Lies, Taxes, and Drugs (the legal ones)

To bring you up to speed... I've been following this "roll your own" cigarette issue because I'm a smoker and it affects me and my wallet. I'm saving at least $20 a carton rolling them myself, and if I smoked a premium brand that number goes up to almost $40 a carton I'm saving. Thats quite a bit of money thats going towards other needed things that aren't taxed to the gills.


Now the rant.... When I was growing up (already a smoker) and they kept raising taxes, and they had this huge ANTI SMOKING campaign going, and they insisted they were raising taxes on cigarettes to deter smokers. And it worked somewhat now didn't it?

per wiki

From 1965 to 2006, rates of smoking in the United States declined from 42% to 20.8%

Now they're complaining because the people who have not quit smoking, found a cheaper way to smoke. Their argument is that "its money that could've been paid in taxes".

Personally, I freakin knew it. I knew it all along. Back in the late 80's I was saying to everyone, "they're getting used to these taxes, what are they going to do when everyone quits? thats income lost..."


This article "Bill Would Eliminate Tax Loophole" claims that they're losing between 2 and 10 million in taxes....

So which is it? They want our money or they want us to be healthy? freakin pick one (rhetoric, forehead-slap)

This article "How much did the gov spend last year" shows varying numbers (with explanation to why they're different numbers), and all of them are in excess of 3 trillion US$. Seriously? and our measly $2M and/or $10M (lets make it easy and say $12M) is making a big difference?


WE KNOW THE RISKS
WE KNOW ITS A BAD HABIT
WE'RE SMOKING ANYWAY
Luckily, most of our kids are not.

Just leave us alone. FFS



Links just in case
Wiki Tobacco Smoking
2-24-12 Chicago CBS Local: Bill Would Eliminated Tax Loophole
2-25-12 WTAQ News, WI: Injunction Ordered in Cigarette Rolling Machine Lawsuit
2-23-12 Peoria Star: Senate Holds off on bill to license rolling machines
2-24-12 Indiana News Center: Roll your own - This one is mostly to explain what it is - briefly from the article

“Roll Your Own” is the subject of controversy in both Illinois and West Virginia right now. Some have argued that Roll Your Own allows shop owners and customers to avoid a tax that is otherwise placed on more common packs of cigarettes. Two local operators say there is no tax avoidance. They say the tobacco, because it is labeled as pipe tobacco, falls under a different taxable rate.

Just got into rolling my own recently, the costs for 1 carton for me has gone from $30/carton (online price) to about $8/carton for rolling my own. Some people just over the border are paying around $80 per carton.
It's much harsher than my old brand, the pipe tobacco that is, thinking about going old school and using a pipe to avoid all the crap in the filters. That will make my costs about $6 per carton!

All this propaganda to get us to quit smoking, why? Why cigarettes and not fluoride, aspartame, HFCS, GMOs, mercury tooth fillings, toxic preservatives, reptilian aliens, etc. etc.?

hi op

ive been a roller since secondary school
(you could also buy singles at some shops)
i smoke a brand called Amber leaf for several yrs now)

ive also been looking at this

How long can you go on paying good money for tobacco that can just as easily be produced at home?

Growing your own is not against the law, no matter where you live. And let's face it, the price of tobacco is never going down, is it?

www.tobaccoseed.co.uk...

There are so many articles about it. Tons of food for thought.

If I understand correctly, what they're trying to do is make anyone who uses the machine be forced to have a "manufacturers license". If you have that license and you use the machine to roll those cigarettes, you are subject to the taxes. Federal tax would be approximately $10.10 per carton, and state tax varies. Some are really low, but in PA where I live, state cig tax is $13.50 per carton - that means I'm saving a MINIMUM of $23.60 when I roll my own. Thanks Gawd I don't live in Jersey where its $25.75 a carton. The main focus of most of my articles are Illinois and Michigan which are $9.80 and $20.00 respectively.

The lowest would be South Carolina at only $0.70 per carton - Rock on SC!!!

There's a whole list you can find here - USA Today - the article is about 2 years old from what appears to be the most recent tax hike.

reply to post by Forevever

I recently discovered this stuff recently, additive free tobacco. They even have organic in their range although not available here in Holland.
en.wikipedia.org...
It costs more than regular tobacco but is 100% pure tobacco, nothing added. No sugar, no cocoa, no glycerol, nothing. It took me a little while to get used to it (it's a little dryer than regular chemical tobacco) and unfortunately I can't buy it locally but I can recommend it like no other. It's owned by one of the major tobacco players, I forget which.

ETA And to keep it just a little bit conspiratorial too, if you buy and smoke their organic tobacco, you should avoid many cancer risks. Cancer in lungs is caused by the (deliberate) contamination in the fertilisers they use to feed them. The fertiliser contains small amounts of lead-210 and polonium 210. This is documented fact but was kinda buried in the tobacco co's archives for as long as possible.
en.wikipedia.org...
This is THE major cause of lung cancer.

I've been smoking electronically for over 3 years now!

Sure, I miss the real thing now and then, but...

My smoking costs went from about $2000.00 a year, to about $200.00.

After the initial investment in equipment that is...

reply to post by LightSpeedDriver


you know that reminds me of something else I was reading (couldn't find it now but) it all makes sense and fits and reminds me of a line in Pulp Fiction (referencing something else of course)


its legal to buy tobacco seed and grow it in your front lawn - its legal to smoke or sell anything you grow there - but its not legal for you to roll it because then you're a manufacturer and evading taxes...

reply to post by Forevever

I vaguely remember being told as a child that there was a plant limit. No more than 5 but I could be wrong, I was a very young (non-smoking) child at the time. Now however, they expect you to pay duty on any and all tobacco grown at home for personal consumption. An EU directive. I think the UK might be a little too wet and cold to grow good tobacco but I could be wrong on that too. It's not something I;d be likely to try even though I do smoke.
Link to letter from Customs and Excise

reply to post by LightSpeedDriver


har! I wouldn't try it anyway, you know it wouldn't be the same - I don't have any of the additives that make my store bought ones so yummy