Women and Freemasonry...

I am not sure if I am treading in forbidden territory here....and I am sorry if this has been covered more than a million times before....but I would like to hear from Masons as to why women were never part of the great Brotherhood?? -

The Priory of Sion does, to the best of my knowledge allow women into it's fold, as it is universal and recognises the power of the Matriarchal in the great Occultist teachings of the Cabals, The cathars, the SanGraal...etc..

I am a woman who has been interested in masonic symbology and sacred geometry since i was 12 years old...

Please shed some light....

Originally posted by Cheyenne
I am not sure if I am treading in forbidden territory here....and I am sorry if this has been covered more than a million times before....but I would like to hear from Masons as to why women were never part of the great Brotherhood??

Not to be smart, but the general response to this question is "Ummm ... because it's a Brotherhood". In other words, it's a Fraternity, and as such, allows only males in.

Organizations such as the Order of the Eastern Star do exist, and are "supported" by the Masons (they are allowed to use Masionic halls for meetings, and are "sponsored" by a male Patron who is a Mason).

This can be debated over and over, but it always comes back to tradition - Masonry was started as a Men's organization, and so it still is.

I would agree with Midnight Watchman; Masonry does not admit women simply because it is a fraternity. We do not consider women to be inferior to men, any more than women who belong to sororities consider men inferior.

From your post, it seems that you are interested in esoteric symbolism. Most esoteric schools of initiation admit both men and women. These include the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, Builders of the Adytum, Society of the Inner Light, and Ordo Templi Orientis. These organizations have many symbols in common with Masonry, but focus more on the occult perspective of them than is done in Masonry.

Fiat Lvx.

Hmmm, women not allowed into a BROTHERhood. Like asking how come women aren't allowed to play in Men's Basketball. Because it is mens basketball!

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Hmmm, women not allowed into a BROTHERhood. Like asking how come women aren't allowed to play in Men's Basketball. Because it is mens basketball!

I don't think her question deserves this ridicule.
Being a brotherhood is not what defines Masonry or makes it special. There are many brotherhoods in the world. What makes Freemasonry stand out from these lesser brotherhoods is its rich history, symbolism, and system of thought. These are aspects of Freemasonry that a female might be interested in reading. Just like I read parts of that Pike book Morals & Dogma and though I am not a Mason (because I have no d**k) I found them to be illuminating & useful.

On the other hand, I also concede that part of what makes Masonry special to its members is its fraternal element. I have been in a field that is traditionally male & let me tell ya, a woman can't be "one of the boys" in such a place unless they have a full sex-change operation.

By the same token, there are some practioners of Wicca and authors about modern witchcraft & "Goddess worship" who are very anti-male--some go so far as to deny that men are capable of having any true spiritual element whatsoever (classifying them instead as inherently warlike & nature-destroying). I think what makes these all-female Wiccan groups attractive to many women is its sense of sorority and freedom from the judgement & prying eyes of men. I suspect this element reversed is what makes all-male groups like the Masons & certain sports tournaments so appealling to some men.

So I'm fine with not being able to be a Mason (as the result of having no d**k).

Cassie:

Masons do not hate women, nor feel superior to them, spiritually or physically, or otherwise. No misogyny.

In fact, when a man petitions to become a Mason, his spouse (if he has one) is also consulted, and if she gives him "the Heisman" (football fans know what I mean), the petitioner plus his sponsor Masons must reconsider and take the spouse's reservations seriously.

Sorry about you not having a penis. The Eastern Star DOES accept non-penile individuals, though. I'm sure they, too, have a rich history and likely share some of it with Masonry.



[edit on 23-9-2004 by LTD602]

Originally posted by LTD602
Masons do not hate women, nor feel superior to them, spiritually or physically, or otherwise.

If you read my post carefully, I never said they hate women. I said that sometimes males & females feel more comfortable in groups that only contain their own sex. This is not a matter of feeling superior or hating but just human nature. This is why women don't attend bachelor parties (except perhaps as strippers or whores).

Granted, there are some groups that traditionally are all-male or all-female that have opened their doors to members of the opposite sex. Consider the Barbie doll collecting community, for instance. There are more men collecting Barbie dolls now than ever before in the history of the world. But one must question if allowing members of the opposite gender has weakened the tight sorority of 11-inch fashion doll afficianados or their creed.

And please don't be sorry for me not having a d**k. I really don't want to have one physically growing out of my crotch, for many reasons involving aesthetics, mechanics, and the bulk lot of tampons I have squirreled away from Costco. I think Freemasonry is interesting & all, but I'm not so crazy about it that I'm willing to pull a Yentil just to get in & learn the oaths.

And the last time I mentioned Annie Besant & the Order of the Eastern Star, I got these posts from Masons like "that's not real Freemasonry!" "it's not recognized!" "it's just a copycat pseudo-organization!" So that's why I haven't even mentioned it.

I was comparing Masonry to:

"some practioners of Wicca and authors about modern witchcraft & "Goddess worship" who are very anti-male--some go so far as to deny that men are capable of having any true spiritual element whatsoever (classifying them instead as inherently warlike & nature-destroying)."

I never said you hated men or that sorority-like groups at large hate men.

Similarly, my boxes of condoms would go to waste had I something other than a penis. And oh, look . . . . I'm in short supply already!

For more information about the Eastern Star, ask the Masons on these boards.

You might also look into te OTO (Ordo Templi orientis.) I'm not sure about the Rosicrucians, but perhaps they accept women.

Nice to see you being level-headed about Masonry, though.

Originally posted by Cassie Clay
And the last time I mentioned Annie Besant & the Order of the Eastern Star, I got these posts from Masons like "that's not real Freemasonry!" "it's not recognized!" "it's just a copycat pseudo-organization!" So that's why I haven't even mentioned it.

I'm curious as to when and where this happened. Several of the Masons here suggested I seek out CoMasonry of the Eastern Star. They weew ver helpful and in no way put down these two groups. They provided links to these groups.
I opted for another group, Builders of the Adytum (B.O.T.A.), which is not a fraternity, but a Western Mystery School.

I have no problem with Masonry not allowing women, BTW.

[edit on 23-9-2004 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe

Originally posted by Cassie Clay
And the last time I mentioned Annie Besant & the Order of the Eastern Star, I got these posts from Masons like "that's not real Freemasonry!" "it's not recognized!" "it's just a copycat pseudo-organization!" So that's why I haven't even mentioned it.

I'm curious as to when and where this happened. Several of the Masons here suggested I seek out CoMasonry of the Eastern Star. They weew ver helpful and in no way put down these two groups. They provided links to these groups.
I opted for another group, Builders of the Adytum (B.O.T.A.), which is not a fraternity, but a Western Mystery School.

I have no problem with Masonry not allowing women, BTW.

[edit on 23-9-2004 by DontTreadOnMe]

Why would we put down Star? It is a group of good women and men, working together to do good. In my lodge, it is almost a requirement to be in Star as well as the blue lodge... but my wife has ZERO interest in Star right now, and I am too busy with my own business and as a lodge officer to even entertain joining Star.

If I had three extra hours per week I would join Scottish Rite...

Quote dancing around guys-

Masons are sexists!

Elitism, as in the Ol' South, needs women to 'know' their place and it just isn't in with the boys.

It's called a 'brotherhood' or a 'fraternity' only when the need arises. In some places (other than the Americas and Brit/Commonwealth) masonry is 'co-ed.'

I suppose a ritual or two has to be changed for this though, I really can't imagine a woman - well, maybe- hmmm

I'll have to give that some thought.

Originally posted by PublicGadfly
Quote dancing around guys-

Masons are sexists!

Not really. We are a fraternity. It has nothing to do with being sexist.

Elitism, as in the Ol' South, needs women to 'know' their place and it just isn't in with the boys.

Oh, that is just so much nonsense. I am not from the south, and I am an advocate for women's rights, but even so, I do not see why women need to be a part of every single group, organization or operation under the sun. Masonry is a fellowship. Why do you have your panties in such a bunch about it? Is this really the best you can muster as a complaint against masonry?

Give it a rest. Masonry is a fraternity. Period.

It's called a 'brotherhood' or a 'fraternity' only when the need arises. In some places (other than the Americas and Brit/Commonwealth) masonry is 'co-ed.'

that is NOT masonry. It is a bunch of folks CALLING themselves masonry. To be a mason, you must be a man, otherwise it only a name.

I suppose a ritual or two has to be changed for this though, I really can't imagine a woman - well, maybe- hmmm

YOU, sir, are a dirty old man.

I think i know a few options for you Cheyenne

Her is one: www.droit-humain.org...

and then: 2be1 - ask1

To add my two cents and immediately be branded a liar etc...
From my experience and research Women ARE allowed to become Freemasons, although they are limited to "The Square."
The Order Eastern Star and similar societies is more or less the same thing and I found many Women taking active roles in the harassment and nonsense I put up with for the last 3 years.
I came to the conclusion that the old requirements of being either a daughter or wife of a Mason are a lot more relaxed now, maybe even waved altogether.
Ultimately Masonic Philosophy equates women with the material world and men with the celestial, heaven rules over earth but cannot exist without it, so although men dominate over women it is important to realize that they are an essential part of The Great Architect's plan.
Note this is not my personal philosophy - it is as written by both Albert Pike and Charles T McClenechan amongst others.

Originally posted by MrNECROS
To add my two cents and immediately be branded a liar etc...
From my experience and research Women ARE allowed to become Freemasons, although they are limited to "The Square."
The Order Eastern Star and similar societies is more or less the same thing and I found many Women taking active roles in the harassment and nonsense I put up with for the last 3 years.
I came to the conclusion that the old requirements of being either a daughter or wife of a Mason are a lot more relaxed now, maybe even waved altogether.
Ultimately Masonic Philosophy equates women with the material world and men with the celestial, heaven rules over earth but cannot exist without it, so although men dominate over women it is important to realize that they are an essential part of The Great Architect's plan.
Note this is not my personal philosophy - it is as written by both Albert Pike and Charles T McClenechan amongst others.

In Canada, at least in Ontariio.. NO women are allowed. No co-ed Masonry. NOT for the reasons you allege, however, as usual.

No, NECROS, you're not a liar. You just tend to spread falsehoods.

LTD - do mean to tell me that Women aren't allowed into the Order Eastern Star in Canada or are you just throwiing up a bit more fluff?
Anyway if you are only an initiate you wouldn't know anyway for real, so why spout off as if you do?
Freemasonry is irregular by definition, it varies from country to country and state to state.
The Order Eastern Star and other such groups are Masonic, the just aren't The Scottish Rite.

Yes, the Eastern Star is for women, but it is not really Masonic. It is affiliated to Masonry and recognized by Masonry. That's all I know, so ask a Mason for more information. Women do not meet with men in Masonic lodges.

When I "spout" off, you're getting the best extent of my knowledge, the most frank marshalling of evidence that I'm capable of as an educated, thinking person.

When you "spout off", it involves attacks, slander, baseless accustions, and outlandish information . . . . often involving mysterious toilet-related incidents. Since you post your ideas with such vigour, I assume that all the drugs the Masons pumped in to you out of sheer evil and malice have worn off by now, lol.

[edit on 30-9-2004 by LTD602]

The Order Eastern Star isn't Masonic...again please?

www.masonicinfo.com...

It is and it isn't. Draw your own conclusions, or wait until Theron, ML, or another Mason answers your question.

Thank you for your information on this subject....

I am a female who has been interested in the Gnostic symbology of Freemasonry since I was about 14 years old....

I think you could see it as a 'calling' to this particular way of life....

What is the current situation with admission?? to the best of my knowledge, no one in my family has ever been a Freemason....

Best Regards