Moon Landing Hoax - The Space Suit

reply to post by longjohnbritches

How can I it was edited out.

Click HERE. Read. Click 2 when you finish page 1.

Originally posted by toocoolnc
reply to post by eriktheawful

 

No I'm not saying that. You can go get information from any space agency today. However, the information (tracking information) that you want there were only 2 official space agencies in existence at that time: NASA and the Soviets.

One you don't trust, and the other, you can't read Russian (or said you can't get it translated). As for who else did tracking and observing for Apollo during the time

Thank You! A reasonable answer!

And i did manage to get it translated and found that the source is from a magazine and not the soviet space agency nor the soviet government. So i dont class this information as official. The information is from an indipendent source of whom i cannot obtain any background data on: E.P.Molotova

You could verify the information if you really wanted an "official source." You now know which soviet tracking station tracked Apollo. If you wanted official confirmation all you have to do is email Roscosmos for confirmation. You won't do it though because that's not actually what you want, you just want to fish for an arbitrary and meaningless excuse not to believe any evidence presented to you, despite the fact that multiple independent observers DID track Apollo successfully, both optically and with radio

Originally posted by longjohnbritches
LEO is a LEO test ya know. there is no celistial body.

So what?

No moon gravity to deal with,

Do you have any idea how completely and totally ridiculous you sound. Look folks, look, the best this hoax believer can do is claim the spacesuits wouldn't work because of lunar gravity! There is no reason, I repeat, NO reason why that would be a problem. No sane person would even fall for that, pardon the pun.

no moon launch to CM test.

So what? They tested rendezvous on Apollo 10! It's no different, all you have to do is launch in the right heading while the orbital plane is overhead. Just because it's too complicated for you to understand doesn't mean it's too complicated for the rest of us.

No stopping against a solid stationary object like a moon.

Again, so what?!

It was all a first test, suits and all.

Now you're just lying. You already admitted to knowing they tested the suits ahead of time. Yes, in earth orbit. There's no reason at all why lunar gravity would present a problem.

However, the Soviets had been sending unmanned spacecraft to the Moon since 1959, and "during 1962, deep space tracking facilities were introduced at IP-15 in Ussuriisk and IP-16 in Evpatoria, while Saturn communication stations were added to IP-3, 4 and 14", the latter having a 100 million km range. The Soviet Union tracked the Apollo missions at the Space Transmissions Corps, which was "fully equipped with the latest intelligence-gathering and surveillance equipment".

That is from a Wiki link on Apollo moon hoax theories.

The source is Russia's prominent cosmonaut, first man to walk in space, Aleksey Leonov. Though I link an interview from rt.com/news, Published: 21 July, 2009, 22:51
Edited: 15 September, 2010, 11:31, Leonov died in 2011.

I was the lunar team commander and in charge of the group training. We had three crews on the team altogether. So, when the Americans announced their mission, we all gathered at this military base. We sat there, holding our fingers crossed. We wished all the luck to the guys. We personally knew them, and they knew us. Radars were monitoring the whole process. When the ship landed, their external cameras began to show the surroundings. We saw it all. Then the hatch opened, the next camera turned on (they really had thought it all through). Armstrong goes down the steps. The last step was about 50 cm above the Moon's surface. He was moving his foot carefully. We all froze, waiting to see what was going to happen next. He jumped off the step, then bounced and began to walk. He had an antenna that transmitted everything to the Earth; we saw everything that they did.

When it got to our journalists, they began to spread all kinds of nonsense. There were two idiots showing pictures of the Earth taken from the moon. They said they were optics specialists, and apparently it was impossible to take such a detailed picture of the globe with all the continents and even rivers. The funny thing is we ourselves took this picture from our unmanned craft, using the camera made by one of Moscow's optical labs.

RT: The US is often accused of not actually going to the moon and faking the images from there. What’s your take on that?

AL: That is ignorance, total ignorance on the part of those who say so. These people don't know anything about technology. Or they just seek popularity.

From the mouth of a prominent Russian Cosmonaut.

Encyclopedia Astronautica on Soviet Space Tracking Systems.

Lunar and interplanetary programs brought new tracking requirements. IP-14 in Shchelkovo was first upgraded for the lunar program with the Kama-E distance measuring system. IP-41E (Simeyz) and IP-42E (Moscow) later received the same upgrade. NIP-16 at Yevpatoriya was equipped to handle interplanetary probes. The Pluton system sent commands to the probe, while the Saturn system received data. Saturn complexes were built at NIP-3, 4, 14, and 15. This consisted of a 16 m antennae with a 100 million km range. The RS-10-2M antenna was used, plus at NIP-10 the TNA-400. The Pluton Command-Tracking System was installed only at NIP-16.

Development of the Tracking and Control System

The basis for the modernised system was the draft project for a universal command-tracking complex for military space systems. By 1966 nine systems were operated in the KIK. The control centre had 18 military units with 6,936 staff, including 1,176 officers and 770 employees. Specialisations were created in the second half of the 1960's with the KIS (Command-Tracking Systems).

The Soviets were very capable of tracking to the moon and beyond in the 60's.

Apollo 8 was extensively tracked, Many reports were collected in an article in the March 1969 issue of Sky and Telescope, Optical Observations of Apollo 8" by Harold B. Liemon (Geo-Astrophysics Laboratory, Boeing Scientific Research Laboratories), pp. 156-160.

Various professional observatories were notified in advance, with phone updates as needed, of the coordinates of Apollo 8 at observable times. As it neared the Moon and later returned, the spacecraft appeared against the stars of Aquarius and Pisces.

Parking orbits ranged from 165-190 km in mean altitude, at inclinations 32-33 degrees. The first post-launch sightings are represented by a spectacular series of predawn photographs, from the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory (SAO) station on Maui (courtesy Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory).

As the spacecraft began its climb outward from Earth, several amateur astronomers in the UK photographed a fuel dump from the expended S-IVB stage shortly after 18:00 UT on December 21, 1968. This event was seen, without prior notification, by F. Kent, Alan Heath, and M.J. Oates, who reports catching the cloud visually while getting off a bus. H.R. Hatfield made several tracking photographs. The accompanying photograph is by M.J. Hendrie. "At Colchester, England, M.J. Hendrie took a three-minute exposure beginning at 18:16 Universal time on december 21, showing blowout of excess fuel from the third stage.

In a 2003 letter, Mr. Hendrie notes that one of his 14 pictures was taken almost simultaneously with one of the SAO tracking-camera pictures from San Fernando, Spain, so that the spacecraft was displaced against the background stars by parallax at a range of about 50,000 km.

From the Spanish Naval Observatory (Observatorio de la Armada) in Cadiz, Oscare Rodriguez has found the following image of an S-IVB fuel dump. It's filed as Apollo 8, although a date scrawled on the back is more ambiguous at this point. The Apollo 8 dump was well seen from Spain. The May 1969 article in Sky and Telescope notes that the S-IVB vented fuel (liquid hydrogen) and oxidizer (liquid oxygen) separately in perpendicular directions, which appears in the two distinct clouds.

Reports of Apollo 8 sightings came from Pic du Midi Observatory (in the French Pyrenees); the Catalina Station of the Lunar and Planetary Laboratory (University of Arizona); Corralitos Observatory, New Mexico, then operated by Northwestern University; McDonald Observatory of the University of Texas; Lick Observatory of the University of California; the U.S. Naval Observatory station at Flagstaff, Arizona; and JPL's Table Mountain Observatory in California.

The first opportunity for large telescopes to view Apollo 8 en route to the moon fell to Pic di Midi. Dr. Michael Moutsoulas reported an initial sightig (near 17:10 UT on December 21) through the finder of the 1.1-meter reflector as an object (magnitude near 10, through clouds) moving eastward near the predicted location of Apollo 8. Moutsoulas moved to the 60-cm refractor because of a drive problem at the reflector, observing a cluster of objects. These were obscured by the appearance of a nebulous cloud, at a time which matches a firing of the service module engine to assure adequate separation from the S-IVB. This event can be traced with the Apollo 8 Flight Journal, noting that launch was at 0751 EST or 12:51 UT on December 21. Thus the Pic du Midi observations started at mission elapsed time 04:19. The separation burn of the srvice propulsion system (SPS) engine was performed at 04:45 elapsed time, matching the French site's observed time.

Lunar and Planetary Laboratory (LPL) pictures from the 1.54m telescope, about eight hours later, showed the spacecraft, S-IVB booster stage, and some panel reflections. "In the Lunar and Planetary Laboratory photograph above, Apollo 8 is the center trail; fainter booster parts are to the left and right. Mid-exposure with the 61-inch reflector was at 2:00:54 UT on the 22nd" [1]. "At left, on the 23rd at 2:05:10 UT, the stars trailed as Apollo 8 was tracked... The S-IVB is below the bright star at lower left."[1] These photos used by permission of Elizabeth Roemer and the Lunar and Planetary Laboratory.

On the same nights, H. Ables, J. Christy, R.L. Walker, Jr., and J. Wray used the 61-inch astrometric reflector of the US Naval Observatory in Arizona to observe Apollo 8.

Likewise, on each night during translunar coast, TV images using an image orthicon were obtained by resident director Justus Dunlap and staff members at Corralitos Observatory (near Las Cruces, New Mexico, then operated by Northwestern University). They obtained over 400 short-exposure intensified images, giving very accurate locations for the spacecraft.

Anthony Fairall and Daniel Weedman observed Apollo 8 on December 23 using the 2.1m Struve telescope at McDonald, from 01:50-2:37 UT.

The Lick observations during the return coast to Earth produced live TV pictures broadcast to West Coast viewers via KQED-TV in San Francisco.

More at Telescopic Tracking of the Apollo Lunar Missions.

Should be 'third party' enough.

reply to post by longjohnbritches

Well I would like to compare NASA's risk assessment for both programs.
You made the rebuttle now back it up. DATA please!!
You do know where to get the RISK ASSESSEMENTS from don't you???

Apparently, you don't. Why not start here?

adsabs.harvard.edu...

reply to post by longjohnbritches

Then you reconize the new method. NO news no protests allowed and no silly space program. They have peed away all the $$$$$$$.

If it was all a big lie, why stop lying?

reply to post by longjohnbritches

Where were you when Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin landed on the moon?
I remember the moon landing very well. I was 34. I was on vacation with my friends, most of whom worked at the Chelomei design bureau. There was also an officer from the KGB. We were in Ukraine, in Chernobyl. It was exactly the place where they later built the [infamous] nuclear power station. The KGB officer had just returned from Africa, and he had brought a small telescope. So we looked through the telescope, but we didn’t see any moon landing! So it was still questionable to us!

Thank you for the belly laugh. A couple of good Soviet citizens are standing around with a friendly KGB agent who hands them a pair of binoculars and says: "I don't see any Americans on the Moon, do you, comrades?" You can't make this stuff up!

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by longjohnbritches

 

Where were you when Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin landed on the moon?
I remember the moon landing very well. I was 34. I was on vacation with my friends, most of whom worked at the Chelomei design bureau. There was also an officer from the KGB. We were in Ukraine, in Chernobyl. It was exactly the place where they later built the [infamous] nuclear power station. The KGB officer had just returned from Africa, and he had brought a small telescope. So we looked through the telescope, but we didn’t see any moon landing! So it was still questionable to us!

Thank you for the belly laugh. A couple of good Soviet citizens are standing around with a friendly KGB agent who hands them a pair of binoculars and says: "I don't see any Americans on the Moon, do you, comrades?" You can't make this stuff up!

Ill bet you russian vodka was involved. In fact depending o how many bottles they drank that might have been the telescope as well.

I posted a long excerpt because my belief is many people do not hit links, and if they do through selective reading may not know where the information is exactly in said link(s). I find it odd that many professional and amateur astronomers tracking on powerful telescopes would have a reason to lie or have faults in their tracking expertise. After all this was the big thing going on at the time, like the unrelated tangent about the Vietnam war. Well I grew up during that war with apprehension of getting a number, my elder brother of 2 years got one, it wasn't called.

Seriously the moon race was second fiddle to us getting a number to be shipped out to war, on our minds. If you were around then body counts were announced nightly on the news, why would they lie about that? Why would there be any reason to lie about space exploration during that time of fear and turmoil? It doesn't cancel out your number does it?

I also find it odd that an illustration of the debate style I posted that gathered 4 stars before deleted was deleted. I see bias there, when hoax perpetrators can say anything they want to unsupported without anything but their biased opinions as sources.

Originally posted by dragonridr
reply to post by longjohnbritches

 

Where were you when Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin landed on the moon?
I remember the moon landing very well. I was 34. I was on vacation with my friends, most of whom worked at the Chelomei design bureau. There was also an officer from the KGB. We were in Ukraine, in Chernobyl. It was exactly the place where they later built the [infamous] nuclear power station. The KGB officer had just returned from Africa, and he had brought a small telescope. So we looked through the telescope, but we didn’t see any moon landing! So it was still questionable to us!

Thank you for the belly laugh. A couple of good Soviet citizens are standing around with a friendly KGB agent who hands them a pair of binoculars and says: "I don't see any Americans on the Moon, do you, comrades?" You can't make this stuff up!

Ill bet you russian vodka was involved. In fact depending o how many bottles they drank that might have been the telescope as well.

Exactly what would they have seen with a 'small telescope'? They were looking at the MOON!

Originally posted by Illustronic
Exactly what would they have seen with a 'small telescope'? They were looking at the MOON!

Quite! Remarkable, isn't it? Somebody brings a spying glass just good enough to watch over the fence and into the neighbor's yard, and they expect to see astronauts footprints on a celestial body with that "telescope"...

I'm pretty speechless, actually, and I thought I've seen it all.

reply to post by DJW001

A couple of good Soviet citizens

Just want to point out this is Sergei Khrushchev speaking in this quote.

ETA: The interview clearly shows the Soviets knew we made it. LJB killed his own theory.

Originally posted by ngchunter

Originally posted by longjohnbritches
LEO is a LEO test ya know. there is no celistial body.

So what?

No moon gravity to deal with,

Do you have any idea how completely and totally ridiculous you sound. Look folks, look, the best this hoax believer can do is claim the spacesuits wouldn't work because of lunar gravity! There is no reason, I repeat, NO reason why that would be a problem. No sane person would even fall for that, pardon the pun.

no moon launch to CM test.

So what? They tested rendezvous on Apollo 10! It's no different, all you have to do is launch in the right heading while the orbital plane is overhead. Just because it's too complicated for you to understand doesn't mean it's too complicated for the rest of us.

No stopping against a solid stationary object like a moon.

Again, so what?!

It was all a first test, suits and all.

Now you're just lying. You already admitted to knowing they tested the suits ahead of time. Yes, in earth orbit. There's no reason at all why lunar gravity would present a problem.

Hi ngc
SO WHAT is all you got.
That is the same attitude I pointed out about NASA's
haste to beat the USSR. Putting the men at risk without testing the systems first.
Why did they first put monkies in space??
The USSR dogs etc.???
Oh they ran out of monkies by the time the movie was made for the moon landing??
Come on son show me a picture of a monkey in a Space suit. come on
ljb

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by Illustronic
Exactly what would they have seen with a 'small telescope'? They were looking at the MOON!

Quite! Remarkable, isn't it? Somebody brings a spying glass just good enough to watch over the fence and into the neighbor's yard, and they expect to see astronauts footprints on a celestial body with that "telescope"...

I'm pretty speechless, actually, and I thought I've seen it all.

If you can't handle how the USSR addressed the question that you all asked.
Then the laugh is on you.
The USSR could only track with a teloscope. duh
So the answer is they could not comfirm one way or the other whether the US ever landed a man on the moon.
case closed back to the suits, tests , monkies and dogs.
ljb

reply to post by longjohnbritches


You display the fact you haven't read any links yet, you also haven't provided any to support your opinions. Alexei Leonov stated plainly that; "We were years from achieving a manned landing on the moon...We would never have done it".

As I said all along, Russia still has not demonstrated powered landing of a manned spacecraft anywhere, to date.

Our retired Space Shuttle has 134 examples outside of Apollo's 6 that we had that capability since July of 1969!

(Their rip off version of the Russian Space Shuttle the Buran, had only one unmanned flight with most of the internal electronics yet to be installed). Look it up.

That particular one was destroyed in a storage collapse. They have another stripped down real version displayed at Gorky Park next to the river, you can see it on Google Maps. Look for the ferris wheel, it's close to that.

page 28

or

hoaxers take an epic beating, lol

Here it is.

Never a manned flight.

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
page 28

or

hoaxers take an epic beating, lol

What do you have to add here on topic?
The thread has collected 58 flags.
that is more than 1 per page
Does ignorance of space suits keep you from posting about them??
Do you know how they HANDLE the poop in the space diapers????
uuggh ljb