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Nigeria deaths: Italy demands UK answers on hostage rescue bid
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Italy's foreign minister Giulio Terzi has asked Britain to provide the "utmost clarity" around a failed bid to rescue a Briton and Italian in Nigeria. He has demanded details "in the next few hours", an Italian news agency said, after accusations the UK did not inform Italy about the planned mission.
Islamist militants took Chris McManus, 28, of Oldham, and Franco Lamolinara hostage in north-west Nigeria last May.
The engineers died as Nigerian and UK forces tried to free them on Thursday.
www.bbc.co.uk...
I would just like to express my sheer anger at the ungrateful manner in which the Italian Government has decided to react to the news that our military, designed not to defend the Italian people, attempted to free two hostages last night. How dare they demand "within hours" anything from us? They had no intentions of even attempting to rescue those men.
I feel that if Italy wishes to continue with this aggresive stance, we should make a stand and put Italy very much back in it's place, some sort of trade embargo or heavy pressure on their economy to cause great worry. I am sick of the attitude the Europeans have given us since we told them where to go on their bills, it's time we put our foot down and stood up for ourselves.
What say you?
edit on 9-3-2012 by Justwork because: (no reason given)
I say you're 100% right. Italy COULD have a point...IF...British forces went on a glory mission to rescue an ITALIAN without telling Italy about it.
That isn't what happened here though... They did the honorable thing, by the sound of it..and risked their own lives so others may live. If it'd gone
100% perfect, Italy probably wouldn't even say Thank You. They can just look at themselves and ask why Britain was mounting a rescue operation and
they WERE NOT.
How would that be for a question that demands an answer, since they're in the inquisition mood today?
How would that be for a question that demands an answer, since they're in the inquisition mood today?
edit on 9-3-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because:
(no reason given)
Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
I say you're 100% right. Italy COULD have a point...IF...British forces went on a glory mission to rescue an ITALIAN without telling Italy about it. That isn't what happened here though... They did the honorable thing, by the sound of it..and risked their own lives so others may live. If it'd gone 100% perfect, Italy probably wouldn't even say Thank You. They can just look at themselves and ask why Britain was mounting a rescue operation and they WERE NOT.
How would that be for a question that demands an answer, since they're in the inquisition mood today?edit on 9-3-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)
I don't know why they didn't, financial reasons maybe? Lack of available troops/equipment? All I do know is that it wouldn't have been hard, if they really wanted to, they could have asked us for the equipment and logistical support, we have enough to spare. It just proves that if we hadn't have done this, they would have been killed anyway.
Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
They can just look at themselves and ask why Britain was mounting a rescue operation and they WERE NOT.
I'm half italian (and in the infantry reserve) and half british and I can answer you to this statement.
Italy always had a hypocrite view against everything concerning military. Everything about weapons or military is not really appreciated by all our past and present governments. I think you can find reasons looking back at the history, Italy lost WWII and everything related to fascism and/or its miliary history is strictly forbidden.
Nevertheless, Italy actually have a highly trained army, but they just can't take the initiative because the government itelsf does not want to. The constitution strictly prohibits any war (and related military activities to other countries) and they feed our 'peacefull' people with such things.
Just to bring you an example, I had friends in the Navy who actively took part in combat during Lybia campaign, but... noone talks about it, as it is not a nice thing to do.
One more thing you have to consider is its current diplomatic situation.
Our technical government is facing diplomatic issues with India, as India accused italian marines -and way too much easily Italy delivered them to India's authorities- to have killed two of theyr fishermnas and are keeping them in jail (IMHO they cannot do that as 1.There's no proof about that yet 2.I can't believe they did something like that 3.India is acting against international law)..
Basically up there are feeling embarassed and trying to get back some honor louding up a bit theyr voices, and allow me to answer to the thread, I feel the tone is quite offensive. There appears British Government was doing us a pleasure, but don't forget they had a british there too. And still I can't understand such hostility against Italy or europens for just what seems to be a predictable rumor rose up by the usual opposition. You can bet that could have happened to any other country
edit on 9-3-2012 by Bers81 because: (no reason given)
[In a parallel universe where the truth is told]
"An explanation? Certainly my Italian friend.
You Italian politicians have a demonstrated track record of being corrupt buffoons and could not be trusted with the information. Therefore you were not told until well past the point where you could do damage.
I trust this brings the matter to a close.
Sincerely
William Hague"
"An explanation? Certainly my Italian friend.
You Italian politicians have a demonstrated track record of being corrupt buffoons and could not be trusted with the information. Therefore you were not told until well past the point where you could do damage.
I trust this brings the matter to a close.
Sincerely
William Hague"
Originally posted by justwokeup
[In a parallel universe where the truth is told]
"An explanation? Certainly my Italian friend.
You Italian politicians have a demonstrated track record of being corrupt buffoons and could not be trusted with the information. Therefore you were not told until well past the point where you could do damage.
I trust this brings the matter to a close.
Sincerely
William Hague"
What was the answer that makes you happy? "Yes my master you are certanly right?"
If you didn't want someone to discuss your thread then try not to end with "what say you" as you might look in fact more ridiculous than some politicians. Oh yes italians politicians have a long track of corruption... that's right, seriously.
But I'm pretty sure you are forgetting it was reported here few days ago this www.youtube.com...
Have a good day my cultured friend
edit on 9-3-2012 by Bers81 because: (no reason given)
edit on 9-3-2012 by Bers81 because:
(no reason given)
edit on 9-3-2012 by Bers81 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Bers81
Originally posted by justwokeup
[In a parallel universe where the truth is told]
"An explanation? Certainly my Italian friend.
You Italian politicians have a demonstrated track record of being corrupt buffoons and could not be trusted with the information. Therefore you were not told until well past the point where you could do damage.
I trust this brings the matter to a close.
Sincerely
William Hague"
What was the answer that makes you happy? "Yes my master you are certanly right?"
If you didn't want someone to discuss your thread then try not to end with "what say you" as you might look in fact more ridiculous than some politicians. Oh yes italians politicians have a long track of corruption... that's right, seriously.
But I'm pretty sure you are forgetting it was reported here few days ago this www.youtube.com...
Have a good day my cultured friendedit on 9-3-2012 by Bers81 because: (no reason given)edit on 9-3-2012 by Bers81 because: (no reason given)edit on 9-3-2012 by Bers81 because: (no reason given)
Are you going to make any sense at some point in that little rant? It would be helpful for keeping the thread on topic.
reply to post by Bers81
Why thank you for that background and detail. I think we hear people talk about just about every other nation, but as I was reading your reply...it stuck me...I rarely if ever hear from Italians about Italy.
I'm a little sore about Italy in very general terms because of a couple previous incidents over the years with Terrorists and Hostages. The rescue run they made in Iraq where they failed to relax and stand down at friendly lines comes to mind. A tragedy, really...and turning it into a huge blame game left a sour taste.
The other one was so old, I'll bet many will need to google it..but if you recall the Achille Lauro Hijacking and how that played out when U.S. Planes forced the terrorist's escape plane down in Sicily. We..uh..really had intended to take him on the spot.
That is the first time I've heard someone describe the Italian Military as capable and well trained though...and I appreciate that insight. It isn't that everyone says otherwise. It's that I just never see people who would know, saying either way. It's good to know Italy has good people with the same garbage Government as everyone else. lol
Why thank you for that background and detail. I think we hear people talk about just about every other nation, but as I was reading your reply...it stuck me...I rarely if ever hear from Italians about Italy.
I'm a little sore about Italy in very general terms because of a couple previous incidents over the years with Terrorists and Hostages. The rescue run they made in Iraq where they failed to relax and stand down at friendly lines comes to mind. A tragedy, really...and turning it into a huge blame game left a sour taste.
The other one was so old, I'll bet many will need to google it..but if you recall the Achille Lauro Hijacking and how that played out when U.S. Planes forced the terrorist's escape plane down in Sicily. We..uh..really had intended to take him on the spot.
That is the first time I've heard someone describe the Italian Military as capable and well trained though...and I appreciate that insight. It isn't that everyone says otherwise. It's that I just never see people who would know, saying either way. It's good to know Italy has good people with the same garbage Government as everyone else. lol
I'd like know what Italy's alternative plan of action was,apparently the two man had already been executed before the armed forces arrived,maybe
they had intelligence saying this was about to happen and made the call to intervene,no time consult the Italian's.
reply to post by thebabyseagull
The Italians would have probably paid the ransom for the two hostages. Which they have done in the past to resolve any hostage issue.
One supposes we wont know what would have happened if they the Italians had paid the ransom.
Was it the right decision to attempt a rescue?
The two hostages were about to be killed, so we have been told, but one supposes we will never know the truth.
The Italians would have probably paid the ransom for the two hostages. Which they have done in the past to resolve any hostage issue.
One supposes we wont know what would have happened if they the Italians had paid the ransom.
Was it the right decision to attempt a rescue?
The two hostages were about to be killed, so we have been told, but one supposes we will never know the truth.
edit on 10-3-2012 by Laurauk because: (no reason given)
The British Government received intelligence that the hostages were about to be killed and so rightly decided to launch a rescue mission.
What were the British supposed to do? Just sit back and let the terrorists kill the hostages? Of course we all know that that is what the useless Italians would have done.
What were the British supposed to do? Just sit back and let the terrorists kill the hostages? Of course we all know that that is what the useless Italians would have done.
Originally posted by Laurauk
reply to post by thebabyseagull
The Italians would have probably paid the ransom for the two hostages. Which they have done in the past to resolve any hostage issue.
The British, rightly, don't pay ransoms to hostage-takers. They usually just send the SAS in whenever it seems that a British hostage is about to be killed and, nine tens out of ten, it is usually the SAS who win.
edit on 10-3-2012 by Sicksicksick because: (no reason given)