to be true (although not necessarily known to be true with certainty), and (2) shared in common within the relevant political community.


"Odd circumstances & facts about 9-11"
killtown.911review.org...

Sibel edmonds deposition (bush administration used state secret privilege to keep her from talking for years. She is proof that osama was CIA from start to finish.
He never knew it himself.
vimeo.com...

JFK movie;
David Ferrie: Who did the president, who killed Kennedy, f**k man! It's a mystery! It's a mystery wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma! The f**kin' shooters don't even know! Don't you get it?

The Jim garrison Tapes
www.blinkx.com...

Scientific evidence (peer reviewed sciences journals) about the inside-job controlled demolition theory;
n April 2008, Jones, along with four other authors, published a letter in The Bentham Open Civil Engineering Journal, titled, 'Fourteen Points of Agreement with Official Government Reports on the World Trade Center Destruction'.[36] In August 2008, Jones, along with Kevin Ryan and James Gourley, published a peer-reviewed article in The Environmentalist, titled, 'Environmental anomalies at the World Trade Center: Evidence for energetic materials'.[37] In April 2009, Jones, along with Niels H. Harrit and 7 other authors published a paper in The Open Chemical Physics Journal, titled, 'Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe'.



How Could They Plant Bombs in the World Trade Center?

Recently, a smart, accomplished person told me:

"I don't believe that the World Trade Center could have been destroyed by controlled demolition . . . how could they have possibly planted bombs without anyone seeing them?"

In fact, there were plenty of opportunities to plant bombs in the World Trade Center. For example:

Bomb-sniffing dogs were inexplicably removed from the Twin Towers five days before 9-11

The Twin Towers had been evacuated a number of times in the weeks preceding 9/11

There was a power down in the Twin Towers on the weekend before 9/11, security cameras were shut down, and many workers ran around busily doing things unobserved.

And -- as an interesting coincidence -- a Bush-linked company ran security at the trade centers, thus giving it free reign to the buildings.

These are just a few of the known, public examples of opportunities to plant bombs. There were undoubtedly many additional opportunities available to skilled operatives."

In addition to these facts, demolition and building collapse experts have purportedly raised the possibility of "explosive tenants" -- i.e. tenants in the World Trade Centers who planted bombs in their own, rented space.

Anyone remember ZIM Israeli Shipping company that broke their lease at a cost of 50,000$ a few weeks before 9-11 ? State-owned & mossad linked? Perhaps.

The official story, which is also a conspiracy theory, has not been proven beyond reasonable doubt in a court of law, but instead crammed into reality in the court of public opinion.

Did anyone say reality TV ?
Check!

Reality is only a question of perception. Paradigms are studied in sociology for example where it is explained that science is a paradigm. A world view. Physics and quantum physics also explores many area of reality as discussed before on this thread by the people actually staying on topic.

Santa claus, tooth fairy
Heaven, Hell
God
April fool's joke
Aliens
9-11 JFK / pearl harbor / USS liberty / Lavon affair / Northwoods

Treasury secretary Paul O'neil publicly stated that the Bush administration had been planning a war against IRAQ long before 9-11. The FBI said that the phone call from Barbara Olson to her husband Ted Olson (solicitor general, Highest legal representative of the state) could not have been made. A scientific study on the possibility of cell phone calls at that altitude was published by a Canadian scientist stating that the probability of 2 successful cell phones calls by Barbara is slim to none.
globalresearch.ca...

in the case of 9-11, in my opinion, a portion of history was written by reality on TV. Again, Hollywood Dejavue.
Except for people in new york, everyone else experienced 9-11 on TV only and through the official 9-11 commission report.

WAKE UP NEO. Knock knock!

In zelikow's own words;
"The idea of 'public presumption, Such presumptions are beliefs (1) thought to be true (although not necessarily known to be true with certainty), and (2) shared in common within the relevant political community."

Again nothing was proven in a court of law, only in the court of public opinion.
Much easier for the winners to write history in my opinion.

reply to post by pupetmaster


yip im one of those people who watched it on tv that day . thing is it would have been 6.40 am in america ( new york ) at the time . uk resident i know many many many people of sound mind who saw it even earlier at 9 ish am 4 am ny . there might be something in that green screen idea by www. wellaware1 yip its a mystery

Originally posted by stirling
TheOklahoma attack was the red pill overdose for me.......
Ive been over amped on the reds ever since.....i find them buried everywhere now.....
9/11 started out out with me thinking terrorist attack, right up to the moment the building collapsed (tower #1)
The two other collapses both just reinforced the red pill freak out.......
Ever since a sublevel of my mind has not stopped turning over and over the whole sceario looking for a way out for myself, and for the people.
Talk about trepidation....i can see that NAZI frieght train speeding down onto an american public tied to the tracks by patriotism, and apathy and too blind to see that the freedom they prize so highly is about to be usurped totally by
a system of totalitarian control augmented with high tech, and enforced by mind controlled zombies.

You do know the choosen color of thr Bolshevicks don't you?
Same as the red star, hammer and scickle of the Isreali Communist party.

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by PageAlaCearl

 

You're right you can't prove that nor can you prove 9/11 wasn't an inside job no matter how hard you try after 800+ posts only in 9/11 forums

What I can prove vs. what you think....like they say - you can lead a horse to water.....

- that's gotta get old posting on one topic over and over and over and over and over and over....

Nope. You see, when you guys are only limited by your imagination and have no obligation to reality then the sky's the limited with "theories". More often then not is the same old same old, but every now and then you find some new gem of delusion.

Hi Hoop
Looks like you overdosed on the red pill.
Go ask Alice.
Got anything to say constructive about the stars and flags of the 911 truthers lately???
cheers ljb
PS a job is an obligation

USA can't find Osama Bin Laden for 10 Years +

Yet 3 weeks before 9-11,

a CNN reporter and his camera crew interviewed him.
The CNN reporter, not Osama, said that he would attack the USA & Israel within 3 weeks.
www.youtube.com...

They must of managed to interview him again between Sept 11th & Sept 16th to get this following statement
"Bin Laden says he wasn't behind attacks"
September 16, 2001
articles.cnn.com...:US

Good thread on Lack of public evidence of his death (OSama)
www.abovetopsecret.com...

WAKKKEEEEE UUUUUUUPPPPPPPP!

reply to post by longjohnbritches


Bro, It's called private messages.

The "full-time" official story "bloggers" are really active on my thread i see.

Civil & logic-based debate as requested in my OP-ED.
Wish you could add your own thoughts, not one-linners like

wooooooaaaa braaa take more pills dawggg....

reply to post by pupetmaster


This 9/11 vid requires several viewings to digest the information which is a slam dunk on 9/11 being a CIA conspiracy. I posted my own Actual Matrix Plan expose soon after 9/11 nonduality.com...

reply to post by pupetmaster

How Could They Plant Bombs in the World Trade Center? Recently, a smart, accomplished person told me: "I don't believe that the World Trade Center could have been destroyed by controlled demolition . . . how could they have possibly planted bombs without anyone seeing them?" In fact, there were plenty of opportunities to plant bombs in the World Trade Center. For example: Bomb-sniffing dogs were inexplicably removed from the Twin Towers five days before 9-11 The Twin Towers had been evacuated a number of times in the weeks preceding 9/11 There was a power down in the Twin Towers on the weekend before 9/11, security cameras were shut down, and many workers ran around busily doing things unobserved. And -- as an interesting coincidence -- a Bush-linked company ran security at the trade centers, thus giving it free reign to the buildings. These are just a few of the known, public examples of opportunities to plant bombs. There were undoubtedly many additional opportunities available to skilled operatives."

Thank you. These facts are part of the narrative that effectively make the "when could they plant bombs" question seem like a dumb one. There were plenty of opportunities. The bomb sniffing dog recall is my favorite. Damn coincidences.

reply to post by geobro

yip im one of those people who watched it on tv that day . thing is it would have been 6.40 am in america ( new york ) at the time . uk resident i know many many many people of sound mind who saw it even earlier at 9 ish am 4 am ny . there might be something in that green screen idea by www. wellaware1 yip its a mystery

Interesting. You must be mistaken though. Everyone knows that it happened at 9am in New York. Perhaps the time conversion threw you off.

Originally posted by pupetmaster
USA can't find Osama Bin Laden for 10 Years +


Good thread on Lack of public evidence of his death (OSama)
www.abovetopsecret.com...

WAKKKEEEEE UUUUUUUPPPPPPPP!

edit on 16-4-2012 by pupetmaster because: (no reason given)

Have you considered the possibility raised in my posts from that thread here?,

continued in it's own thread here www.abovetopsecret.com....
(see the end of the thread to get to the heart of matters).

obama osama was a character created to play the role of the villain
in the 9/11 special effects CG blockbuster, who only 'appeared' shortly before 9/11
and disappeared shortly afterwards.

Have you considered this possibility (almost a certainty in my eyes after having
gone through the whole thread) concerning jfk?
The "JFK-MURDER" was a STAGED EVENT / JFK wasn't "KILLED" on 11/22/63!

It slots right in, no? And this to be swiftly followed by the moonlanding fakery hoaxes
before the decade was out. 9/11 was just a continuation of their tried and trusted
methods of deceptions.

What else, eh? Nuclear weaponry, pearl harbour, 7/7, the space shuttle and ISS
programmes etc. etc. You had better be prepared to believe it.

The simualation is so broad and deep, that a whole bottle of red pills is more in order.

reply to post by pshea38


Hi pshea

Perhaps Northwoods and the USS LIBERTY were in your links??
Levon Affair??
I love the way you construct your threads.
BAzingA
the best ljb

reply to post by pshea38


Interesting theory.

Personally, As open minded as i am, my view & evidence encountered thus far in my research has not lead me to such conclusions. I'm open to the possibility that everything is possible (infinity is a real mathematical concept).

I do have an NY time article stating that when Obama studied at Columbia school, and Zbigniew Brzezinski became his mentor (CFR and much more), he was sent overseas on assignments for the Business Business International Corporation, a know policy arm of the CIA at the time.

I respectfully disagree with your opinion however I'm willing to explore this idea in your thread about the topic.