Public Education creating social classes.

reply to post by SaturnFX


The education system needs a complete revamp really. The system is designed so rigidly and standardized that it cannot succeed. Part of the problem is ineffectual teachers, and inattentive parents. It shouldn't be just about memorizing this that and the other, that is just imparting knowledge you have to teach how to apply what they are learning to their everyday experience. Children do not all learn the same way and some are just better at somethings than others. In this particular case I can not see any reason why a supposedly "advanced" child would need a 5:1 student to teacher ratio they already have the advantage of grasping things quickly and it is a waste of resources that would be better served breaking down larger class sizes to improve the learning process there.

Please don't feel I am against a challenging program for the "gifted".

My daughter loved school and even homework at first, now she just get's bored with it. But when we sit with her, and give her "extra" homework, not given to those in her class, such as tougher math problems, or making her read a book to us, or whatever it may be, she will sit for hours to learn something new.

My only issue is that I think many of these children can learn on there own and most pick up on things very quickly.

Why does so much money need to be spent on all of these "aides" with children who obviously don't need the help in school, when you have those that do need the help being given nothing

what about those kids that are good in school but not "gifted", aren't they too being dragged down?

My daughter was in a gifted program. Kids were admitted based on their test scores. Back then you basically had to test pretty high.

The program was very accelerated compared to a regular classroom. That was because the kids in the program could grasp material very fast. So if you had a math lesson, the kids basically all got it immediately. They would wiz through their homework and go about the rest of their day. About 1/3 of the kids in the class would not have been able to function in regular school. They were very smart but had social issues and need teachers trained to help them function in the real world. Being on either end of the bell curve can sometimes bring with it other issues which may be considered a disability. So in reality the gifted program was catering to some kids who outsiders might consider as mentally disabled.

Yes, kids in this program had opportunities that kids in the regular classes didn't get. My daughter finished all the math available to her in the 10th grade and had to go to the University for some classes. She thought the University was too easy also.

When she started college for real, she already had a years worth of credit and finished her 4 year degree in 2 1/2 years.

The reality as to why kids like that need to be separated from the rest , from an educational point of view, is that they wouldn't be challenged in a regular classroom environment.

One size does not fit all when you think about a learning environment.

I do think that kids should be grouped according to ability so that they can be challenged and progress as fast as their ability allows.

Now in our town, where we used to have 1 gifted class for each year we have 4. There has not been an increase in the number of students. The parents of many kids in the classes are complaining that there is too much homework and that the teachers move too fast. The answer is that the material is the same but they lowered the standard to get in. The gifted programs are not fore everyone and they are not a status symbol. They are programs created to teach those few students who learn much faster than most other students.

Originally posted by tw0330
Why does so much money need to be spent on all of these "aides" with children who obviously don't need the help in school, when you have those that do need the help being given nothing

You answered this in your first paragraph - - Stimulation.

Just because you are "gifted" - - doesn't mean you wouldn't rather be outside running around just being a kid. Or the Big One - - manipulating the teachers.

My daughter was one of those that wasn't gonna do anything unless it was exactly what she wanted to do - - and she is still that way.

I'm now "Granny Nanny" to her son - - and he is just like his mom. He was reading at 3 - - taught himself on his computer.

I have to constantly Stimulate him - - and redirect.

"Gifted" does not mean you sit quietly at your desk - - wide eyed - - waiting for instructions.

Originally posted by tw0330
Why does so much money need to be spent on all of these "aides" with children who obviously don't need the help in school, when you have those that do need the help being given nothing

A couple reasons. The state cant let the parents of gifted or capable kids figure out that public education isnt worth funding.

Second is that at some point you reach the inevitable conclusion that "extra-help" is simply a waste.

Think of a dumb kid as a 1 gallon pail. It'll fill to a point. Then it's just spilling all over the place.
A smart kid may be a 5 or 10 gallon pail. Maybe even a 55 gallon drum or an empty reservoir.

Each kid has a limit to what they can understand.

Sure, some of those 1 gallon pail kids might grow up to discover an intense love of physics or mechanical engineering. Is it worth expending finite resources on a kid who may or may not benefit? Especially when you have a kid who you know will benefit sitting just across the hall?

These resources (teachers, supplies, time) are all finite. As finite they need to be allocated efficiently. Efficiently is not always fairly.

There will never be success in public education as long as we maintain these monster schools catering to hundreds of students. Everything falls apart at critical mass. Families, towns, states, countries, schools, businesses, etc... Sooner or later these things all become too big to sustain. Public schools, especially ones in densely populated areas are all past that point.

For a structured education to work it has to be catered to a small audience with room to adapt and evolve. Not pumped out of some bureaucratic think tank and forced upon thousands of pupils in a county or state.

reply to post by stdscf12


I do not in any way shape or form blame teachers. It is a broken system.


I will say this though, had the system offered "aides" like this to my own regular class, during my elementary learning, then my teacher would have been given some help in making sure some of us understood the concept behind certain things. They could have worked with those of us which are struggled in one or two areas vs everything, but instead I was shipped to special education where all of the kids with mental problems and behavior problems were put.

You don't think this had an effect on my ability to excel in school??

This did nothing but make it even harder for me to learn. It made me even farther behind the other kids. I was finally able to get past it all and get out of there (thanks to my parents) but even though I never needed there services again, I was labeled for the rest of my existence in school as a special ed kid, not by the students, but by the teachers.

This hurt my ability to get into a good college, my ability to take certain high school classes, I was often asked in front of other students if "i needed help with a test or something". I didn't need the help. I did just fine in school.

I know they were only trying to help, but fact is, that label they put on me, emotionally and socially hurt me. At times I felt stupid, and would often question whether I should even bother trying. (many, did give up and either quit school, or just didn't care any more).

I honestly feel all of this could have been avoided, if the class had an extra hand to help me understand the answer as to "why" something is done a certain way. especially reading, as we all know how the english language is. Just try teaching a child to spell good then have them spell food. (best galligar ever!)

So, I don't want to see another child have to deal with the stigma I had to deal with, because we have a school system that would rather label a child as a "special education child" and through you into a classroom you are doomed to failure, instead of trying to help you understand and succeed in life.


Why are only certain kids given this opportunity?

I find the reply's very eye opening.

As mentioned, I am not worried about my daughter, as I am sure she will make the program one of these days.

I am more worried about the other children.


What I am reading here is, that you are ok with all of the money and resources going to just a few of the kids that do excel in school, while the majority of the kids get the left overs?

Either all of you guys are have really smart children, or just don't care that your child could get a better education, but because they don't excel at everything, they don't get it.

Because seriously this is what I am hearing.

of course many kids don't want to learn in an environment designed to teach them how to sit still and try and lean while the teacher talks. This kind of learning isn't good for any child's especially for young boys.

reply to post by Annee


oh I agree with you, and I am all for this type of situation.

but don't you feel that other kids might learn a little better the same way.

I myself am just like my daughter, the difference, is that certain situations in my early life left me developmentally delayed. It was from outside sources that made me this way, but eventually caught up, but not because of the school system. it was because my parents knew I learned differently (such as that of a "gifted child") and structured my tutoring around that.

The problem is eventually I caught up, but was never able to excel, because the system didnt give me that chance, and instead labeled me as needing "special" help until i graduated. This had a major effect on my abilities to learn.

As an adult, I do more and know more than the majority of my counter parts, but I structured my own learning.

Originally posted by tw0330
EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES.

In our school district we have an advanced program, which gives children that excel in school opportunities not afforded to other children.

You can give your child an infinitely better education yourself, if you are willing to doso.

The government doesn't run schools out of the kindness of its' heart; and it certainly doesn't do so because it wants children to have any idea of how to genuinely think. The purpose of the school system is not education as we once understood the definition of that term; but rather governmental mind control and penal reform.

en.wikipedia.org... - If you want to genuinely educate your daughter, this is a list of books that you should give her to read, at least when she is old enough; and there are other works in the same light, such as Aesop, which she can start reading even at a young age. Google Project Gutenberg; virtually all of them are freely available on the Internet.