Quintessential Pistol for SHTF

Never pick an automatic for a first gun unless you plan on serious shooting(min1000 rnds)as soon as you get it...just too many ways for something to go wrong in a crisis..... Any good .357 will do fine.Itll shoot 5 different calibers and two(357&38)are common enough to pick up most anywhere and it doesn't requires stripping down or heavy maint.
Get rubber grips(Hogue's are great)and use 125 gr hollow points and get about 5 speed loaders .You get what you pay for.

Do you know what the #1 problem police have in a shoot-out? It's the pistol malfunction called a "stove-pipe".

It almost never occurs on practice ranges, it happens quite frequently in actual shoot-outs--1 in every 75 rd or so.

Automatic pistols use at least part of the momentum of the shot to drive the bolt backwards, while expelling the empty shell, at some point in the bolt's forward motion, the new round is chambered. For this to happen correctly, the shooter is expected to "stiff-arm" the pistol, with the elbow straight and locked rigidly against the expected recoil of the shot.

But when the shooter has a bent elbow that isn't rigid (shooting around a corner, shooting off to the left side of his profile, shooting at an elevated target, etc), the spent shell isn't ejected all the way. When the bolt comes forward, it catches the shell and lodges it in the breech, looking like a stovepipe hat (like Abe Lincoln's). Often these can be cleared by hand; but occasionally the stovepiped shell is distorted enough that the gun is rendered inoperable, and must be disassembled.

If you are around elite law enforcement units, you will still see revolvers carried by officers.

The reason is that revolvers don't jam.



Think for yourself and check out whether a revolver serves your particular needs. They are often cheaper.

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
Do you know what the #1 problem police have in a shoot-out? It's the pistol malfunction called a "stove-pipe".

It almost never occurs on practice ranges, it happens quite frequently in actual shoot-outs--1 in every 75 rd or so.

Automatic pistols use at least part of the momentum of the shot to drive the bolt backwards, while expelling the empty shell, at some point in the bolt's forward motion, the new round is chambered. For this to happen correctly, the shooter is expected to "stiff-arm" the pistol, with the elbow straight and locked rigidly against the expected recoil of the shot.

But when the shooter has a bent elbow that isn't rigid (shooting around a corner, shooting off to the left side of his profile, shooting at an elevated target, etc), the spent shell isn't ejected all the way. When the bolt comes forward, it catches the shell and lodges it in the breech, looking like a stovepipe hat (like Abe Lincoln's). Often these can be cleared by hand; but occasionally the stovepiped shell is distorted enough that the gun is rendered inoperable, and must be disassembled.

If you are around elite law enforcement units, you will still see revolvers carried by officers.

The reason is that revolvers don't jam.


Y
Think for yourself and check out whether a revolver serves your particular needs. They are often cheaper.

edit on 28-3-2012 by dr_strangecraft because: (no reason given)

Well actually they DO jam,just not as often as an auto,hence my suggestion that a beginner never pick an auto for a first primary defensive handgun.
Ever seen a revolver cylinder keep turning if a primer backs out?A good Taurus or Ruger can be had under 500 and often going much cheaper in pawn shops when some misguided soul trades for a glock

We inherited our guns, so didn't choose them, but I'm looking at getting a Glock 19, 9mm myself. In a SHTF scenario, the ammo will be easier to find since it's a standard for law enforcement, and it has enough stopping power to be serviceable. They just have a nice feel to them too, and good ammo capacity. A great all-purpose weapon.

So far though, we have a Ruger 38 revolver that is nice, and even goes in an old-fashioned gunslinger style holster for it. (kind of fits the pic of me in my avatar, hehe).

Add my vote to the Glock 19 list; it is my EDC and in upwards of 1000+ rounds, the one and only malfunction i've had with it has been with an aftermarket magazine. Using the factory mag and quality ammo, it has never once failed to fire, eject, or feed.

Regarding the above post about stovepipes, with Glocks that has more to do with the wrist and grip than it does with the arms. I stand using a modified weaver, both hands gripping the gun (most of the gripping being done by my left hand leaving the right fingers free for good trigger control), and I have never once experienced a stovepipe. If you let the weapon flip up too much with the recoil, you will have that problem. But with a good hold on the gun, you won't. The control is in the wrists, not the elbows.

Originally posted by RidgeWalker

Regarding the above post about stovepipes, with Glocks that has more to do with the wrist and grip than it does with the arms. I stand using a modified weaver, both hands gripping the gun (most of the gripping being done by my left hand leaving the right fingers free for good trigger control), and I have never once experienced a stovepipe. If you let the weapon flip up too much with the recoil, you will have that problem. But with a good hold on the gun, you won't. The control is in the wrists, not the elbows.

You are right, it is more in the wrist than in the elbow.



My concern is firefights. Having a gun that works even when I hold it wrong, or don't have time, or am too shocked by escalating events to go into my rehearsed stance. Those times happen when you don't have time or space to assume a proper stance, are crouched behind cover, or you have no backup.



That's why I rely on a revolver.

reply to post by dr_strangecraft


...Which is why practice and muscle memory are of the utmost importance.

A couple years ago I had a situation happen at work that illustrated to me just how much adrenalin can affect your ability to do simple tasks. I work on a drilling rig. Late one night one of my cat engines starting spewing white smoke, not only from the exhaust, but also from the heads. Fearing that a million dollar engine was about to become junk iron on my watch, I rushed to the nearest phone to alert the driller so he could position the drill pipe where it wouldn't cause problems when I shut the engine down. Because I was having the normal physical effects of high stress (elevated heart rate, breathing, etc), i was unable for several seconds to press the two buttons necessary to place the phone call. This was something I've done literally hundreds of time, yet in a high-stress scenario it proved difficult.

Training, training, training, training. Developing muscle memory and habit is the only thing that will work in a combat situation.

I remember Katrina.

I'll be laughing at all you Glock owners when the military rouge or otherwise breaks in your door to take your gun away.

What you really want is protection for your family and some means to kill animals for food. This can be accomplished with homemade handguns and other firearms - legal and not subject to seizure

There are many books, websites and free info dedicated to these types of weapons. Many can be quickly taken apart and the parts have dual uses - no one ever know it's part of a gun who doesn't have to know.

I love my SportKing 22 long 4 inch barreled rifled semi auto pistol - doesn't even have to be registered in my state and can be one of the most powerful legal handguns you can own without a permit/registration. This I'm afraid will get taken away. I'm planning to make a few homemade guns for backup.

post removed by dr_s: too many factual errors to submit.

+1 Ridgewalker

Do any of you "Never use a Semi Auto" guys have any factual sources for the information you're posting? If I'm not mistaken, Group, Ace & SAS are all running Semi's as secondaries, but hey they're just Tier-1 Operators, wth do they know?...lol Someone stated something about SWAT guys running revolvers, can you name the agency? I know of 1 guy personally that carries a S&W 360PD SOB as a BUG & that's it , that's the ONLY guy out of a few hundred officers I deal with. A good 75% of guys carrying BUG's are carrying G27's & G30's.

The fact is this, the revolver is past it's prime as a service pistol , Glock put it to bed 20+ years ago. I know some of you may hold a sweet spot in your heart for it, but sooner or later you'll have to face reality. I have NEVER had a malfunction in any of my semi pistols that wasn't user induced or a bad primer, I let my cousin try my Beretta PX4 .45, he limp wristed it and it FTE'd. He was holding it all "cup and saucer" like , I showed him a proper thumbs forward grip, explained isometric tension and basically told him to man up and grip the damn thing and viola!, no more issues.

Revolvers have their strong points, easy to use, easy to maintain and can remain loaded for long periods of time with no ill effects. The negatives are capacity and the double action trigger pull. My G17 Carries 17+1 , you would have to reload your wheelgun twice to equal that, and unless you're friggen Jerry Miculek , I can probably double the rounds you put on target with your wheelgun in the same amount of time. Reloads are sub 2 seconds all day.

Revolvers aren't fail proof either, there are guys that have failed to maintain their weapons and have had cylinders seize up and I know of a guy personally that had to have his revolver cut out of his leather.

I like revolvers, they're great to hunt with and fun to shoot at the range, but when I see the silly $%&@ that some of you are saying, someones gotta call B.S.

reply to post by EyesWideShut


You are right without a doubt. You obviously know more than I do.

Are semis superior guns? Personally, I think the question depends on how you plan to use one. This thread is about a "quintessential pistol for SHTF." In my mind, that includes equipping a family member who may not be comfortable or have wide experience with firearms. I may be giving them a gun and minimal instruction on how to maintain it. I think a revolver meets those needs a hell of a lot better than a semi with 30 different parts, and springs that have to be re-assembled "just so" or they'll fly off or put an eye out before you get the grips back on.

We all have our prejudices though.

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
reply to post by EyesWideShut

 

You are right without a doubt. You obviously know more than I do.

Are semis superior guns? Personally, I think the question depends on how you plan to use one. This thread is about a "quintessential pistol for SHTF." In my mind, that includes equipping a family member who may not be comfortable or have wide experience with firearms. I may be giving them a gun and minimal instruction on how to maintain it. I think a revolver meets those needs a hell of a lot better than a semi with 30 different parts, and springs that have to be re-assembled "just so" or they'll fly off or put an eye out before you get the grips back on.

We all have our prejudices though.

Put an eye out!?! lol, I'm not Ralphie, and this isn't "A Christmas Story"

I plan to use a semi the same way I'd use a revolver, I get a good grip, sight picture and alignment then apply even pressure on the trigger until the shot breaks.

I fully understand what the thread is about, I also believe that it's your responsibility to train whichever family member you plan on giving a firearm. This is something that should have been done already. I'm going to assume you haven't taken this family member to the range either , so giving someone with questionable marksmanship skills 5-6 shots on a double action revolver with a 10-14 lb trigger while under stress isn't exactly a recipe for success. I personally don't own any semi's with 30 different parts to fieldstrip , nor do any of the springs have to be re assembled "just so" , The only pistols I own that have grips that are removable are my 1911's , and they don't need to come off for a fieldstrip.

Do you even own any semi-autos? Because you're coming across as very ignorant in that area, I have revolvers and semi's so I'm fairly locked on in both areas. I'm not myopic when it comes to these things, but it bothers me when people give bad advice on an open forum. Ask anyone who's a trainer or uses a pistol as a daily tool to recommend a first handgun and you'll almost universally hear the Glock 19 come up time and time again, for all of the reasons I and others mentioned earlier in the thread.

Here's a vid of a guy stripping and assembling a glock 1 handed in under 30 seconds. If you can't manage to do that with both hands without time constraints , I don't know what to tell ya...

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by Chad_Thomas89

 

.40 caliber Glock (I like the G27 personally but G23 is nice too).

This seems to fit all of your criteria well. 40 caliber has better stopping power than a 9mm, holds sufficient rounds, very accurate, and all Glocks are easy to strip and maintain as well as very durable.

Just my $.02

edit on 7-3-2012 by seabag because: (no reason given)

While a glock is fine pistol, I do like them but the only thing I don't like is the angle of the grip that makes you point downward from a quick draw of your weapon. I've shot really accurate with glocks but in a self defense situation I want my sights to line up quickly from the draw and not be pointed at the attackers feet. 1911 style grips are more straight and thus allow with proper grip for the sights to be damn near where your fingers are pointing. For a first timer I'd go with the G17 or G19 because you're going to have a higher accuracy in 9mm versus G27 or G23 in a .40 due to less recoil and while .40 does have more stopping power I've never seen anybody keep going after getting hit in the chest with a 9mm.

But you're talking about a concealed every day carry correct? If so a Glock 17 or 19 might be a big too big for most people to conceal properly and most people sacrifice accuracy and get a compact pistol with a shorter barrel for EDC. If this is the case you might want to look at something like the Ruger LC9 or similar compacts but I'd avoid going with Taurus.

My SHTF pistol is actually a XD 9mm Tactical with a 5" barrel simply because they're not picky on what kind of ammo, and they have a really good record for reliability (maybe not as good as Glock) but glock doesn't offer any pistol with a 5" barrel either. XD's also have the type of grip that's more straight of a angle versus the glock, this angle effects how the recoil is felt and makes me quicker at getting back on target with follow up shots. And with a 5" barrel the accuracy is amazing. The only disadvantage to the XD's is the pistol grip safety which some people fail to engage while quickly drawing the weapon or under stress.

Also the factory sights on Glock's suck, so you'll be looking at spending another $100 to get some decent night sights, some of the XD models like the one I have come with night sights.