Irked about a meeting I had today.

So, my niece wanted me to go to her principal meeting to solve whatever dispute is going on in the classroom. I could tell the principal totally did not read what I wrote to him, (2 pages long) because he just then and there printed it out, and commented (that I should work for a lawyer, and that I love to write), I mean it was lengthy and he probably read it after I left. But, he should have at least read it before the meeting to know what to discuss. He knew nothing as to what to discuss. I even asked him to place her in counseling, no can't do that, 1 day out the week. Seriously, is it really going to kill the school to get a counselor for these children?

Well, if he read the dang letter that I wrote to him, I think his tone would be taken down a bit with the subject (My niece). No, no, that didn't happen. He goes, some days you do your work then says stop tearing up paper. I'm watching you on my camera. She has a mental disability, if tearing up paper keeps her happy then let her. She tears up paper here playing arts and crafts. What do I do, I throw it away when she's done. Problem solved. She’s happy, everybody's happy.

I'm just irked about going to the meeting and him not bothering to read my paper beforehand. What I stated in the letter, was my nieces thought process of how she works and how it can turn abusive, what we deal with on daily basis, of after she comes home from school, and that it was imperative not to get her riled up. Because it can take a good 8 hours just to bring her down from that state of mind frame.

Yeah, just berate her even more, so we get to deal with the aftermath. This kid totally hates school and refuses to go. I can see why after seeing her teacher and the lack of expression that I got from her principal.

Just; another hell day for me, Yuh, what else is new?

reply to post by Manhater

Schools used to care about individual kids. Teachers discussed individual students among themselves and with the administration to try and resolve problems. They talked to the parents; they talked to the kids; if necessary they talked to school psychologists (do those still exist--I mean real, honest-to-god, down-to-earth school psychologists?).

Now it's conformity or else. Kids don't like conformity; I don't like conformity; nobody in their right effing mind actually LIKES conformity! This is all part of a much grander scheme of things, and you can be sure that it's not designed for the good of the kids or the parents. One might gather that it's meant to be for the smooth operation of "society." One might gather that its true purpose is to drill conformity and ease-of-management into the kids now, in order that they be easier to manage as adults. After all: We can't have all these adults running around questioning authority and complaining about their corporate masters, now can we?

Well she goes to a juvenile problem high school. They act like Marine drill instructors. I mean I can understand that, for some cases, but to act like that to her, it just stirs everything up for us.

And seriously, when I was in school they had counselors to go to. When I bought up for her to see a counselor, he looked away, and looked like he rolled his eyes. So, it looks like he only has a psychologist on site but not a counselor on site.

reply to post by Manhater


Most of these people we put in charge of our kids don't care about the kids education. Truth is people become teachers because it has job security and they get summers off, add in a masters degree and you have your self almost a 6 figure job my aunt makes 90,000 a year teaching 2nd graders how to finger paint.It isn't an easy job but hell what job is easy?

Lol i had a classmate in college threaten me so I talked to a counselor and she didn't do a damn thing for 3 weeks. I then talked to the dean and he told me that "asking someone to go outside" while displaying aggressive behavior didn't constitute or warrant any action on the schools behalf. I told him that if something happened i would have his job because he had been told about the situation and did nothing. Basically they told me I was on my own to deal with the situation but if I protected my self from this person I would be thrown out of school because the school has a 0 tolerance policy to violence "lol yeah right".

Nobody cares about anything except a paycheck and their own asses. The most stupid people are put in charge of almost every type of operation and they do not take any credit if something goes wrong yet except the rewards of the people who did the right thing. I personally made sure the situation with this guy didn't happen by ignoring his advances to fight me, I talked with the counselor and was told "I did the right thing" but the guy still had the right to harass me and they" dean and counselor" had the right to ignore what I said to them. Don't expect anyone in charge to lift a finger to help anyone in the American educational system. Even if your paying large sums of money to them for your eduction.

Hi,
Lots of children hate school. I am sort of confused, what problems are they having in the classroom with her? Just ripping up paper? If she is supposed to be doing work, and ripping up her assignments I can see where that would be an issue. If it’s just in art class I suppose it’s not that big of a deal, but if they are trying to teach her something and she ignores it or acts like she refuses to learn, it’s something to be addressed. I am not talking about conforming as another person spoke about schools. I am talking about learning new things and lessons, not acting exactly like everyone else and being a mindless drone. Also how is she turning abusive? Hitting or throwing things when she is angry? or does it happen when she doesn’t get her way? Is that happening in class or just at home?

Yes I do agree the principal should have read the letter you sent to him. If you have a meeting with someone about a child, it seems to me like it would be part of his job to know a little back story and again if they are having issues maybe your letter could explain some things in that case. The comments he said do seem sort of rude and I don't understand the lawer comment.

As for your niece, if you don’t mind me asking, what type of mental illness does she have? My sister is mentally ill and she also has severe anxiety. If you just look at her funny she would break down crying and dry heaving, even if you weren’t even looking at her in a ‘bad’ way.

Now this might come off wrong at first and not saying this of your niece, but my sister often would scape goat the homeschooling my mother would do by throwing tantrums and crying how she couldn’t do something or didn’t know or hated it, within a minute of being given an assignment and this would go on for hours. She would throw the books, rip the paper, ink out the words in the books or notebooks and scream, cry, need to go to the bathroom then lock herself in there and not come out and a couple times held her breath till she almost passed out, the list goes on... She would do stuff until my mother finally caved and just gave her all the answers or let her go watch TV or play.

They removed her from first grade because the teacher wanted to hold her back because of her ‘issues.’ So they "tried" to home school her. At one point my dad finally found out that my mother was either not doing work with her or doing it for her to make it look like she had done something, so they were going to put her into a special school. The amount of problems that came with that were so bad that they never did and pretty much just stoped teaching her altogether. Now she is 19 years old, can hardly read or write, never graduated school and pretty much stopped at the 4th grade level. While I understand she does have issues, she also was a normal child in a sense that she did not want to do things simply because she would rather be doing other things and she would throw tantrums, throw fits and acted out till she got her way and my parents went along with it because she was “mentally ill.”

Again I don’t know the whole story with your niece, and I am not saying that is what your niece is doing, but you also have to think, it’s possible that those teachers and staff could believe what I just said about my sister; That she is trying to do these things on purpose to get out of doing work, hence the ‘problems’. It is possible that they came across students that did do that, so they could think it about your niece. Even if its untrue. If you could address the issues with her teachers, it more then likely could turn the 'issues' into knowing that is how she is. Again the letter you wrote could have fixed that.

While I do agree that teachers and school staff should be more involved with children, I also think that not everyone will do what she needs; some people just don’t feel it is in their job description. (Yea it is dumb) If the school won’t help with counseling maybe try to find one in your area that could help her with her issues? Besides if she hates school so much it might be good to have someone outside of school to talk to and work with.

Sorry your having such a bad time with the school, just keep a positive mind and positive reinforcement for your niece and I hope things go better for you all.

Tell me about it. Some people do not deserve their job positions and it's a wonder how they managed to get in the first place.

If you don't like your job then why be there?

His excuse for the teachers action, was that she was having a bad day and it won't happen again. I don't seem convinced after seeing his reaction and that she is safe at the school. Yeah, she's only safe when they throw her in the isolation room. Which I wouldn't be surprised, if they have already done that. I heard from her mom that they did it to her one time. Ignoring her, escalates her even more.

reply to post by Daedallimn22


She's an abusive autistic, with possible disorganized schizophrenic tendencies. She acts out when she doesn't get her way. But, if you compromise with her, she would gladly work on what you want her to work on.

Her teacher has already put this child in a diaper. The kid is 16 years old and knows she is not 2. She likes to mimic everybody and everything around her whether bad or good. On Friday, she kept calling her a troublemaker. And no more Mrs. Nice Teacher. (Yes, I know this child can be aggravating). This is what the child told me. Some things she does make up, but when she repeats it over and over, I know she's not lying, All she says is I don't want to go to school. My teacher is mean. I met her teacher. She is mean. She acts like a Marine Drill Instructor.

If you do not give her, her way and her way only, it will become a full blown mental aggravated state where she will not come back down to reality for a good 8-10 hours. That's without the doctors and officers involved. When they do get involved maybe 8 hours. But the abuse is on us. When she does it at school, she gets thrown into the isolation room.

He made the comment after he printed it out, that I love to write and should work for a lawyer. Even at that time he didn't even read the paper. He glanced at it.

reply to post by Manhater


I tried to respond to this earlier but unfortunately my head is messed up at the moment and concentration eludes me, so second time lucky.

Arrange another meeting, don't send a letter, as has already been demonstrated to you, a letter can be ignored or screwed up and thrown in the bin. Insist that not only the Principal be present, but also the teacher and the school psychologist. And also ensure that you and her mother attend, and if you are able, a third party witness (not always possible and I don't know what the system is where you are, but any independent or charitable body, such as the Autism trust, should have advocates for this kind of situation).

Then ask them to provide you with details of their strategy for providing for the child's education. Put the emphasis on their failure to educate the child, and their responsibility to do so, no matter what problems she has. This is, as you have pointed out, a school for 'problem children', if they don't have strategic methods, then it is about time that someone pointed out that they should. AND demand that they provide you with regular written progress reports of how that strategy is working. They are a SCHOOL, not a care centre, remind them of this.

Refer to the UN directives of the rights of ALL children to a 'basic education'. Point out where they are failing to meet those basic requirements. BUT most importantly of all, make yourself, and more importantly, make sure her mother, is a right royal pain in their arse. Don't allow them to dismiss you. They are failing this girl, and from what you have explained, they are making your work as carers, all the more difficult. Insist that they work with you to make this a beneficial learning and socialisation experience for her, and make sure that they know that you are not going to remove yourself from their office until they fulfil their obligation to do so.

Another idea, may be to contact your local university or college and see if there are any student psychologists who may be willing to work with your niece in the classroom, as a project, or for work experience, extra credit, whatever, or offer to provide that service yourself if you are able to. Ideally the school should have extra classroom assistants to deal with particular special needs, but if not, show the school that you are willing to make up for that lack of provision and meet them half way. It pays to show them that you are aware of where they are falling short in the education that they are claiming to provide, and that you will not simply be put off by the arguement that they lack the funds etc, show that you are willing to meet the shortfall, and that you are not simply using the school as day care. Teachers can get jaded too, and not all families are as conscientious as you obviously are, so showing your willingness to understand and compromise with their position, can sometime bear fruit on it's own.

Best of luck.

reply to post by Manhater


This could be a "real" issue.
My wife is a Special Ed teacher and she is constantly telling me of the brick walls that are run into when the needs of the students are not in line with state, fed, Etc. regulations.
If the child has a mental disability, start digging as you can truly become a thorn in the principals side.
"It's for the kids, what can ya do?"

reply to post by pcrobotwolf


There are some teachers that do care about their students, I know quite a few.
Teachers pay is not always stellar as most think, and those summer vacations come pay free as well.
But as soon as school gets back in we get the bill for the summers medical benefits.

As for your dean that stated,
"asking someone to go outside while displaying aggressive behavior didn't constitute or warrant any action on the schools behalf."
Did you immediately ask him to step outside in an aggressive tone?
I would have considering it is no biggie.
Gives em some perspective.

reply to post by Manhater

If she has a documented disability, and you live in the US, you need a meeting with her IEP team (Individual Educational Plan) and not the clueless principal. If you specifically asked for counseling for her and they said no, document that. Look up Public Law 94-142 (The Rights of Handicapped Children) and get in touch with someone in an advocacy role who will attend an IEP meeting with you, or at least advise you.

Here's a listing of agencies by state: www.ldonline.org...

Good luck. I used to be a school counselor. That principal lacks empathy, professionalism, and knowledge of school law, IMHO.

PS: Request a copy of her current IEP. You will get a better idea of what you can ask for when the team meets.

Oh, thank you. I will look that up when I get home. Thank you for the responses but I won't be able to fully read this thread until late today. I have to get ready for school.

I forgot, She also has Bi-Polar, which makes her light switch. So she can be happy one moment, think about something that happened during that day, then go into her full metal jacket mental state.

Also when she hears them raising their tone to an abusive tone, then she thinks that is okay to raise her to tone to us. Her excuse, the teacher does it, I'm allowed to talk like this.. Yuh, no you your not. Tone it down. She'll raise her tone, and scream like the world is ending when she don't get her way.

If she is in a calm environment, and has enjoyable time at school, I believe her actions will start to diminish and she will looks at thing and have fun for change. Rather then fighting with everyone.

What also didn't help with the meeting is her mother talking forever about unnecessary things. She likes to explain everything in detail, which clearly lost the interest of the principal.

reply to post by Biliverdin


This problem with the niece goes way, way beyond the school being able to accomodate her needs. They see it as your problem, not their problem to fix. As difficult as it may be on several levels, your family needs to consider other alternatives. Your family must start thinking in a new direction as difficult as those areas will be. A proper diagnosis would be the first step. Then check into any possible alternative school or school system and perhaps even moving to bring that to pass. Any possibilities of home schooling or tutoring? Lastly would be meds.

Having had a child decades ago fail first grade because of ADHD and the inability of the school system to handle that problem--I blame them not--he was tested by the University of Illinois and found to be moderately ADHD. Thanks to Ritalin, he successfully finished grade school. Being ADD myself, I understand that there is not always a acceptable solution coming from society--if a solution is there at all. Some of us are not up to the generic standards that society has constructed as the limits of its obligations.

We either learn or are taught to operate in a acceptable manner for society's sake or we fall by the wayside to one degree or another. So, then, the final burden falls to the family and especially upon that individual.

reply to post by new_here


We have a similar system in the UK, which is what I was trying to explain...though poorly...and I had tried to look up the equivalent in the USA via Google but wasn't sure how to phrase it to get the right information out, so I got nada.

OP, this is great advice, so ignore my post and just do as new_here advises, as it seems spot on to your circumstances and I wouldn't want to confuse the issue.

reply to post by g146541


actually i did lol, I showed him how it was done as well. I'm 29 and not that big of a guy so i bet it didn't seem that scary. Funny thing is i can scrap if i need too and have taken down bigger guys then me in fights but this situation made me seem like a pussy for doing the right thing. I cant tell you how mad that made me and the guy pretended to act as if i just had a problem so the dean didn't believe me

Originally posted by new_here
reply to post by Manhater

 

If she has a documented disability, and you live in the US, you need a meeting with her IEP team (Individual Educational Plan) and not the clueless principal. If you specifically asked for counseling for her and they said no, document that. Look up Public Law 94-142 (The Rights of Handicapped Children) and get in touch with someone in an advocacy role who will attend an IEP meeting with you, or at least advise you.

Here's a listing of agencies by state: www.ldonline.org...

Good luck. I used to be a school counselor. That principal lacks empathy, professionalism, and knowledge of school law, IMHO.

PS: Request a copy of her current IEP. You will get a better idea of what you can ask for when the team meets.

edit on 2/17/2012 by new_here because: (no reason given)

I just got the number for the Advocate to help with her with school, and the lady I spoke with today was extremely helpful nice. She's even going to meet with the two of them to get idea of how mother and daughter are. Making my sister go. No if's, no and's, no butt's, no headache's, no I don't feel well, no nothing. Your going.

I also have her setup to call these new doctors to give her a new diagnosis and to also get her into a new counseling session, also a they have learning center at the building. The lady really nice, and could tell, I wass just dragged worn down. She set me up good. So, hopefully my dang sister will get her butt on the ball. Even though, I will have to kick it for her.

Why do I have to be mom to a child and an adult? lol

Originally posted by Manhater

I just got the number for the Advocate to help with her with school, and the lady I spoke with today was extremely helpful nice. She's even going to meet with the two of them to get idea of how mother and daughter are. Making my sister go. No if's, no and's, no butt's, no headache's, no I don't feel well, no nothing. Your going.

I also have her setup to call these new doctors to give her a new diagnosis and to also get her into a new counseling session, also a they have learning center at the building. The lady really nice, and could tell, I wass just dragged worn down. She set me up good. So, hopefully my dang sister will get her butt on the ball. Even though, I will have to kick it for her.

Why do I have to be mom to a child and an adult? lol

edit on 17-2-2012 by Manhater because: (no reason given)

Wow, you jumped right on it. Just knowing you have this Advocacy group on your team must be a big relief. These people know the law, and they fight for the child's rights. Most schools know if they don't dot their i's and cross their t's with special education laws, they risk learning to the hard way. The IEP is a legally binding document, so whatever is written into it must be carried out. Get copies of everything when that meeting takes place. Our state also has something called a BIP (Behavioral Intervention Plan) which can be requested by a teacher, administrator, or even a parent. It is not as 'legally binding' but it does lay out a plan for "When this happens, we do this..." for certain chronic situations so that everyone knows how things should be handled. (It also makes for a great brainstorming session between the school and home, figuring out 'what works' in terms of rewards and punishments. Both parties often get ideas from each other.) Worth asking your Advocate if this is available in your state.