Santorum’s Backer On Birth Control

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by colbe

 

If it doesn't attach to the uterine wall there is no technical conception. Read the definition. Also in a lot of cases the egg isn't permitted to fertilize.

Conception is fertilization AND implantation. A fertilized egg is no more life than an egg or a sperm until it implants.

edit on 17-2-2012 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)

You didn't watch the Youtube.

Your addition "implantation" so you can have all the sex you want...

Life begins at conception. Period. Even Science with modern technology agrees.

reply to post by colbe


No.. because a fertilized egg doesn't begin to grow into anything until plantation occurs, a woman isn't pregnant nor can she become pregnant without plantation. If an egg is fertilized and doesn't implant there is no baby and no chance of one.

Back to why this comment was disgusting. It puts women back about 50 years.

In case some of you time traveled from the 1950's a few days ago here's why:

1. It assumes the woman is responsible for birth control and not the man.
2. It ignores the fact the sometimes birth control is for the health of a woman
3. It also implies that a woman should not want sex for anything else but having babies
4. He is mocking a very serious subject

Here's why it should reflect on Santorum:

1. This guy is giving him tons of money - so it should be expected that Santorum will feel obligated to take follow his ethics
2. Though he didn't make a joke - Santorum holds the exact same views

reply to post by Daughter2


Santorum doesn't need this guys help to look bad. Santorum himself said he would have his daughter give birth to a baby even if it was conceived during a rape. This wasn't a back page statement either, there is video of it from an interview.

I agree with everything you said though. It was an ignorant thing for that old man to say. Birth control can be prescribed for acne as well, for chaotic and painful menstruation, and I think in some cases depression (or maybe it causes it in some cases, I'm a dude so I don't remember). These religious people are crazy though, whoever included sex in the bible is a jerk. It's natural and it's good for us and one of the few great pleasures in life. Women shouldn't be expected to avoid it because they might get pregnant that's retarded.

Isn't it scary that a potential world leader could be so uptight about sex, one of the most natural things in the world. Why are republicans so fixated on it?

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by colbe

 

No.. because a fertilized egg doesn't begin to grow into anything until plantation occurs, a woman isn't pregnant nor can she become pregnant without plantation. If an egg is fertilized and doesn't implant there is no baby and no chance of one.

Sorry Gogo, you're just repeating your denial. You want to have sex
with no consequences. Men. One consequence, Contraception is a grave mortal sin. You can't die with unrepentant mortal sins on your soul.

How come you refuse to watch the Youtube I shared about the "pill", it causes an abortion.

People are visual. Here's a Youtube showing life begins at conception.
Science states it, what happened to following Science if you don't follow
the faith?

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by colbe


I think you need to read on how birth control works. There is no abortion, because usually no egg is fertilized. The birth control stops ovulation and therefore stops the egg from growing. So no egg exists to be fertilized. Earlier I was wrong when I said it simply stops implantation. I read more and it actually keeps the egg from meeting a sperm at all. So does this new information change your views on contraception?

What is your opinon now? If there is absolutely no fertilization and therefore no abortion then what is wrong with birth control?

I am curious, what is your position on condoms? Is that somehow a bad thing? Those allow sex without "conception."

Here is the source: source

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by Daughter2

 

Santorum doesn't need this guys help to look bad. Santorum himself said he would have his daughter give birth to a baby even if it was conceived during a rape. This wasn't a back page statement either, there is video of it from an interview.

I agree with everything you said though. It was an ignorant thing for that old man to say. Birth control can be prescribed for acne as well, for chaotic and painful menstruation, and I think in some cases depression (or maybe it causes it in some cases, I'm a dude so I don't remember). These religious people are crazy though, whoever included sex in the bible is a jerk. It's natural and it's good for us and one of the few great pleasures in life. Women shouldn't be expected to avoid it because they might get pregnant that's retarded.
Isn't it scary that a potential world leader could be so uptight about sex, one of the most natural things in the world. Why are republicans so fixated on it?

edit on 17-2-2012 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-2-2012 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)

It takes two, you are just as responsible Gogo. You're not "getting off",
the sin of Contraception is just as much yours.

And obvious fact, a baby from rape or incest is still a baby.

Santorum sees the fruit of contraception, he accepts God's ways and is talking about other things like jobs. Scary is a President with
no morals and who doesn't follow God, the present man in office and his wonderful example from the past, Bill Clinton, though BHO's
actions, he is so much worse. Obama is the scariest, look the fruit
of his Presidency.

Liberal Chris Matthews is out there telling all women not to vote for
Santorum, perpetuating the lie that Santorum is like Obama, he isn't.

Obama is the one taking freedom away, telling people they must act
against their faith and beliefs! Pay for insurance that covers the killing
of the most innocent, a baby in it's mother's womb.

Sex is for marriage and children, can't separate the two. This is God's
plan. Gogo, you have change. You will understand completely, during
your personal Great Warning experience.

reply to post by colbe


You ignored the info I gave. There is no abortion with the pill.
If you think women that are raped should just deal with it and not have the choice to have an abortion then you are as wacked out as Santorum. Religion is the opiate of the masses and has ravaged your common sense. If there is a God he wouldn't punish people for things like contraception and he wouldn't punish a woman that didn't want a child forced on her by rape to have a constant reminder of that for life. If there is a God don't look for it to get in touch with you through some agenda riddled book brought to you by man. If there is a God and he created us all equal than he didn't speak to a few people anymore than he speaks to you and he didn't give them some divine advice to disseminate down through the ages. That sounds more like the action of corrupt man that something divine. Ever consider that?

PS I don't know why you brought up Obama, I am a Republican (at least this year).

Colbe: Question for you....

How would you feel if your employer held the belief that no one should have more than one child. Therefore, they refused to cover all expenses related to child birth and required all employees to be on the pill.

Would you like your employer to be able to make that rule? If you allow employers not to cover birth control then they could also choose not to cover prenatal care too.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by colbe

 

You ignored the info I gave. There is no abortion with the pill.
If you think women that are raped should just deal with it and not have the choice to have an abortion then you are as wacked out as Santorum. Religion is the opiate of the masses and has ravaged your common sense. If there is a God he wouldn't punish people for things like contraception and he wouldn't punish a woman that didn't want a child forced on her by rape to have a constant reminder of that for life. If there is a God don't look for it to get in touch with you through some agenda riddled book brought to you by man. If there is a God and he created us all equal than he didn't speak to a few people anymore than he speaks to you and he didn't give them some divine advice to disseminate down through the ages. That sounds more like the action of corrupt man that something divine. Ever consider that?

PS I don't know why you brought up Obama, I am a Republican (at least this year).

edit on 17-2-2012 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)

Post the link to prove life begins at implantation.

"Wacked up" doesn't sound like a gentleman. Shows your great respect for life and women. If your mother felt as you do, you wouldn't be
here.

God has revealed contraception is a grave sin, show me where He says
it isn't a grave sin.

reply to post by colbe


Where did God say that if you made it where you couldn't become pregnant (again there is absolutely no fertilization in birth control and therfore no abortion). Also my mom waited until she was 30 before I was born and was married for like 6 years before she decided to have me, so no, i think your wrong she likely used some form of contraception and that didn't change the fact that she had me. Also it probably provided me with a much better life.

I bet you a hundred dollars you can't show me where God said it is a grave sin to use contraception. I know for a hundred percent fact you can't show me that.

Originally posted by Daughter2
Colbe: Question for you....

How would you feel if your employer held the belief that no one should have more than one child. Therefore, they refused to cover all expenses related to child birth and required all employees to be on the pill.

Would you like your employer to be able to make that rule? If you allow employers not to cover birth control then they could also choose not to cover prenatal care too.

Daughter2, like your avatar....

Your question is what will happen next if BHO is elected, maybe before. Like China's evil ways. Have you read in Russia, Putin is begging people to have children, using money as an incentive.

A demographic winter...this is the fruit of contraception and abortion.

Obama has no right to make insurors offer free or at a cost abortion and contraceptive coverage.

p.s. I am not being "mean" to you Gogo, just trying to get you to see how serious going against God is, His rules are for our good.

reply to post by colbe


And I am trying to get you to see that God has no rules.
It is absurd to think so. I am not even an atheist, but I know better.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by colbe

 

Where did God say that if you made it where you couldn't become pregnant (again there is absolutely no fertilization in birth control and therfore no abortion). Also my mom waited until she was 30 before I was born and was married for like 6 years before she decided to have me, so no, i think your wrong she likely used some form of contraception and that didn't change the fact that she had me. Also it probably provided me with a much better life.

I bet you a hundred dollars you can't show me where God said it is a grave sin to use contraception. I know for a hundred percent fact you can't show me that.

edit on 17-2-2012 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)

You keep avoiding, don't have answer. Give a link, a writing, to show
life begins at implantation. You've said it over and over with nothing
to back it up.

I posted two videos and Scriptural reference. Go read Psalm 51:7.

reply to post by colbe


That is because I moved on from that argument whenever I read that birth control actually prohibits an egg from being fertilized. You argument was that life began at conception which to you is fertilization. So how is contraception abortion if an egg is never fertilized? How is it wrong if an egg is never fertilized?

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by colbe

 

That is because I moved on from that argument whenever I read that birth control actually prohibits an egg from being fertilized. You argument was that life began at conception which to you is fertilization. So how is contraception abortion if an egg is never fertilized? How is it wrong if an egg is never fertilized?

LOL, still waiting for your evidence. Your new question because you can't give proof life begins at implantation instead of at conception as God has revealed and Science has shown.

reply to post by colbe


I don't need to give any more proof because I already gave it. You keep saying life begins at conception. The definition of conception is fertilization and implantation. So essentially I am agreeing with you. Implantation is part of conception. Look it up in a dictionary. I already posted a link to the definition in the Webster merriam dictionary.

Now can you answer my second part.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by colbe

 

Where did God say that if you made it where you couldn't become pregnant (again there is absolutely no fertilization in birth control and therfore no abortion). Also my mom waited until she was 30 before I was born and was married for like 6 years before she decided to have me, so no, i think your wrong she likely used some form of contraception and that didn't change the fact that she had me. Also it probably provided me with a much better life.

I bet you a hundred dollars you can't show me where God said it is a grave sin to use contraception. I know for a hundred percent fact you can't show me that.

edit on 17-2-2012 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)

Children are a blessing, you can put a price on things, they don't matter.
Your mother followed the times. Remember, maybe you are too young, remember large families? You are here but so many are not. God had
a plan for them too.

The Bible mentions at least one form of contraception specifically and condemns it. Coitus interruptus, was used by Onan to avoid fulfilling his duty according to the ancient Jewish law of fathering children for one’s dead brother. "Judah said to Onan, ‘Go in to your brother’s wife, and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.’ But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife he spilled the semen on the ground, lest he should give offspring to his brother. And what he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord, and he slew him also" (Gen. 38:8–10).

The biblical penalty for not giving your brother’s widow children was public humiliation, not death (Deut. 25:7–10). But Onan received death as punishment for his crime. This means his crime was more than simply not fulfilling the duty of a brother-in-law. He lost his life because he violated natural law, as Jewish and Christian commentators have always understood. For this reason, certain forms of contraception have historically been known as "Onanism," after the man who practiced it, just as homosexuality has historically been known as "Sodomy," after the men of Sodom, who practiced that vice (cf. Gen. 19).

Contraception was so far outside the biblical mindset and so obviously wrong that it did not need the frequent condemnations other sins did. Scripture condemns the practice when it mentions it. Once a moral principle has been established in the Bible, every possible application of it need not be mentioned. For example, the general principle that theft is wrong was clearly established in Scripture; but there’s no need to provide an exhaustive list of every kind of theft.


The biblical teaching that birth control is wrong is found even more explicitly among the Church Fathers, who recognized the biblical and natural law principles underlying the condemnation.

In A.D. 195, Clement of Alexandria wrote, "Because of its divine institution for the propagation of man, the seed is not to be vainly ejaculated, nor is it to be damaged, nor is it to be wasted" (The Instructor of Children 2:10:91:2).


www.catholic.com...

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by colbe

 

I don't need to give any more proof because I already gave it. You keep saying life begins at conception. The definition of conception is fertilization and implantation. So essentially I am agreeing with you. Implantation is part of conception. Look it up in a dictionary. I already posted a link to the definition in the Webster merriam dictionary.

Now can you answer my second part.

....what's the ditty, liar, liar, pants on fire.

You gave no proof. Refer me to your post and the writing. Changing
your story now cause you can't provide anywhere, that life begins
at implantation.

Men and woman are in it for the selfish act. Get rid of the consequence.
A baby!!!

reply to post by colbe


You still avoided my second thing. Also.. you have to realize that man added a lot of that stuff to the bible. It is not gods word. They added that stuff because they wanted to create more people to follow their religion (likely so they would have more soldiers for their holy wars). It is absurd. Making sure you have babies with your brothers widow.. lol. You don't see how they used religion to control people even in that absurd example?