Hiram, "my Master Craftsman" is Satan/Baal

reply to post by 1nOne

Who are you to say we are not of God? Do you know his Judgment of us? Who are you to define our relationship with the Almighty? Blasphemy I say.

reply to post by 1nOne

You know, the only animal I know that I've been warned about is the wolf in sheep's clothing claiming to be of the Almighty. And here you are with your teeth bared, barking out orders as if you had any kind of authority. Begone wolf. Begone false prophet.

Speaking of beasts...
When God, I learned, created the earth... he installed Adam.
When God, I learned, saw that Adam was alone... he fashioned of flesh a woman.
This angered Lucifer because he was thought to be the most beautiful of all of God's creations.
Turns out that Eve had just become the true glory of all of God's creations.
Within the garden therein was found one who would never be loved by such a creature as Eve.
But he delighted in the idea that because of God it was possible.
So... He, longing to be looked at in a similar fashion, intrigued Eve with the knowledge of good and evil and with the idea that she could be as a God. To the crafty serpent this was his time to be as he hoped.
and as for Lucifer... well.... he sucks ass!

This is where my belief that a Freemason's most glorious possession and gift to mankind is woman/daughters.
That is why they make men of men and fools.

Am I, The Great Pinocchio, worthy of such glory as woman?!?

Originally posted by Rockpuck


You've presented absolutely nothing of substance to indicate that King Hiram was ever called "Satan" or that he was "evil" in any way?

I think I can fill in the gap on this from the incredibly accurate old testament prophecy of the destruction of Tyre.

From Ezekiel 28:

1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 “Son of man, say to the ruler of Tyre, ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says:
“‘In the pride of your heart
you say, “I am a god;
I sit on the throne of a god
in the heart of the seas.”
.....
“‘You were the seal of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
carnelian, chrysolite and emerald,
topaz, onyx and jasper,
lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl.
Your settings and mountings[c] were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.
14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.
16 Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.
17 Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;
I made a spectacle of you before kings.
18 By your many sins and dishonest trade
you have desecrated your sanctuaries.
So I made a fire come out from you,
and it consumed you,
and I reduced you to ashes on the ground
in the sight of all who were watching.
19 All the nations who knew you
are appalled at you;
you have come to a horrible end
and will be no more.’”

While Ezekiel describes in great detail how Tyre would be destroyed, towards the end there is a prophetic allegory with the casting out and fall of satan, as should be clear to anyone who reads the passage. In other words God likens Tyre to the devil himself. I think there is a good reason for that and also a good lesson for us today.

Western civilization is very similar in haughtiness and evil to the Tyre of old and will probably receive a similar fate. Most of all of our accomplishments will be completely forgotten, just as no one remembers the great accomplishments of pre-flood civilizations.

Originally posted by SevenThunders

Originally posted by Rockpuck


You've presented absolutely nothing of substance to indicate that King Hiram was ever called "Satan" or that he was "evil" in any way?

I think I can fill in the gap...

Is this truly in the time of King Hiram of Tyre... or in reference to the kingdom itself with another ruler within it?
Do not be offended... I do not intend to mock you. I am just curious as to whether or not this verse is refering to Hiram...

Moreso... Good find. It may set well the oncoming tone within this thread.

It is interesting to know one may find that being in disfavor with god means that immediately one is satan.
Mortal men, by mythology, can never truly aspire and achieve as Lucifer has. Any attempt to display such evil is in the eyes of the true beholder a silly attempt.
If Lucifer has an agenda with humanity... it is probably with the those who think they can be him.

reply to post by 1nOne


Great men are not always wise: neither do the aged understand judgment. - Job 32:9

As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly. - Proverbs 31:6

A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult. - Proverbs 12:16

There is more hope for a fool than for someone who speaks without thinking. - Proverbs 29:20

I have no idea what you are attempting to disclose in this thread...and i really don't believe you do either. Just a bunch of quotes and name meanings do not prove anything...much like numerology...add this subtract that...divide both of those and always come up with 2012...911...or 666 which ever your heart desires.

And I too am curious on you thoughts on battery acid...please tell me more...oh teach me everything...just do not use wiki as your primary source

this thread went WAY off topic...

reply to post by DJMSN


I am not this Steve "Parakletos" of whom you speak. Nor do I know, "Bill".

Onomatologically, I am called, "Herakleitos".

If by, "battery acid", you mean, "sulfuric acid", then know that Spirit does not corrode under vitriolic threats.

And they having come up, lifted him on the cross; and having stretched his body across with ropes, they only bound his feet, but did not sever his joints, having received this order from the proconsul: for he wished him to be in distress while hanging, and in the night-time, as he was suspended, to be eaten up alive by dogs.
And a great multitude of the brethren stood by, nearly twenty thousand; and having beheld the executioners standing off, and that they had done to the blessed one nothing of what those who were hanged up suffer, they thought that they would again hear something from him; for assuredly, as he was hanging, he moved his head smiling. And Stratocles inquired of him: Why are you smiling, Andrew, servant of God? Your laughter makes us mourn and weep, because we are deprived of you. And the blessed Andrew answered him: Shall I not laugh at all, my son Stratocles, at the empty stratagem of Ægeates, through which he thinks to take vengeance upon us? We have nothing to do with him and his plans. He cannot hear; for if he could, he would be aware, having learned it by experience, that a man of Jesus is unpunished.

The Acts and Martyrdom of Andrew

I'd still like to point out that nowhere have you proven Hiram to be Satan.

Ok so is Satan Lucifer? If not is Lucifer bad? If so what bad things has he done?

The question that must be asked is: Why do Freemasons accept Holy Scripture as a base, then need an alternative christ? Is Christ Jesus/Yaheshua not satisfactory? Did He not fulfil every demand made of Him for mankind? Was His life and ministry insufficient? Was His death and His resurrection not entirely victorious? Why do these fraternities need to invent a substitute fantasy figure in the name of Hiram Abiff that can be found nowhere in the very scripture that they claim to study? And the conclusion is that only Satan could contrive such a deception that would have the ability to command the sympathy of thousands of professing but wayward Christians, let alone thousands of others. Young Freemasons are quite honest as to the reasons they join - family tradition, social connections, business connections. And as they find out, those extensive connections help them to prosper financially. But at what price? Their blindness in exchange for the world.

"To the man who pleases him, God gives wisdom, knowledge and happiness, but to the sinner he gives the task of gathering and storing up wealth to hand it over to the one who pleases God."

We do not speak about religion in Lodge.

We come together in the spirit of Brotherhood and Charity, and do not base our support for our fellow humans in need on the basis of their favorite Gospel.

We can see past the dirision and division inherent in most organized religion to the place where all people deservbe to be treated as if they are God's children too.

An alternate Jesus? No, thank you.

Masonic work is about charity, not about whom you feel is your savior.

We do not replace Jesus with Hiram Abiff.

Originally posted by abeverage
Ok so is Satan Lucifer? If not is Lucifer bad? If so what bad things has he done?

No, Satan and Lucifer are different deities.
Lucifer = Jesus.

Originally posted by Pinocchio

Originally posted by SevenThunders

Originally posted by Rockpuck


You've presented absolutely nothing of substance to indicate that King Hiram was ever called "Satan" or that he was "evil" in any way?

I think I can fill in the gap...

Is this truly in the time of King Hiram of Tyre... or in reference to the kingdom itself with another ruler within it?
Do not be offended... I do not intend to mock you. I am just curious as to whether or not this verse is refering to Hiram...

Moreso... Good find. It may set well the oncoming tone within this thread.

It is interesting to know one may find that being in disfavor with god means that immediately one is satan.
Mortal men, by mythology, can never truly aspire and achieve as Lucifer has. Any attempt to display such evil is in the eyes of the true beholder a silly attempt.
If Lucifer has an agenda with humanity... it is probably with the those who think they can be him.

Well it would have to have been long after Hiram. Actually for all we know Hiram was a righteous man, certainly if he was anointed to work on the temple, God had his hand on his life. I just was suddenly struck by the Ezekiel prophecy which is an allegory ultimately, comparing the pride of a powerful city with the fall of one of God's holy angels. So Tyre was indeed associated in some way with evil.

Whether you can impute that freemasonry is evil because of this is somewhat suspect. It would depend on how they use the Hiram symbol. I do know that God does not look favorably on occultic rituals, nor does he like counterfeits or religious practices that replace him with created things. Since I do not really know that much about freemasonry besides hearsay, I can make no judgments.

Originally posted by SevenThunders
I do know that God does not look favorably on occultic rituals

Are you sure? Because the word "occult" means hidden or secret, and Matthew 6:6 says "But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

reply to post by 1nOne


About this Baal fella:

Although Baal was the name of a Phoenician deity, it is also a Hebrew word meaning "lord" or "master,"(63) and when it forms part of a name it can be used to identify Jehovah. A son of David, for example, is called both Eliada, "God Knows" (2 Samuel 5:16), and Beeliada, "Baal knows" (1 Chronicles 14:7).

Another man, who was a friend of David, was named Bealiah (1 Chronicles 12:5), meaning "Jehovah is Baal" or "Jehovah is Lord."(64) After winning a victory over the Philistines, David named the location Baal-Perazim (2 Samuel 5:20; 1 Chronicles 14:11), which means, "Lord of breaches."

Morris/de Hoyos, Is It True What They Say about Freemasonry?

Originally posted by SevenThunders
Since I do not really know that much about freemasonry besides hearsay, I can make no judgments.

You are a person worthy of respect.

Contextual ties between Hiram Abiff and Mormon Joseph Smith (English surname meaning "metal worker, blacksmith", derived from Old English smitan "to smite, to hit") behindthename.com


Wikipedia: On Hiram Abiff of Tyre/Carthage


HIRAM Abiff (other spellings "Hurum"[1], "Abif"[2][3], and "Huram-Abi"[4]) is a character who figures prominently in an ALLEGORICAL[5] play that is presented during the third degree of Craft Freemasonry.
HIRAM, a craftsman of great skill sent from Tyre. 2 Chronicles 2:13-14 relates a formal request from King Solomon of Jerusalem to King Hiram I of Tyre, for workers and for materials to BUILD A NEW TEMPLE; King Hiram responds "And now I have sent a skillful man, endowed with understanding, Huram my master craftsman (the son of a woman of THE DAUGHTERS OF DAN, and his father was a man of Tyre), SKILLED TO WORK IN GOLD AND SILVER, bronze and iron, STONE and wood, purple and blue, fine linen and crimson, and to make any engraving and to accomplish any plan which may be given to him.

According to Roman sources, Phoenician colonists from modern-day Lebanon, led by Queen Dido (Elissa) founded CARTHAGE. Queen Elissa (also known as "Alissar"), was an exiled princess of the ancient Phoenician city of TYRE.


Wikipedia: On Joseph Smith, Founder of Mormonism

Smith, beginning in the early 1820s he had visions, in one of which an angel directed him to a buried book of GOLDEN plates. The Smith family supplemented its meager farm income by TREASURE-DIGGING. Joseph claimed an ability to use SEER STONES for locating lost items and buried treasure. Smith said he was visited at night by an angel named Moroni, who revealed the location of a buried book of GOLDEN PLATES as well as other artifacts, including a breastplate and a set of SILVER spectacles with lenses composed of seer stones, Smith began BUILDING A TEMPLE in Kirtland. With his family, he also took part in religious folk MAGIC. On June 27, 1844, an armed mob with blackened faces stormed CARTHAGE Jail where Smith and HYRUM were being held....Book of Mormon witness HIRAM Page used his seer stone to locate the American New Jerusalem prophesied by the Book of Mormon[74].

Around June 1838, recent convert Sampson Avard formed a covert organization called the DANITES to intimidate Mormon dissenters and oppose anti-Mormon militia units.

reply to post by 1nOne


"What's your point?", it may be wondered (as it is so often asked).

Response would be pointless.


Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right judgment.
John 7:24


The kingdom of heaven is like a treasure hidden in the field, which a man found and hid again; and from joy over it he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.

Matthew 13:44

I should like to formally recognise the enduring patience and wisdom of the Freemasons in their noble quest to illuminate the world. Thank you.

Adieu

Some what now? Next time you think about starting a thread, think again.

Your logic is beyond flawed.

Not only did you fail to make even the slightest connection between Hiram and Satan, you made no connection between Hiram and anyone else.

If Freemasonry were a person, it could sue you for slander and win.