Guns In Space. Some Interesting Facts.

Thought this was pretty cool. I hope all the gun gurus enjoy it.

www.space.com...

For those who don't think it's possible.

Fires can't burn in the oxygen-free vacuum of space, but guns can shoot. Modern ammunition contains its own oxidizer, a chemical that will trigger the explosion of gunpowder, and thus the firing of a bullet, wherever you are in the universe. No atmospheric oxygen required.

I know alot of you are asking: Why do they carry guns in space.

Guns do actually get carried to space, though not quite to the void between galaxies. For decades, the standard survival pack for Russian cosmonauts has included a gun. Until recently, it wasn't just any gun, but "a deluxe all-in-one weapon with three barrels and a folding stock that doubles as a shovel and contains a swing-out machete," according to space historian James Oberg. The space guns are issued in case the cosmonauts need one back on Earth, so that they can protect themselves if emergency landing of their Soyuz spacecraft has left them deserted in a treacherous region. But still, cosmonauts in theory could shoot their guns before they landed.

You can even shoot yourself in the back

Such a scenario isn't as absurd as it sounds. In fact, Schultz said scientists at one point were considering setting up such a self-hit in space in order to investigate the effects of high-speed impacts.

However, considering all the math involved, Cuk suggests it might be easier to commit space suicide by standing on a mountain on the moon. "'Shooting yourself in the back' works in principle if you shoot a bullet at horizon from the top of a lunar mountain, at 1600 meters per second or so," he said. He thinks it just might work as long as you adjust your aim to account for lumps and irregularities in the shape of the moon, which would affect the altitude of the bullet as it travels.

Your Thoughts?

After a few gunfights in space there would be so many bullets flying around forever. They would pose an additional navigation hazard like small asteroids.

Once when I was on the moon I hit a small rock at 6,000 meters with my trusty .22 rifle.
Your range is exceptional and the bullet drop is very little.

I wouldn't rule out space boarding parties if sneak attacks a possibility. Boarding an asteroid mine and or fortress? Oh man, boarding a micro-gravity asteroid fortress, especially if it has been specifically designed to defend against invaders, would be so awful. Probably would want powered armour and lots of gun drones and explosives for that

Guns in space?? look up Rods of God..
based on the Tangusta effect.

Very interesting, this thread deserves more flags!

I think it is pretty suspicious about the astronauts carrying guns into space. What is that all about?

Originally posted by 11I11
Very interesting, this thread deserves more flags!

I think it is pretty suspicious about the astronauts carrying guns into space. What is that all about?

My honest opinion is that the soviets carry guns for the same reason that the us supposedly issue synaide tablets to our astronaughts. For one of those "No possible way to come home mission failures." But that's just my opinion.

Originally posted by 11I11
...I think it is pretty suspicious about the astronauts carrying guns into space. What is that all about?

Yes... On the one hand, I can see that if I was one of the ones going on the first mission to the moon, I would bring a gun "just in case".
I'm actually surprised that the folk on the Moon Bases let cosmonauts bring guns to the moon. I think it was idiotronic or someone that was saying in an earlier thread about how the "inhabitants" of the bases have families living with them up there.

When I was in 6th grade, early 90's I got to go to Space Camp. At one point or another I remember discussing the gun issue, one of the things they told us was that a gun can help propel you, by firing it, the force could help push you if you jump in the air.

reply to post by usmc0311


That is very reassuring to know. I will carry my gun with me the next time I leave this planet.

Cool find.

Peace

Pop quiz: A 140gr. bullet leaves the muzzle of your rifle with a speed of 600 m/s. You weigh 100 pounds....how fast are you moving away from your spaceship because you forgot to secure yourself?

I have heard one story that when America landed on the moon they did see some aliens up their. Since they did not have any guns with them then, they where ordered not to introduce themselves in case they where hostile.

reply to post by mwood


It would be cool to go up and do some long range competition shooting. Instead of 1000 yard shots we'd be taking 50 mile shots.

reply to post by usmc0311


Presuming you are standing on the surface of a planet, or other celestial body, the rules of gravity will influence a projectile same as on Earth....just, different rates of gravitational acceleration.

The (fictitious) example of the Moon mentioned above, for example: Just as on Earth, if you fire a bullet from a gun that is perfectly parallel to the surface (and assuming a perfectly flat surface....no obstructions), and dropped a bullet from the same height as the barrel of the projectile, so that it free fell....both bullets will hit the ground at the same time.

The bullet in motion will describe an arc, but will still drop vertically a the same rate as the bullet being dropped.

On the Moon, the difference is in the (slightly) longer time it takes to drop, due to the lower acceleration due to gravity....so the bullet being fired will travel farther as a result.

If you were somewhere with VERY light gravity (medium-sized asteroid, for example) (and all of this ignores effects of any atmospheric drag, of course).....in a very low-G situation, the bullet you fire could theoretically exceed the escape velocity of the body itself....thus, that bullet would never fall back down, but would continue on a trajectory....even if it would follow a trajectory in an arc, as influenced by whatever gravity there exists.

Counter-intuitive, but just physics.

reply to post by usmc0311


Guns dont work well in vacuums. Guns have moving parts, and those parts need to be lubricated with oil (or sometimes grease). But in a vacuum, its -453 degrees or something, meaning the oil will freeze. The gun will fire, since the hammer is spring operated, but the heat generated, warming the oil back to liquid form, will cause the oil to boil off very rapidly as the atmospheric pressure (none) has dropped below its vapor pressure.

After a few shots with no lubrication at all, the gun will act like a vehicle engine run dry with no oil; it will seize up due to some parts expanding from the heat while other parts with less heat are not expanding as much.

That, and if you fire a gun thats more than 400 degrees below zero, youd probably shatter it from the explosion of the gunpowder, it would be so brittle. Come to think of it, on that point, the spring would probably break at that temperature anyway, but if it didnt and it did swing the hammer, other stuff like the firing pin and hammer itself might shatter too.

reply to post by ProudBird


Oh I know all about ballistics, I was just being sarcastic in the earlier response. But thanks for the info anyway. It would be interesting to experiment with ballistics on other bodies though. Maybe someday there will be Interplanetary Ballistics Experts to answer the many questions.

reply to post by CaticusMaximus


That was one of my thoughts as well, what would happen to a firearm exposed to the vacuum of space. It would be cool do design a rig where only the tip of the barrel is exposed and give it a try though.

reply to post by usmc0311


Another interesting thing; if the gun was in the presence of the sun with nothing to buffer the energy (like air), one half would be -450 degrees, and the other half would be +500 or something

Definitely looking a broken gun right there! (and a smoldering space suit glove)

Anyone here ever watch the show Firefly? In one episode the character Jayne put is favorite rifle in a pressurized suit so that he could carry it with him while traversing the vacuum between two ships in deep space. He fired the weapon at close range through the suit's visor and was able to crack a view port on the enemy ship, causing rapid depressurization. I always thought that was good, accurate, writing.

Whenever those competition shoots get set up on the 50 mile range on the moon, I'm in. Gonna need some better optics though - 3x isn't going to cut it.

Originally posted by usmc0311
reply to post by mwood

 

It would be cool to go up and do some long range competition shooting. Instead of 1000 yard shots we'd be taking 50 mile shots.

edit on 23/2/12 by usmc0311 because: added content.

Yup, htat would be amazing.

reply to post by usmc0311


I'd say that's not a good idea either way; what happens when the bullet causes a breach, and the shuttle decompresses. I say if we ever get to that level of technology where we have shuttle boarding parties, we just stick to swords and knives.