America / USA's Debt is worse than Greece

The office of Senator Jeff Sessions, ranking member on the Senate Budget Committee, sends along this chart, showing that 'America’s Per Capita Government Debt Worse Than Greece,' as well as Ireland, Italy, France, Portugal, and Spain:
(Click link here www.weeklystandard.com... to see the chart)

reply to post by anthonygillespie2012
Where Greece has the EU, we just have the Federal Reserve.

But this is a great example of the end result of Keynesian economics.

You can't spend your way out of debt.

reply to post by anthonygillespie2012 The chart is good but the statement that Obama is behind this is bogus. Were the republicans just going to let the country collapse? No, they may have did things a little different but would still have spent about the same. Noone can easily fix this mess we're in. Sure the Republicans can say they could have, what else do you expect them to say. Ask one of the meeker Republican congressmen what they think, pick one who is honest if one exists.

I remember a video a while back from the US Accountabilities Office explaining that the US wasn't going to be able to afford the payments off their debt and social benefits while maintaining the current government.

Honestly, they US needs to change their banking systems or change the way they spend their money. The situation is getting worse.

Go Ron Paul!

No surprise there the U.S. is so far down the drain its irrecoverable.

reply to post by Brandon88


BS, that's what they want you to think, we are just setting the motions for another campaign. We always divert are attentions to problems like this before we go to war.

reply to post by chisisiCoptos


I agree with you but in this case I think its both. Their running out of money and just like the other wars they'll try and use it to recover the economy, but unlike the other times we are literally on E. There's no way to go around the problem their faced with right now.

Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by anthonygillespie2012 The chart is good but the statement that Obama is behind this is bogus. Were the republicans just going to let the country collapse? No, they may have did things a little different but would still have spent about the same. Noone can easily fix this mess we're in. Sure the Republicans can say they could have, what else do you expect them to say. Ask one of the meeker Republican congressmen what they think, pick one who is honest if one exists.

 

I completely agree. I thought that the charts were interesting but the the sources of information (IMF Data, 2013 Budget Summary Tables and Senate Budget Committee calculations) were just too ambiguous - where, exactly, can one find this so called data? Plus the statement that "Under President Obama's plan, gross federal debt alone would reach $75.000 per capita in 2022" made the writer's political bias too painfully obvious.

I'm not personally an Obama fan but let's get real - this mess is a compilation of years of mismanagement and both political parties are equally to blame. Just so happens that a Democrat is at the helm right now and will end up taking the blame but it's a mess they're all responsible for.

I agree but I also know from experience "the US Military is well funded into the next millennium", if anything, we could always ask the Army or the Navy for a Trillion Dollar loan to help the civilian economy. I got friends in the military making real good money!

Unless Iran strikes first, and hard, they will never build up enough support to start another war. People in the military are going to walk away.

reply to post by anthonygillespie2012


Senators are morons.

Stupid law makers making laws and they don't even know all the existing ones.

Do you think if we locked up all the lawmakers in one place and did not let them out until they wrote down all the existing laws word for word from memory that they would actually live long enough to accomplish the task?

Fact: There is not enough currency in circulation (by design) for each American to pay off their fair share of the national debt.

Fact: It is illegal for me (or any citizen) to print off our own money because it would be counterfeit.

Fact: Legally Americans cannot do anything because of the above two facts.

Not my problem. The ____ has hit the fan.


nuff said.

Yes indeed there are going to be ups and downs in the economy and maybe even a total crash but the US Military is doing better than ever now with more and more power every day. Some of my friends have been in since 1990 and high up enough now to convince me that things are great on that end. We will pull out of this, we always do.

reply to post by anthonygillespie2012


Per Capita is a pretty stupid way to measure debt. In reality you have to measure (if per capita) by Personal Income. Total outstanding debt vs. personal income.

Of course there is actually only one relevant way to calculate Government debt and that is Debt vs. Revenue. The same way we measure personal debts.. what is the total outstanding government debt vs. revenue.

Let's break it down:

Fiscal Year 2011 USA Government Revenue: $2.3T
Fiscal Year 2011 USA Government Spending: $3.6T
Fiscal Year 2011 USA Government Deficit: $1.3T

Or 156% of total revenue.

Fiscal Year 2011 Greek Government Revenue: $90B Euros
Fiscal Year 2011 Greek Government Spending: $114B Euros
Fiscal Year 2011 Greek Government Deficit: $24B Euros

Or 126% of total revenue.

That would make the United States significantly worse off than Greece. Of course.. the United States can Monetize it's debt (print money, buy it's own treasuries, pay back the interest and call it a profit)

Now consider this.. The power of fraud:

The United States bailed out Freddie Mae and Freddie Mac, two privately owned corporations, with public stock. The companies benefit no one but share holders and employees of the company.

Total bailout size: $400 billion dollars.

Greece, a country of 10.7 million people.. runs a deficit of $24 billion euros. ($32.2 billion dollars)

We could finance the entire Greek deficit for 12 and a half years, benefiting the lives of millions of people... just in the amount that we gave TWO PRIVATE corporations.

I find it a fascinating display of Human psychology.. I'm not advocating bailing out Greece.. but the scope of the Bailouts vs. the garbage the Euro Zone is calling a "dire situation" is well ....... fascinating.

It doesn't really matter how you calculate it. There is not enough money in circulation to pay off the debt. If every single American, gave 100% of their money (from income, savings, whatever) to the government, it would not pay off the existing debt.

If the national debt started out with one dollar, then one dollar plus interest would be owed and there wouldn't be enough existing money to pay it off because the dollar only came into existence as debt.