Looking for a plausible scientific explanation

Hi there,

I recently came across the following story:

External Link to story 1

External Link to story 2

"Since this morning I have observed the phenomenon, half of the icons are already cleaned. First a red colour appears which turns golden (..) You can see the icons clearing up from top to bottom," Father Malinov said.

An AFP journalist on the scene said that it did look like the icons were getting brighter as she observed them.

The topic is NOT creationism v's evolution. I'm not expressing a view in support of creationism or evolution. I'm merely looking for a plausible scientific explanation for the event under the assumption that the reports of eyewitnesses and clergy are true.

reply to post by phalanx001


the washington post link appears to not be working.
an interesting thing this invisible fresco cleaner.

regards fakedirt

Originally posted by fakedirt
reply to post by phalanx001

 

the washington post link appears to not be working.
an interesting thing this invisible fresco cleaner.

regards fakedirt

Links appear to be fixed now

I'm going to say...Maybe a light effect from nearby windows?

Cool find though. Wish there was better pics in the article.

Unfortunately, I have absolutely nothing to add on the scientific front, but I would not be surprised to hear a few of the more faithful chime in. I would be just as interested as the OP to hear what it may be,

I suppose it is impossible to know if this is a phenomenon without the hand ofman, unless they had CCTV permanently trained on the murals over the weekend

the scientific explanation is that someone repainted them.

Originally posted by blueorder
I suppose it is impossible to know if this is a phenomenon without the hand ofman, unless they had CCTV permanently trained on the murals over the weekend

News stories in Macedonian are reporting that the general public has been allowed to visit the church and stay overnight - an offer a couple of eye witnesses appear to have taken up. Their report appear to be on par with the news stories. Also it is reported that the event occured during sunday mass, last sunday, in front of a number of eye witnesses.

You are 100% right though, without a modern scientific investigative team it would be hard to confirm whether the murals are indeed cleaning/restoring themselves or whether someone is working overtime at night

People's awareness is increasing. In this screwed up world they are starting to look closely at what they consider good. If you look at something good when you desire to be good it draws your focus. Nothing wrong with that.

Or possibly the increase of people looking at them are all breathing. The added moisture in the air also increased airborne enzymes in the air and these enzymes are actually cleaning them.

Yesterday’s miracles are todays scientific commonplace.

I highly doubt a supenatural occurance here, I would think it more clandestine (I like that word better than sneeky) human answer.
Conversely, the possibility that the supreme being, of this particular faith, or one of his/hers/its angels would clean a fresco in a church, knowing that it would get all sorts of attention, causing countless believers to pray, worship, extoll, and otherwise pump up the ego of that supreme being leaves me dumbfounded and in disbelief.

I hope that God knows we, his "children" as we are know, do not need a clean fresco right now. We need to be saved from the evil that is slowly killing us all.
So please, if there is a god in the traditional understanding, HELP US! start with our corrupt goverment.

This comes from a non-religious agnostic.

Originally posted by mytheroy
I'm going to say...Maybe a light effect from nearby windows?

Cool find though. Wish there was better pics in the article.

edit on 10-4-2012 by mytheroy because: (no reason given)

Not consistent with the reports. They state that the 'golden coloured' component/parts initially turn to red colour and then appear to go bright gold ... Assuming the human factor is rulled out, is it possible for the (gold) paint to potentially react with the built up wax and smoke (from candles over many years) and cause it all to melt away ... If so, question is why now as opposed to last year or the year before that? Apparently there was one other occurrence of a similar event in the 1930's in Russia.

Here are some pics

Originally posted by phalanx001
I'm merely looking for a plausible scientific explanation for the event under the assumption that the reports of eyewitnesses and clergy are true.

edit on 10/4/2012 by phalanx001 because: Fixed links

Soo...your looking to be lied to?? o.O

Originally posted by grubblesnert
I highly doubt a supenatural occurance here, I would think it more clandestine (I like that word better than sneeky) human answer.
Conversely, the possibility that the supreme being, of this particular faith, or one of his/hers/its angels would clean a fresco in a church, knowing that it would get all sorts of attention, causing countless believers to pray, worship, extoll, and otherwise pump up the ego of that supreme being leaves me dumbfounded and in disbelief.

I hope that God knows we, his "children" as we are know, do not need a clean fresco right now. We need to be saved from the evil that is slowly killing us all.
So please, if there is a god in the traditional understanding, HELP US! start with our corrupt goverment.

This comes from a non-religious agnostic.

Well it looks like my open request for God to work on our corrupt goverment and drop the fresco fiasco has gone unfulfilled. I, just for the hell of it, turned on Fox News. What did I see right off the bat? GW Bush has been let off the leash by his handlers, commenting on politices, appearing on Fox News interviews and being recieved graciously..
Oh well..............

Originally posted by phalanx001

Not consistent with the reports. They state that the 'golden coloured' component/parts initially turn to red colour and then appear to go bright gold ... Assuming the human factor is rulled out,

edit on 10/4/2012 by phalanx001 because: (no reason given)

"Since this morning I have observed the phenomenon, half of the icons are already cleaned. First a red colour appears which turns golden (..) You can see the icons clearing up from top to bottom," Father Malinov said.

The only person that said this is the priest of the church himself, so he's hardly an independent witness, seeings as the "miracle" is drawing thousands of people to the church and no doubt stuffing his donation boxes to bursting point

The other witness I can see quoted said

An AFP journalist on the scene said that it did look like the icons were getting brighter as she observed them.

Which is a far less peculiar claim and could be explained by it getting lighter outside as she looked at them.

Unless theres more evidence to look at then theres nothing to really explain from a scientific point of view apart from the psychology of mass hysteria and suggestion.

Originally posted by WatcherMan

Originally posted by phalanx001
I'm merely looking for a plausible scientific explanation for the event under the assumption that the reports of eyewitnesses and clergy are true.

Soo...your looking to be lied to?? o.O

Not at all. I thought most would suggest a human cause. By that logic, I was pre-emptively ruling out the obvious explanation in order to make room for a potential scientific explanation.

Originally posted by lonewolf10
the scientific explanation is that someone repainted them.

Im no expert but apparently the frescoe restoration process (painting/cleaning, etc) is a lengthy one - due to the age and delicate nature of the frescoes. The alleged changes are said to be occurring in much shorter timeframes ...

Ok, the scientific team has taken samples and will publish their findings in the near future.

Yu can visit the follwoing link for a photo, but the write up will probably not mean much to the majority as it is in a foreign language: kanal5.com.mk...

Ok, the first scientific explanation is in: condensation cause by an unusually wet season in that part of the country. Thus, resulting in excess water on the walls, washing away the built up smoke and dust off the frescoes. Seems like a plausible explanation that puts this one to rest