Updated: Occupation forces imprison children as young as 10! + Private contractors were implicated

That's true Zach, but those pics from Abu Ghraib weren't just on the 'Net. Also there was testimony about the situation from soldiers who refused orders to partake in the abuses.

true, but i wasnt referring to abu ghardia or w/e. neways i havent seen or heard nething in the "global media" about children in the abu ghardia scandal, and i doubt we will, this was just brought up here and now...

Originally posted by Zach
true, but i wasnt referring to abu ghardia or w/e. neways i havent seen or heard nething in the "global media" about children in the abu ghardia scandal, and i doubt we will, this was just brought up here and now...

You know, it's kind of hard to find. You have to go download a web browser (any will do) and use something called a "search engine." Five minutes of searching will bring you stuff like this:

Is The Scotsman "Global" enough for you?

news.scotsman.com...

Glasgow Sunday Herald:

www.uslaboragainstwar.org...

What about this, from the Washington Post? I hadn't read it before today, but it just seems to confirm what Hersh was talking about (you'll have to read the whole article):

www.washingtonpost.com...


The rape of children sure is a touchy subject. I'm sure nobody here wants to beleive that our soldiers would do that kind of thing. The evidence suggests that they did, and now you are denying it because you don't want to believe it. I guess I can't blame you.

No, wait. I totally can blame you. Pretending it didn't happen is almost as bad as doing it yourself.

wow and ur attacking me because?

for 1. i said i couldnt find nething about it, thx for that.

2. i never stated if i thought there was or wasnt child abuse

3. thx for bring up my previous pts:

one thing were all failing to relise is that we are seeing/hearing this stuff from the internet

for all we know those pics could be payed off or actors, propaganda is obviously running rampet in this war. to be honest some of those pics are like perfect poses one being this one:




i mean ur looking at a pic, all u can tell is what is happining in that one frame, u cannot decide what the story is all about.

i remember a teacher of mine told be that a collage did a study and they found that less then 1% of internet information ie websites etc. are reliable, so 99.x% is unreliable. you have to keep in mind the only people that really know whats going on is the people over there, and they dont even know the whole story, so by immediatly thinking US tourtures children or vise versa by this information, ur still being ignorant.

fanoose is a perfect example, he gets info from aljazeera, thats worse then Fox news or CNN...combined.

now you have suggested by "not beliveing it is almost as bad as commiting it"(child rape) has angered me so much that its almost as much as ur ignorance and gullibleness has, you attacked my views without even knowing them...

i would suggest in the future u keep ur opinions about a fellow ATS member to urself as if im not mistaking such comments are viable for banning.


Edit english




[edit on 9/24/2004 by Zach]

Originally posted by Zach
wow and ur attacking me because?

Because I'm completely drunk with rage at the statement that this is the first anyone is hearing of child rape at Abu Ghraib. It's been a news story for months now. In the "global media" that you are spouting about. I'm attacking you because you are making a mockery of these poor children by writing off the claims that they've been raped BY OUR SOLDIERS because you "can't find anything about it." I am attacking you so that maybe next time you'll try a little harder. It took me five effing minutes to find those sites! NEWS STORIES! Who's the ignorant one here?

2. i never stated if i thought there was or wasnt child abuse

Let's see...what DID you say, then? Here's what I read:

you have to keep in mind the only people that really know whats going on is the people over there, and they dont even know the whole story, so by immediatly thinking US tourtures children or vise versa by this information, ur still being ignorant.

and...

neways i havent seen or heard nething in the "global media" about children in the abu ghardia scandal, and i doubt we will, this was just brought up here and now...

What made me unspeakably angry is your flat out assertion that since "we don't know the whole story" and since you saw these pictures "on the internet" then even talking about it is being ignorant. The thing is, as I showed you, this story isn't just "on the internet" it has been printed in reputable newspapers all over the world and given in testimony as EVIDENCE. Is that propaganda?

The irony is, we hear nothing about this story nowadays, but there's a lot more to back it up than almost any other story I've seen with this much volatility. The reason we're not hearing about it anymore is because people like you don't look into it at all (once again, it took me 5 minutes today, months after the fact). I don't know if it's because of laziness or because you don't want to know the disturbing truth, but either way it really chaps my leathery hide.

now you have suggested by "not beliveing it is almost as bad as commiting it"(child rape) has angered me so much that its almost as much as ur ignorance and gullibleness has, you attacked my views without even knowing them...

If you had said "It didn't happen" and provided me with any semblance to an argument in your favor, I would disagree but allow you to be entitled to your opinion without this anger. My rage at you is directed towards your ignorance and inabilty to think for yourself at this juncture. Allegations of CHILDREN being RAPED and all you can say about it is "could be staged propaganda?" Without even looking for the story first? Damn right I'm angry!

A common theme on these boards, while there are plenty of folks who take the time to research what they write about, are folks who are pessimistic about bad things happening at the hands of our countrymen and government only because they don't take the time to truly look into it. Our entire country is like this, and that's why our politicians on all sides can do whatever they want without being held accountable. I stand by what I said: anyone who refuses to try and find the truth for themselves is complicit and responsible for what happens as a result. I don't care WHAT your views are, Zach; they are obviously uninformed.

i would suggest in the future u keep ur opinions about a fellow ATS member to urself as if im not mistaking such comments are viable for banning.

I was trying to make a point, man. I don't know anything about you except that you didn't do your homework on this one. It made me mad.

The fact that you're angry is good; channel that anger towards changing our world into a place where children don't get raped by U.S. soldiers.

Originally posted by mad Zach
i mean ur looking at a pic, all u can tell is what is happining in that one frame, u cannot decide what the story is all about.



A picture worth thousand word!
And whats happening there? they are cuffing 5 year old girl. and thats enough to tell you they are detained, an answer for those who refused to believe it. Of course thats what i could provide (materials) along with the rest of the reports.


Recognize this photo, The award-winning picture shows a detained Iraqi and his son.




Originally posted by mad Zach
fanoose is a perfect example, he gets info from aljazeera, thats worse then Fox news or CNN...combined.



I wish i could get my info from Aljazeera, its banned sadly from covering the situation there! and thats why they won their credibility. Anyway this report is from the Sunday Herald. . . there isn't any link to Aljazeera here in this thread, Aljazeera at least brings the real situation and the casualties from both side there which the bush administration doesn't like, Fox/CNN don't bring a thing at all! and thats why they lost their credibility.

Some sites/reports to refresh your memory:





(video)
www.swr.de...
A report run on the German TV program Report Mainz in July on the same topic included an interview with US Sgt. Samuel Provance. Sgt. Provance was one of the original whistleblowers who said US troops were abusing prisoners at Abu Ghraib. Provance has since been transferred to Germany. He says he was ordered by his superiors not to talk to the media any more. In May, Provance said he was told by Army officials that he may be prosecuted because his statements were "not in the national interest."

Provance, however, did talk to the German TV crew about the treatment of children at Abu Ghraib. He alleges that children were sometimes abused in order to force their parents to give information to coalition authorities. Provance spoke about one incident in which he says he witnessed this happening with a 16 year-old boy.








IRINnews.org, an information website run by the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, reports that "access to child detainees is difficult and human rights groups are concerned about their welfare ...." An IRIN reporter visited the Karkh prison in Baghdad, where the warden told him that there are 150 children between the ages of nine and 18 " are being held there on any given day, both those convicted of crimes and those awaiting trial."
The IRIN story also quotes US Lt. Col. Barry Johnson, a spokesman for the Office of the Deputy Commanding General for Detainee Operations, who says that 58 children are being held at Abu Ghraib as "security detainees."








www.pastpeak.com...
In a speech on July 7, Hersh confirmed rumors that children and women were raped on camera at Abu Ghraib prison. His remarks, made during an address before the American Civil Liberties Union, implied that he had personally seen some of the footage.

"And basically what happened is that those women who were arrested with young boys, children, in cases that have been [video] recorded, the boys were sodomized, with the cameras rolling," Hersh told the audience in San Francisco, "and the worst above all of them is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking."

"We have done investigations into accusations of juveniles being abused and raped and can't find anything resembling that," an unnamed "Pentagon official" told the Sunday Herald.

Nevertheless, details of the known child abuse cases are slowly emerging, primarily in the European media. Stories in the mainstream American press have focused on abuse and torture of adults, often skimming over U.S. soldiers' possible actions against their younger captives, with a few exceptions








www.washingtonpost.com...
In a May 21 piece on the previously unreported witness statements from Abu Ghraib prisoners, the Washington Post reported the account of detainee Kasim Mehaddi Hilas. According to the Post, Hilas, whom American personnel had been beaten, stripped, photographed and threatened with sexual assault, also witnessed a teenage boy being raped in October 2003 at Abu Ghraib by someone the Post identified as "an Army translator."

Curiously, the paragraph following the account begins, "Hilas, like other detainees interviewed by the military, said he could not identify some of the soldiers because they either covered their name patches or did not wear uniforms." The implication is that Hilas did not know the assailant's name.

The Post's website hosts links to the 14 sworn statements taken by Army investigators in January. Hilas' actual statement, excerpted in the Sunday Herald, reveals that Hilas actually did name the assailant, but notes that the soldier's name has been is censored from the report.

In fact, the copy carried on the Post's site shows this deletion to Hilas' statement, which makes no mention of an Army translator, only the rapist: "I saw [deleted] who was wearing the military uniform," adding that a female soldier was taking pictures. This deletion is significant because both his statement and the Post story do name some U.S. personnel involved with abusing adult prisoners.








Hersh said in his speech last month that the U.S. government is terrified that the photographs and video evidence proving the abuse and rape of children will come out.

"I can tell you some of the personal stories of some of the people who were in these units who witnessed this," Hersh commented. "I can also tell you written complaints were made to the highest officers. And so we're dealing with an enormous, massive amount of criminal wrongdoing that was covered up at the highest command out there and higher."

Army investigator Major General Antonio M. Taguba stated in a February 2004 report that all of the witnesses' accounts were "found to be credible based on the clarity of their statements and supporting evidence provided by other witnesses." Months later, it is not known that any action has been taken against the translator or guards apparently implicated in the Army's own reports.








english.ohmynews.com...
Florian Westphal, a spokesman for the ICRC in Geneva, said on "Report Mainz," "Between January and May 2004, 107 children have been registered during 17 visits in six different prisons. It should be pointed out that these are all prisons run by coalition troops."

In response to a request for comment by "Report Mainz," the British Ministry of Defence denied the arrest of Iraqi children. The U.S. Ministry of Defence refused requests for a statement.

General Secretary of the German section of Amnesty International, Barbara Lochbihler, complained that the U.S. government clearly has no intention of explaining violations of human rights by coalition troops in Iraq, even after the Abu Ghraib scandal. She blames U.S. troops for preventing an independent investigation, which she called "scandalous."

The arrest of Iraqi children by U.S. forces does not surprise human rights experts. They cite the fact that children have been detained in Guantanamo Bay prison. On April 24, 2003, the U.S. organization Human Rights Watch (HRW) reported that at least three children aged between 13 and 15 were being held there.

"Report Mainz," one of Germany's top investigative programs and part of the leading public TV network "ARD" (Das Erste), is a well-respected news source with German media and the public itself.








www.vanramblings.com...
The TV magazine reported testimonies in which U.S. soldiers in Iraqi prisons had abused children. Samuel Provance, an NCO stationed in Abu Ghraib prison said specialists harrassed a 15- to 16-year-old girl in her cell.

As a reaction to the alleged torture of children, Norwegian authorities state they will address the U.S. both politically and diplomatically and clearly state that such activities by the U.S. occupation forces would not be tolerated.

Further, based on published reports, the International organization, Save The Children, called on the Danish government to mediate immediately with the coalition forces in Iraq in order to release children detained in Iraqi jails.








www.arabicnews.com...
The International organization "Save The Children" called on the Danish government to mediate immediately with the coalition forces in Iraq in order to release children detained in the Iraqi jails.

The chairman of the organization's branch in Denmark ( Red Barnette ) Neals Hurdal said that some of those children were exposed to bad treatment and their basic rights were violated.

The call of the organization was made after a German TV station on Monday screened a documentary film talking about more than 100 Iraqi children detained in Iraq.

Hurdal said that his organization heard rumors about this matter since May this year some of it were stated by employees working in its branch in al- Basra to the south of Iraq but without evidences. He said that " the filmed report which was broadcast by the German station proved our doubts." The organization called on the Danish minister of defense Surin Ghad to interfere at the coalition forces in order to prepare the report over the situation of children in the Iraqi jails.






Read More:

• Iraq: One more sin � evidence of children being abused in Abu Ghraib.
  
  
• U.S. Government, Media Silent on Torture of Detained Iraqi Kids
  
  
• U.S. Government, Media Silent on Torture of Detained Iraqi Kids
  

Private contractors were implicated in the abuse scandal and some reports even suggest they supervised interrogations
www.sundayherald.com...
THE US government would love to lay the blame for the beating, torturing and sexual abuse of Iraqi prisoners in the infamous Abu Ghraib prison at the door of blank-eyed GIs from Appalachian trailer parks. But evidence is increasingly putting the allied forces� reliance on civilian private contractors at the very heart of the problems in Iraq.
Among those suspected of the Abu Ghraib offences is Adel Nakhla, described as a civilian translator, employed by the Californian-based Titan Corporation.

Another 30-strong team of interrogators at the prison were employed by CACI International, which is based in Virginia. One of the team, Torin Nelson, said last week that private companies were so keen to meet the demand for their services that they were sending cooks and drivers to work as interrogators.

Nelson and Nakhla are among four civilians based at Abu Ghraib who are named in a classified army report on the abuses. One � Steven Stephanowicz, also employed by CACI � is accused in the report of encouraging military police to terrorise inmates and �clearly knew his instructions equated to physical abuse�.

One of the soldiers facing court martial claimed he�d been told by superior officers to follow the instructions of contractors.

One civilian interrogator � it�s not known who employed him � told army investigators that he had �unintentionally� broken several tables during interrogations as he was trying to �fear-up� detainees. A military report said private contractors were at times supervising the interrogations.

There have also been claims that former British and US soldiers who were now employed by private firms in Iraq had been trained in �resistance to interrogation� techniques � including keeping prisoners naked and depriving them of dignity � and were passing these on to soldiers and other employees who had not been trained to use them.

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