Ancient Perisa Rising - Trilatral Summit - Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan

Originally posted by ntech
... And if you think about it wouldn't Washington DC make a great 21st century "realm of Greece"? Remember the prophesies of Daniel are visions of a future distant to 500 BC approximately. He is using similes here to get what he saw across. "Greece" may not be a nation. It's a description. It looked Greek to him.

But the logic of the opening post was that the prophecy would apply to the same area that was originally named.

So if "Persia" means the area known as Persia in Daniel's time, then "Greece" means the area known as Greece in Daniel's time.
Alternatively, if we can shift "Greece" to another part of the world, we can shift "Persia" to another part of the world as well.
Which way do we play it?

Best not be too trigger happy with prophecies. They are warnings of a distant future ONLY IF we failed to correct errors.

It would be BETTER if prophecies that warns of doom and destruction remained unfulfilled and will never come true, for it would only mean mankind had failed.

Herod did the horrifying crime of trying to avert the arrival of the Messiah by murdering babies. Many innocents died under his hand. He did not want the ancient prophecy fulfilled, and yet he failed. This is most certainly NOT the way to avert prophecy.

The right way is to acknowledge our errors and correct them, NOT continue on with our errors and find shortcuts.

Nietzsch claimed that there is no right or wrong way, only your way or my way. He was the philosophy teacher of the madman Hitler who adored him, and yet that madman had to haul Nietzsch to an asylum later when Nietzsch's madness was evident and forgone, too far for even a fellow madman to accept. So is one gonna accept the philosophy of a madman?

Better we find the correct way, or doom only awaits.

And we best be not too happy with the 2nd comming of the Messiah. There is no prophecy of a 3rd return....

It means that the 2nd comming will be the end for a significant portion of mankind when he returns. We mankind would have then failed, with the cries of humanity suffering from the deprediations of the evil so strong that destruction of mankind is the only solution left.

Those whom are pious will presume themselves saved, and cared not a fig for others, not even their own kin. These will be the ones whom will happily look forward to the return, totally misunderstanding the true message which is love for others, and will not be saved.

Those whom are evil know they will not be spared and will only continue to get as good as it gets while the going is still good to get.

But the ones whom will be saved will be ones who cares for our common Creator's creations. His love is strong in us, that we will not want to leave anyone behind, even if it means the end of our own precious lives. We...may not even want to be saved if it means leaving our loved ones behind, whom may had made mistakes and finally saw the light and seeking for a chance....The irony of it...

The end is still not here yet. There still is a chance. We can prevent the end, by doing the right thing. If we failed, we will only have doom ourselves by our own hands and technologies...

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by ntech
... And if you think about it wouldn't Washington DC make a great 21st century "realm of Greece"? Remember the prophesies of Daniel are visions of a future distant to 500 BC approximately. He is using similes here to get what he saw across. "Greece" may not be a nation. It's a description. It looked Greek to him.

But the logic of the opening post was that the prophecy would apply to the same area that was originally named.

So if "Persia" means the area known as Persia in Daniel's time, then "Greece" means the area known as Greece in Daniel's time.
Alternatively, if we can shift "Greece" to another part of the world, we can shift "Persia" to another part of the world as well.
Which way do we play it?

Prophesies only work if you manipulate reality enough to fit them. If the facts do not fit the prophecy then reinterpret them until they do. The fact that Iran and Pakistan hate each other and have fought a proxy war against each other in Afganistan for decades is easly forgotten when you need them to be on the same side for a prophecy that could not even predict Persia would be gone.

Also I like to add it seems that those Middle East nations group up at some point only to fight each other again, this is why the UN does not trust places like Iran and Iraq to go nuclear because they will only kill each other and the world along with it.

Armageddon is in Babylon Iraq attacking from the East to the West, not West attacking East.
The West wants to stop WW3 or have a say on it so America builds bases in order to keep everything on track, if they wanted to take over they could have done long ago. In fact Britain gave Iraq to the Muslims after the Ottomans fell through in WW1 and Paslestine was no man's land, it was not a country or a culture so it became Israel given by the British. The Italians left Libya and the colonies left Africa at a time when world populations were growing.

It is said Babylon/Iraq must rise first, it will become the richest place on earth untill it falls.

Maybe Gog and Magog happens first then Babylon rises from it then when that falls there will be Armageddon.

Some interesting prophecy quotes from the Bible, the endtime nations seem to start from the Middle East and may spread to the once they are destroyed, but it will take an anti-christ figure to get the world to fight Israel after those events, otherwise future nations would stand off or the leaders of the world no longer look to God for guidence.
________________________________________________________________

Zechariah 12
The Coming Deliverance of Judah
(1 The burden[a] of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him: 2 “Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of drunkenness to all the surrounding peoples, when they lay siege against Judah and Jerusalem. 3 And it shall happen in that day that I will make Jerusalem a very heavy stone for all peoples; all who would heave it away will surely be cut in pieces, though all nations of the earth are gathered against it.)
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Psalm 83
A song. A psalm of Asaph.

See how your enemies growl,
how your foes rear their heads.
3 With cunning they conspire against your people;
they plot against those you cherish.
4 “Come,” they say, “let us destroy them as a nation,
so that Israel’s name is remembered no more.”

5 With one mind they plot together;
they form an alliance against you—
6 the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites,
of Moab and the Hagrites,
7 Byblos, Ammon and Amalek,
Philistia, with the people of Tyre.
8 Even Assyria has joined them
to reinforce Lot’s descendants.
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Isaiah 17
Proclamation Against Syria and Israel

1 The burden against Damascus.
“ Behold, Damascus will cease from being a city,
And it will be a ruinous heap.
2 The cities of Aroer are forsaken
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Jeremiah 49
Judgment on Damascus

23 Against Damascus.
“ Hamath and Arpad are shamed,
For they have heard bad news.
They are fainthearted;
There is trouble on the sea;
It cannot be quiet.
24 Damascus has grown feeble;
She turns to flee,
And fear has seized her.
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Amos 1
Judgment on the Nations

3 Thus says the LORD:
“ For three transgressions of Damascus, and for four,
I will not turn away its punishment,
Because they have threshed Gilead with implements of iron.

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Joshua 11:22
None of the Anakim were left in the land of the children of Israel; they remained only in Gaza, in Gath, and in Ashdod.
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Zephaniah 2
Judgment on Nations

4 For Gaza shall be forsaken,
And Ashkelon desolate;
They shall drive out Ashdod at noonday,
And Ekron shall be uprooted.
5 Woe to the inhabitants of the seacoast,
The nation of the Cherethites!
The word of the LORD is against you,
O Canaan, land of the Philistines:
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Ezekiel 30
A Lament Over Egypt

1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 “Son of man, prophesy and say: ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says:

“‘Wail and say,
“Alas for that day!”
3 For the day is near,
the day of the LORD is near—
a day of clouds,
a time of doom for the nations.
4 A sword will come against Egypt,
and anguish will come upon Cush.[a]
When the slain fall in Egypt,
her wealth will be carried away
and her foundations torn down.

5 Cush and Libya, Lydia and all Arabia, Kub and the people of the covenant land will fall by the sword along with Egypt.

6 “‘This is what the LORD says:

“‘The allies of Egypt will fall
and her proud strength will fail.
From Migdol to Aswan
they will fall by the sword within her,
declares the Sovereign LORD.
7 “‘They will be desolate
among desolate lands,
and their cities will lie
among ruined cities.
8 Then they will know that I am the LORD,
when I set fire to Egypt
and all her helpers are crushed.

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by ntech
... And if you think about it wouldn't Washington DC make a great 21st century "realm of Greece"? Remember the prophesies of Daniel are visions of a future distant to 500 BC approximately. He is using similes here to get what he saw across. "Greece" may not be a nation. It's a description. It looked Greek to him.

But the logic of the opening post was that the prophecy would apply to the same area that was originally named.

So if "Persia" means the area known as Persia in Daniel's time, then "Greece" means the area known as Greece in Daniel's time.
Alternatively, if we can shift "Greece" to another part of the world, we can shift "Persia" to another part of the world as well.
Which way do we play it?

Trying to be scientific here.

Are we in or near the time of the end? After examining Matthew 24-14 and Hosea 6-2 I would say yes.

Matthew 24-14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Per Jesus Christ this event is the very first event of the Apocalypse. While it's not possible to figure out when this event happened another event did happen that would prove that it did. That event was the birth of the nation of Israel in 1948. Predicted in multiple places in the bible. That event would be an end time event. A "fig leaf" of the parable in Matthew 24. And based on that event and Matthew 24 it appears that a timer started. The lifetime of the "generation" of verse 34. The Apocalypse is going to be at least 64 in May.

Now Daniel claims it has prophesies about the time of the end. Therefore we should be watching for events that match the prophesies. So according to Daniel verse 11-2 is an early event of the time of the end. The events of 9-11 match the prophecy nicely. Attributing the "realm of Greece" is a 500 BC reference to the United States. And the conquering of 2 nations in the middle east are subsequent events. So far Daniel appears to be 3 for 3.

And it appears the next event of the series is the conquering of "Persia". Then the US apparently fractures into 4 nations. Then leading to the creation of 2 new superpowers. The kingdoms of the north and south. Then a treaty is signed and then a war breaks out between the 2 new superpowers. And so on. It would appear that 9-11 was the opening volley of the War of Armageddon. Eventually leading to the final battle 25 years later approximately.

I think there are two Gog and Magog wars and one Armageddon.

Ezekiel 38:
Gog and Magog and Persia and Lydia/Turkey, maybe Russia.
The Jews will come back from the four corners of the world and Gog and Magog breaks out in that

Daniel 9-12
War with endtime Persia and the Angel Michael defends Israel and the the books of judgement are opened which is the second Resurrection after the 1000 years.

Revelation 16:16
Armageddon 200 million army from Eurphaties Babylon and it takes the world 7 years to bury the dead of the enemies as in Ezekiel 39.

Revelation 20
The Thousand Years

The Judgment of Satan

7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The Judgment of the Dead

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

VS

Daniel 12
The End Times

1 “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise[a] will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever. 4 But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.”

2nd Gog and Magog war after the 1000 years of peace when Satan is let loose again.

reply to post by ntech

All I'm suggesting is that if "Greece" doesn't have to be pinned down to the area so named in Daniel's time, then "Persia" doesn't have to be pinned down in that way either.

Matching like for like, "Persia" ought to be the dominant power in its world (which was the case for Achaemenid Persia), and "Greece" ought to be the upstart nation which overthrows it, as Alexander did.
So where are we seeing a dominant power being overthrown by an upstart nation?

If the U.S.A overthrows a smaller nation, that doesn't match what Daniel is talking about, because the situation is the wrong way round.
A better match for Daniel would be if the United States was overthrown by another power, and the other power then split into four parts.

reply to post by DISRAELI

I'm not really trying to analyze the prophecy. I'm merely reporting the similarities between recent history and the prophesies of Daniel. And based on Matthew and Hosea it appears that the Apocalypse should occur and be over with in the 2020s.

Also I think you are trying to read too much of what happened in the first fulfillment of the prophecy to the 2nd. Even if we are seeing a weird repeat of events from the BCE it doesn't need to be exact. Just similar.

Also if you take verse 11-2 out of the equation any country that conquers 2 nations in the middle east would be suspect as to being the "Greece" of the prophecy. 3 for 3 considering the generation is 64 years old is very suspicious.

Originally posted by ntech
Also I think you are trying to read too much of what happened in the first fulfillment of the prophecy to the 2nd. Even if we are seeing a weird repeat of events from the BCE it doesn't need to be exact. Just similar.

It was the opening post that set us on the path of finding a detailed match, viz. "Persia" and Iran.
I haven't been saying, in my response, that we need to match details; only that if we do match details, we ought to be doing it consistently. If we insist on finding significance in the geographical location, that applies just as much to Greece as it does to Persia. If we're content to talk about "similar" powers, that applies just as much to Persia as to Greece.

I've often thought that one of the banes of Revelation interpretation is people finding casual coincidences in isolated details, like red waters or blazing hot suns or the Russian word for "wormwood", and ignoring the fact that these details are found in Revelation with a context and a place in the overall story. It is the overall story that we need to understand before trying to match the details.

I can't help thinking that "fighting involving Persia" is another isolated detail of the same kind. If we want to apply the prophecies in Daniel, we ought to be looking at the overall story.

I think I know the answer to Greece because look at the ancient map in which it is spread over like how ancient Persia was spread over as far up as India.

I just found that Greece was no different and covered Egypt all the way up to India so in a way its the same territory.

Babylon, Persia, Assyrian empires all cover the same territory apart from Rome which covered Europe and North Africa, but they all held Israel as theirs.

reply to post by The time lord

You're looking at a map of Alexander's empire after conquering the Persians, which naturally meant that he absorbed their own empire.
Alexander's realm at the time of attacking the Persians was the area we now call Macedon.

PS Even on that simplified map, "Greece" is marked with diagonal stripes, as against the plain colour of the Persian empire they conquered.

reply to post by DISRAELI


You want the context of my theory on Daniel? Ok. It's really quite simple.

Daniel's prophesies are visions.

Daniel 7
1 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters.
2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night,

Daniel 8
1 In the third year of the reign of king Belshazzar a vision appeared unto me, even unto me Daniel, after that which appeared unto me at the first.
2 And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a vision, and I was by the river of Ulai.

Daniel 10
1 In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia a thing was revealed unto Daniel, whose name was called Belteshazzar; and the thing was true, but the time appointed was long: and he understood the thing, and had understanding of the vision.

What Daniel is having is roughly comparable to having taken a man from 500 BC approximately and showing him the Star Wars movies. And then he is trying to describe what he saw. The big detail to remember is the limited education he has. He may have been a learned man but it's 500 BC. In comparison to us he is missing 2500 years of history. He is describing Star Wars with a bronze age education. Rome was still a collection of mud huts back then.

Perhaps the easiest way to understand 11-2 is to try and recreate the pictures Daniel was seeing. Rebuild the movie. So what was he seeing?

4 kings out of Persia one richer than the rest attacking another country that looked Greek. Here I would assume that Daniel would recognize "Persians". It's the "Greeks" of the prophecy that are in question. Current day Greece is not a power that current day "Persians" would attack. BUT. What did happen was the 9-11 attacks on Washington DC and New York. So if the "movie" he saw had shown him those attacks then how would he have described that attack? And in 30 to 40 words no less. Washington DC would have looked very "Greek" to him. A 21st century Athens probably.

And how would you describe a country that wouldn't exist for another 2300 years. And that was the first seal of Daniel 11.

Daniel 12
4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.
6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?
7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

And another detail. I put Daniel 11-5 and the start of the 7 years as happening around 2018 to 2021.

reply to post by ntech

There's no suggestion in the text that this is how the visions worked, that Daniel did see future events as on a screen and have the task of describing them.
(Remember, ch11 is not Daniel speaking. These are the explanatory words of the angelic figure that began talking to Daniel in the previous chapter)
What Daniel saw was a series of symbols, animal shaped. How do we know what those symbols represent?
Partly by the way they behave. We identify the four-headed leopard with Alexander because its behaviour reminds us of the way Alexander's empire was created.
But also, in the case of the "ram and goat" vision, he identified them as Persia and Greece because he was told that was what they represented.

How do we identify equivalents in the modern world? By situation and behaviour, surely.
On that point, let me observe once again that Persia was the dominant power in its world, and Greece the upstart newcomer. Alexander was not a mighty king at the time he challenged the Persians, only as a result of challenging them.
Therefore a parallel with the U.S. and Iran would only work if we could regard Iran as the mighty power dominating the world, with the U.S as the upstart newcomer.
Unless we do it the other way round; identify the U.S. with Persia, the dominant power, and consider that that it might be overthown by some upstart newcomer.

Ancient Persia Rising - Trilateral Summit - Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan

Title correction of the type error Spelling.