How could anyone with an ounce of common sense really believe only planet Earth has life?

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

like I said before, our popular culture, our scientists, and even most schools (although, as you point out, maybe not the Southern U.S. "bible belt" schools) seem to be of the mindset of being very open to the possibility of life elsewhere.

As American Citizens, we must always fight to keep the separation of Church and State alive and well. Here in my own town we have had petitions to allow prayer in school, to ban All Hallows, and to allow religious tracts to be handed out at sporting events. All have failed, so far.

Have you heard of this place?
Creation Museum in Kentucky
These people are nuts, if you ask me.

Originally posted by shake101
...Now if there is intelligent extraterrestrial life, the chances of them being anywhere remotely near our solar system is of course, highly implausible. Maybe even absurd.

You may have a valid point. Consider the fact that any outward signs that we exist at all (our radio waves) are only 100 light years from us, forming a 200 light year bubble around us, which is miniscule compared to the size of the galaxy.

Even if intelligent aliens had some relatively efficient means of space travel, the odds are small that they would just stumble upon us by chance.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

 

like I said before, our popular culture, our scientists, and even most schools (although, as you point out, maybe not the Southern U.S. "bible belt" schools) seem to be of the mindset of being very open to the possibility of life elsewhere.

As American Citizens, we must always fight to keep the separation of Church and State alive and well. Here in my own town we have had petitions to allow prayer in school, to ban All Hallows, and to allow religious tracts to be handed out at sporting events. All have failed, so far.

Have you heard of this place?
Creation Museum in Kentucky
These people are nuts, if you ask me.

As I said before, I think you are stating the exceptions rather than stating the norm. I don't think most average people in the North America., Europe, Japan, or most other "modern" cultures are having the idea that "Earth is the only place life exists" pounded into their heads. Sure -- there are some sections of all cultures (such as the religious extremists like the U.S. "bible belt") where this takes place, but, again, I don't see that as the norm. That's why most people call them "extremists".



As for allowing prayer in school, it all depends on what you specifically mean...

I'm NOT a religious man myself (I do not attend church), but in my opinion the U.S. Constitution allows prayer in school. I'm not talking about the school administration organizing prayer -- that's not right, and should not be allowed according to the constitution. Howver, what I'm saying that schools CAN NOT STOP a person from praying in school if they want to.

Here is the First Amendment to the Constitution:

First Amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Note: The underlining for emphasis is by me

As you can see, it states that the government can NOT make laws prohibiting the free exercise of religion. That is to say, the government (school administrators) can NOT tell a student he or she can't freely exercise their religion by praying.

The constitution says that if a student wants to pray in school, the school can't stop them.

There's a lot of people without an ounce of common sense...
There's not a doubt in my mind that there's life on other planets somewhere out there. IMO, it's likely it's pretty common.

How does everyone feel about basic life existing in the vacuum of space?

Impossible?

Tardigrades surviving the vacuum of space for 10 days
Wiki - Tardigrade

Cyanobacteria surviving in space for 553 days.

I guess reproducing/evolving successfully would be another thing all together though, but if Earth life can survive space even not evolving to do so then why couldn't something else do the same?

I wonder if it's possible an "organic spaceship" could actually evolve in space to become intelligent. Sort of an interstellar horse, lol. Perhaps every inch of the universe (except the obvious extremes) is destined to be filled to the brim with life?

reply to post by RSF77


Survive, not exist. Tardigrades can enter suspended animation, all life functions stop, technically they are dead, re-exposure to water can revive them, (like desert seeds), and there are limits.

Cyanobacteria bacteria;

exude a gel-like covering -- a biopolymer -- that protects them from drying out. All their biological processes slow down, until they are barely, just barely alive, Brown says.
Cyanobacteria are also specially equipped to rid themselves of dangerous compounds, called reactive oxygen species, that are produced when the cells are exposed to UV radiation. They probably developed this ability, Brown says, because they are the only type of bacteria to produce oxygen.

Interstellar space is a great deal more volatile than the places these two life forms visited, temporarily, not to mention the great distance and time that would be involved. Exist no, their protection would likely breakdown in interstellar space.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

Good point about infinity. Here we come upon theories that the universe folds in on itself in a whole new dimensional shift. There in lies the question about what infinity is. There in lies the concept of God. Physics, Philosophy and Religion become one. Life is the quantifier and time is the rule. Chaos and order moving in a linear time frame bound by our own imagination. Remember Carl Sagan? I liked the way he talked.

Considering only a few of you people seemed to pay attention to my first post,
I will give another thought to the rest of you still arguing in here,
This is a thought that your own scientists came up with.

The thought that your intelligence is a consequence of your body,
And that without your body form, you wouldnt have the same kind of intelligence as you currently do.
They are learning this through their quest to create artificial machine intelligence,
Which is why your scientists are focusing on developing anthropomorphic robot bodies
to house the 'learning' computers.

With the thought in mind that your intelligence is a result of your very specific body form,
Then i ask you, Why do you so strongly believe that life that may evolve on incredibly distant planets (With ultimately a completely different body form) could and in most of your opinions; Most likely have, Intelligence equal to or greater than yourselves?

Your people really need to understand how closely your intelligence is linked to your biology.

Originally posted by AmmonSeth
Your people really need to understand how closely your intelligence is linked to your biology.

Is it really? How can we know?

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by AmmonSeth
Your people really need to understand how closely your intelligence is linked to your biology.

Is it really? How can we know?

The capabilities of your platform are what define your ability for intelligence,
It is the way you as humans interact with things that allow you to learn and understand,

As i mentioned before, your own scientists realised this.
It is why they are trying to create anthropomorphic bodies for their 'learning' computers in
the quest to create artificial machine intelligence.
They understand that the machine would need to be able to interact with the world in a similar
fashion to how humans do in order for it to develop an intelligence on a similar level.
Without that ability to interact with the world as you do, It would only ever be intelligently programmed,
As opposed to it actually becoming intelligent.

Originally posted by AmmonSeth
There is also the very distinct possibility that your planet was the FIRST planet in the universe
to have had life evolve into intelligent forms,
You may very well be the earliest intelligent species in the universe.
After all, this has to happen to 1 species, who is to say that this isnt your species?

edit on 31/3/2012 by AmmonSeth because: grammatical error

Yes, because Man & Earth is so incredible special compared to the 9.877.271.711.111.128.671 other planets?

There is no indication whatsoever this is the case and no indication whatsoever for your assumption that "we" were the first, since there are billions of billions of stars, planets etc.

If anything, life is "universal", there must be an universal law that life is being created and its being created whenever the circumstances are in favor for it, here on Earth or on billions of other planets as well.

Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by boymonkey74

 

But... Someone had to be first...who's to say we aren't the first?

Care to elaborate or give ONE (one would be enough!) reason why you would even remotely think "we are first"? This is just the same, uhm, sorry, ignorance and arrogance but just in a milder form. We are NOT special in any way, likelihood even that other civilizations are much, much older than we are.

Originally posted by RSF77
I would say there is evidence that the US government doesn't want people to believe in intelligent, extraterrestrial life. That in itself, to me, is evidence that it might actually exist.

To give "them" some slack, i actually they they are right doing so. Earth is a pile of retards and mankind is simply not ready. You have to REALLY think through the consequences of the certain knowledge that Alien life forms exist...while at the first glance maybe looking like no such a big deal, at the second glance it it.

Dont forget, we are really not any better than we were 2000 years ago, religious freaks and fanatics everywhere, be it in the West or in the Middle East (doesnt matter, the insanity is freely interchangeable) - and there is a likelihood those power structures WONT survive such a new knowledge.

It it NOT only the "simply" knowledge alien life might exist, but ALSO (there is no way around it)...the realization that other beings/life etc. can be MUCH, MUCH more evolved in any way..and this would affect our religions an power structures quite "a bit".

Originally posted by flexy123

Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by boymonkey74

 

But... Someone had to be first...who's to say we aren't the first?

Care to elaborate or give ONE (one would be enough!) reason why you would even remotely think "we are first"? This is just the same, uhm, sorry, ignorance and arrogance but just in a milder form. We are NOT special in any way, likelihood even that other civilizations are much, much older than we are.

Care to give ONE reason why you would even remotely think we ARENT the first?

One reason your scientists put forward for the lonely earth theory was 'the great radio silence'.
They pondered that had intelligent life been evolving (to the same levels as, or greater than, humanity)
Then they decided it was logical to assume that those species would at some point invent and use communication mediums, such as Radio.
The fact that no transmissions of any kind have yet to be detected by humanity makes it lean more toward
the theory that there aren't highly intelligent species out there and that you are indeed the first, or only.

From a human point of view, there is more evidence (or lack of) to support a lonely earth theory
than there is so far to support a vastly populated universe theory.

Moving on however,

As has been pointed out before, The stars and planets are only recently in the stages where they contain
all that is need to create and support life. The minerals, elements, longevity, stability etc.

So it is perfectly acceptable to believe that the first 'intelligent' species are only just coming into play.
Why is it so hard to believe that you may very well be a lonely planet as of yet.
Afterall your planet did have a lot of extraordinary events happen to it to help make the conditions 'just right'
for life to thrive. Cosmic collision, Creation of a large stable moon, Millions of years long ice age allowing
bacteria to grow and release vast amounts of oxygen into the atmosphere, Extinction events wiping out
dominant predators etc.
Not every life containing planet out there would have such an amazing boost as Earth did.
Earth itself is not that special, but the events that happened to & on it are simply amazing.

"How could anyone with an ounce of common sense really believe only planet Earth has life?"

um....have we actually discovered any other life besides planet earth?
that would be one reason....

Originally posted by AmmonSeth
The capabilities of your platform are what define your ability for intelligence,
It is the way you as humans interact with things that allow you to learn and understand,

Does that mean that the intelligence of a mute, dumb and blind person is different from a "normal" person? Or a person with no arms or legs? Or that someone like Stephen Hawking has a different type of intelligence because of his condition?

As i mentioned before, your own scientists realised this.

Yes, you did mention that, but could you please provide some kind of evidence that what you say is true, as that is a subject I haven't followed? Thanks in advance.

Without that ability to interact with the world as you do, It would only ever be intelligently programmed,
As opposed to it actually becoming intelligent.

As far as I know, there isn't yet a definite definition of intelligence, so I don't see any strong AI appearing soon, with or without a body (having senses helps the information gathering, but I don't think it "shapes" the intellingence).

Originally posted by flexy123

Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by boymonkey74

 

But... Someone had to be first...who's to say we aren't the first?

Care to elaborate or give ONE (one would be enough!) reason why you would even remotely think "we are first"? This is just the same, uhm, sorry, ignorance and arrogance but just in a milder form. We are NOT special in any way, likelihood even that other civilizations are much, much older than we are.

...and I'm sure you have this one reason that we aren't? Arrogance? Really? I'll admit to the ignorance, as I ran out of Omniscience Flakes this morning (they're really yummy with strawberries). What we "know" about life elsewhere in the Universe can be engraved on the point of a pin, with room left for "War and Peace". So my statement is just as valid as yours about the likelihood of there being others far older than us... So we'll share the ignorance title equally.

...and saying we might be the first ones, isn't a claim for "special", whatever that means... It's merely saying someone had to be.

www.abovetopsecret.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">Life in the universe

Amen not trying to steal your thunder but that is what I was getting at in my thread. It has to be out there life that is but what if by the time we find them and they find us we no longer exist hence my term "space fossils"

S&F for you my friend!

Cant get it to link stupid iPad but it is a thread called Life in the universe

Originally posted by swampcricket
www.abovetopsecret.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">Life in the universe

Amen not trying to steal your thunder but that is what I was getting at in my thread. It has to be out there life that is but what if by the time we find them and they find us we no longer exist hence my term "space fossils"

S&F for you my friend!

Cant get it to link stupid iPad but it is a thread called Life in the universe

edit on 09/19/2005 by swampcricket because: Cant get it to link

I fixed your link for you (below). You had an extra "http://" on the front end:

Life in the universe

Just life? Because I would sign on for that. Bacteria or a virus or some fossils of bacteria from millions of years ago.

As for as intelligent life.... All the data we have shows there isn't anything out there but dead stars and planets and empty space. Until we can prove otherwise I'll believe intelligent life only exists on Earth. Doesn't have anything to do with religion, has to do with facts and data.

And if the day ever comes where a spaceship parks itself above the White House I'll treat the "visitors" with a healthy amount of speculation and skepticism that any open-minded person should.