Parenting 101: how to instill respect for others.

daughter posts rude comments on face book, dad pulls out 45. and shoots her laptop.

but hear me out. i am thinking outside the box here.

My theory is that this is a conspiracy against the occupy protesters which the mainstream media likes to give the illusion of being mostly made up of rebellious youth and punks.

typical druggy punks that don't go to school and talk back to their parents. sounds familiar.


there are many reasons why "They" would want to create a video like this.

simply put, it will pull the rug out from under rebellious citizens, because EVERYONE is directing their attention to this video.

i dare you to go to the video and hit the auto update button, watch the comments FLY. over 14 MILLION VIEWS ALREADY.

it was posted 3 days ago.

everyone and i mean over 99% of everyone is siding with the father. his methods are extreme, but thats not what i made this comment for.

this comment is about uncovering what i believe to be the greatest *points behind you* to the US citizens, "look there's godzilla" in *********************** history.


kids always have a bad rap with society, always questioning things and asking too many questions, don't kids say the darndest things?

i want you all to now form your own opinions and discuss what you think about this conspiracy theory.

be aware.


this thread is not to discuss the right or wrong about what happened with the father and daughter, its about the truth.

don't hate me and instantly disagree.

i want you to really think about it for just a moment. think about the implications that this may carry.

I love this video.

I think every generation has its issues. My husband says the biggest problem today is elimination of the Front Porch.

I say it is the isolationism of the single family unit. It used to be generations of families lived together - - not only could you not get away with anything 'cuz someone was always in your business - - but you had to learn to share - - to accept/learn everyone's individual quirks - - and really work at making a cohesive family unit.

Parenting today really does require a 24 hands on approach - - because of access to everything.

The pre-teen in our family does have a laptop. But it sits on a table in the living room facing out. If she even dared to do a parental block - - it would be gone for anything other then school work. And she knows her mom can monitor it from her phone. We don't play games.

reply to post by SoymilkAlaska


Disappointment is there, but the weight does not transfer over as much.

Each of my children are different, thus requiring differing techniques of handling misdirection on their part.

For my autistic son, the merest expression of disappointment carries a MUCH greater weight than any sort of physical punishment ever could. Part of this is due to the enormous emphasis he places on pleasing us (and his teachers) and so my wife and I keep this in mind. For him, the carrot (approval of his actions) is ever so much more effective than the stick (negative reinforcement) could be.

Our oldest daughter (the 15 year old) is a different matter entirely. She is very strong-willed and our disappointment in her does very little. She requires a more direct and visible demonstration of consequences.

As they have gotten older, they have required fewer and less intense corrective measures as they have learned in the past that certain types of actions will meet with specific consequences. They now know (the older two) that no matter how draconian our policies may have seemed at the time, we really do have their best interests at heart.

reply to post by SoymilkAlaska


Start your own thread with that insanity...don't keep attempting to derail this one because you don't have people agreeing with you. jmoho...

reply to post by Destinyone


Actually you are a dude whether you agree with the definitions or not, and anyone is free to call you one and not incur in any form of disrespect as you implied in the post I was replying to.

Originally posted by SoymilkAlaska
reply to post by sonnny1

 

don't spank them too hard/often they might just learn to enjoy it one day

Never heard my kids say that............



BTW,I never have had to put a hand to butt on my oldest. She listens well,and the fear of consequences,has a lasting effect. ALL children will push boundaries,set by parents. Some dont have parents that will set ANY boundaries. Respect is earned. The lack of morals,convictions is commonplace nowadays. The man putting bullets to the laptop he bought,for his child is a learning lesson. Just like a parent breaking a child's toy in half,when two children are fighting over it. You could possibly sit down,and explain it to children,but they will fight over the toy again. Or you can make a lasting example of the toy. Parenting is hard. Not every parent will make the right decision. I think this man was justified,at what and why he did it. She was warned. Now she can pay for a new one,when she gets a real job. She has learned a valuable lesson. If she doesn't like the lesson,she will probably have to relearn it again. Children are constantly learning form their mistakes,and doomed to repeat them.

Originally posted by Destinyone
reply to post by SoymilkAlaska

 

Start your own thread with that insanity...don't keep attempting to derail this one because you don't have people agreeing with you. jmoho...

i think its a valid theory... but its a long story, how it ended up here... well...

*sigh*


if im right, its working isn't it?

Originally posted by TheRedneck

I'm saying once they learn respect (don't remember mentioning for authority only), they will not consider others their servants, they will learn to do what they can with what they have instead of demanding that others do for them, they will learn that they are not the center of the Universe, and they might just learn that there are consequences for actions.

Yes - - this is what we are working on right now - - actually have been for quite some time.

She is 11. She gets grounded more for going along with "friends" - - and not standing up for herself - - - then anything else.

We don't tell her what to think - - but we do insist she does have independent thought. This is only on a pre-teen social level right now - - but hopefully will become ingrained enough to reach all aspects of her life.

She is showing signs of getting it - - finally

As a father of two daughters I wasn't sure how to take this man.

I think he over reacted a bit, seeing he could have given away the laptop rather than proving his has 'big balls' by shooting the damn thing. He is saying 'if I get disrespected I shoot things', which is kind of childish in and of itself.

The problem with social media and especially with teenagers on social media, is that they use it as a diary. They express their feelings, thoughts and emotions where everyone can read them rather than in a book that you hide underneath your matress.

If this father had read his daughters diary would he have shot it? Would he have been as mad if it was in her diary, or would the daughter have the right to be mad? The daughter went out of her way to post it on Facebook so the father couldn't read it, was it not a bit of invasion to go out of his way to find and read it?

All children through their teens rebel, not just in the human species, but most mammalian species, to think we are going to make them not rebel by shooting their things is just plain dumb.

If your daughter is disrespectful, that means you have not taught her how to be respectful, do not punish her for things you haven't taught her yet. When she rebels, which most children do, you have to act the way you want her to be, no shooting property or embarrassing her by posting videos on her Facebook wall, as you were mad in the first place about something she posted on her Facebook wall. You taught her to be like this, because what she did is something you would do.

Now I am not claiming to be a super parent, but I try and instill values in my children, I know they will rebel just as I did when I was a teenager, the only problem is I will embrace it. When a child rebels they are trying to figure out who they are and when they tell me they hate me or post something on their Facebook wall I will not be offended and ask them what they want as a solution.

People spend to much time bickering about who is right rather than finding a solution, be a parent and someone she can look up to and find a solution and in no way is shooting your daughters laptop because you had your feelings hurt from a wall post teaching your child good values...

Pred...

reply to post by TheRedneck


Honestly, I think the father is on the foolish side. He destroyed a $1000 (guessing) piece of electronic equipment when he could have made the same statement to his daughter by donating the laptop to a needy family or friend, a school or local charity. Naturally, it wouldn't have earned him as much attention on FB or Youtube, but at least SOMEONE would have gotten some use out of it. It's a wasteful shame, especially in this economy. By using a gun, he made it a vulgar display of overkill and it seems like this father did this primarily to grandstand, making a spectacle of himself while trying to make an example of his daughter.

I hope when his daughter has left home, for college or work and a life of her own, he takes comfort in his video, the positive comments he received and his 15 seconds of fame, it may be all he has left of his relationship with her.

Originally posted by Destinyone

Originally posted by SoymilkAlaska
reply to post by TheRedneck

 

school is hard for kids, and then they send her home with 5 hours of homework.

she probably couldn't even catch a single break since the day she was born, constantly doing mind numbing busy work from school and fetching him coffee every 2 seconds, its enough to drive someone up the wall and reach escape velocity.


people need to get rid of their mentality of respect and demanding it and these crazy ways of raising children, they create monsters this way.

I forgot to ask.... do you have any children?

I ask, what does that have to do with the situation?

Are you implying that if someone is not a nuclear scientist, then they have "no clue" when they say nuclear power can be destructive?



Or, if I've never been a cat, or had a cat, I have no right to any opinions about cats?

again

Please, when you guys resort to attacking another person by claiming that by not being a parent themselves their opinion is worthless, instead of stating your opinions and why you feel that way you end up sounding like you have no reasonable excuses for your behavior. I understand being unreasonable, many children are, especially those raised by unreasonable parents. Like parent, like child. So if you are having many problems with your children, perhaps you would honor yourselves and them by taking a great big long look in the mirror and questioning how you are a party to "unreasonableness" and disrespect.

Yes, children go through many different stages and try out many different things, yes they will "try out" being disrespectful. The issue then is, are you disrespectful right back to that child thereby teaching them to be disrespectful? Or do you earn their respect by disciplining them in a way which shows respect of them as a human being? Discipline does NOT equal using violence on a child or acting just like the child did. You do not teach them respect by acting just like them when they "piss you off". They are the child, YOU are supposed to be the adult, prove it by acting like a reasonable adult.

Be the role model and act as you want your children to act. If you want violence from your children, show them violence. If you want respect, show them respect. If you want your child to be an idiot, be an idiot and show them how to be an idiot. YOU are their teacher, what are you teaching your child? Please ask yourself that question every single day and especially when you are having conflict with your child. Ask yourself, WHAT am I teaching them and what am I trying to accomplish and what is the healthiest way to accomplish my end goal?

As the adults it is OUR responsibility to act like the adult and role model the types of behaviors we want our children to learn.

Excellent post predator0187.

Harm None
Peace

reply to post by TheRedneck



Wellllllllllllllllllll

THE TIME TO FIX

TEENAGE PROBLEMS

IS

AGES 0-6!

My turn . . .

as a childless PhD in Clinical Psych.

Here's a great article:

teacher.scholastic.com...

"Bonding and Attachment in Maltreated Children: Consequences of Emotional Neglect in Childhood

by Dr Bruce Perry MD, PhD

Introduction

. . .

Each individual's ability to form and maintain relationships using this "emotional glue" is different. Some people seem "naturally" capable of loving. They form numerous intimate and caring relationships and, in doing so, get pleasure. Others are not so lucky. They feel no "pull" to form intimate relationships, find little pleasure in being with or close to others. They have few, if any, friends, and more distant, less emotional glue with family. In extreme cases an individual may have no intact emotional bond to any other person. They are self-absorbed, aloof, or may even present with classic neuropsychiatric signs of being schizoid or autistic.

The capacity and desire to form emotional relationships is related to the organization and functioning of specific parts of the human brain. Just as the brain allows us to see, smell, taste, think, talk, and move, it is the organ that allows us to love — or not. The systems in the human brain that allow us to form and maintain emotional relationships develop during infancy and the first years of life. Experiences during this early vulnerable period of life are critical to shaping the capacity to form intimate and emotionally healthy relationships. Empathy, caring, sharing, inhibition of aggression, capacity to love, and a host of other characteristics of a healthy, happy, and productive person are related to the core attachment capabilities which are formed in infancy and early childhood.

. . .

What is attachment?

Well, it depends. The word "attachment" is used frequently by mental health, child development, and child protection workers but it has slightly different meanings in these different contexts. The first thing to know is that we humans create many kinds of "bonds." A bond is a connection between one person and another. In the field of infant development, attachment refers to a special bond characterized by the unique qualities of maternal-infant or primary caregiver-infant relationships. The attachment bond has several key elements: (1) an attachment bond is an enduring emotional relationship with a specific person; (2) the relationship brings safety, comfort, and pleasure; (3) loss or threat of loss of the person evokes intense distress. This special form of relationship is best characterized by the maternal-child relationship. As we study the nature of these special relationships, we are finding out about how important they can be for the future development of the child. Indeed, many researchers and clinicians feel that the maternal-child attachment provides the working framework for all subsequent relationships that the child will develop. A solid and healthy attachment with a primary caregiver appears to be associated with a high probability of healthy relationships with others, while poor attachment with the mother or primary caregiver appears to be associated with a host of emotional and behavioral problems later in life.

. . .

Online booklet on same topic by same Doc:

childtraumaacademy.org...

A list of his articles at the teacher's site:

www.scholastic.com... Bruce Perry

The Impact of Abuse and Neglect on the Developing Brain:

www.scholastic.com...

Basically . . . all of us with significant degrees of Attachment Disorder are somewhat brain damaged in the areas of the brain involved with emotional attachment and relationships.

That can take a lot of work to overcome and result in mangled relationships one's whole life unless dealt with successfully and overcomingly.

Supporting Maltreated Children: Countering the Effects of Neglect and Abuse

www.nacac.org...

=========================================

It appears highly likely that Dad had serious Attachment problems and passed on the favor to daughter.

CONTINUED NEXT POST
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Originally posted by BO XIAN

THE TIME TO FIX

TEENAGE PROBLEMS

IS

AGES 1-6!

WOW!

Ya see Hell hasn't frozen over.

I knew we'd agree on something - some day.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

The rest of the stuff though - Ehhhhhhhhhhh! Some children have great parents and still do this kind of stuff.

Cracks me up! When Dr. Spock had to actually engage and raise his teenage step daughter - - - he said he was wrong about a lot of stuff.

Parenting is just not something you know - - unless you actually do it.

Books are great - - but they're still just books.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I'm on my 3rd generation now - - and Still Learning.

Originally posted by amazed
Are you implying that if someone is not a nuclear scientist, then they have "no clue" when they say nuclear power can be destructive?

If you think you know about raising children and you haven't actually raised children.

You don't know. You may think you do - - but you don't.

Originally posted by sonnny1
BTW, I never have had to put a hand to butt on my oldest. She listens well, and the fear of consequences, has a lasting effect.

Yep - - every child is different. I say "raise them from the inside out" - - let them show you who they are - then direct them toward their positives and redirect their negatives.

I had 2 daughters that were as opposite as opposite could be. One does not fit all

reply to post by BO XIAN

DISCIPLINE

WITHOUT

***SUFFICIENT***

RELATIONSHIP

virtually always

PRODUCES

REBELLION.

...

PARTICULARLY

overblown,

out of touch, angry

"discipline"

I agree that Mom's can cause significant attachment disorder. However, in my observation and experience, Dad's are far more responsible. Any and any combination of the following tends to cause it:

1. Verbal, emotional, physical and/or sexual abuse
2. Parental addictions--alcoholism, gambling, workaholism, ragaholism, over-eating compulsions, OCD, Bi-Polar
3. Absent Father or mother--usually it's the Dad that's physically absent &/or emotionally absent.
4. Gross hypocrisy--Do as I say, not as I do.
5. Lack of listening, a truly hearing heart.
6. Lack of lavish amounts of healthy physical affection.
7. Cold, distant, harsh demeanor, personality, habits on the part of Dad or mom.

I've read that some experts used to say that only 20% of the population had serious ATTACHMENT DISORDER.

I think their behind the times or their criteria were extreme. I think it's more like 20% do NOT have serious degrees of ATTACHMENT DISORDER.

I've heard all my life from pastors, profs and colleagues that

"Welllll, you just never know. Those parents were perfect. Some kids just twist off even when you do the best you can do."

AT age 65 and with more than 30 years of counseling and teaching . . .
I've !NEVER! seen that to be the case.

Pastors or colleagues would hold out a case that purportedly matched that description and it usually took me 1-3 questions to find out where the ROT was in the parenting habits.

Yes. We all are responsible for our choices and behaviors.

However, TEENS BRAINS ARE NOT EVEN MATURED until around 25-30.

They are NOT EQUIPPED to make mature decisions--particularly without practice and support during the practice!

Throw in an insane society with all manner of destructive messages in the media, movies, schools . . . it's a wonder they don't all rush off the cliff every week.

It will be interesting to see how this situation with this father works out. I expect that the daughter will run away or some other fool thing. I think it's less than 5%--25% likely that she'll learn what he wants her to learn from all this.

It's possible that all the net etc. media hoopla over it will make her a star and they'll work something out because of that. Crazy.

I can well understand his feelings. However, allowing his feelings to control his actions is no better than his daughter's behaviors, choices.

Certainly limits and consequences are in order.

However, the consequences must match the offense . . . and be practical and redemptive and realistic in terms of severity and length of time applied.

The Dad COULD have sat down with daughter and said . . .

Uhhhh evidently I'm not being as effective a Dad as I'd like to be because you're still not getting the message I'm trying to communicate. And, you are still setting yourself up to fail big time in life. We need to work something else out.

These behaviors are intolerable to me if you are going to live in this house.

What do you think are fitting consequences?

etc. etc. etc.


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reply to post by TheRedneck


I don't know how this man's actions will pay off.

However, I have a teacher (Aikido) that is deeply respected by a lot of people.

And he doesn't obtain his respect by destroying peoples things or proving how capable and strong he is.

Anybody that's truly worth respect will never have to ask for it.

reply to post by amazed

Are you implying that if someone is not a nuclear scientist, then they have "no clue" when they say nuclear power can be destructive?

I'm not implying it... I'm stating it!

Do you really believe someone who has no clue how nuclear power operates is as capable of making an informed opinion as someone who does?

The simple truth is that in any field, those with the greatest amount of knowledge and experience (which is practical knowledge) are those who have the most informed opinions on any subject. This is especially true in parenting. Society has, in the last few decades, been besieged with individuals who are eagerly stating their opinions on how to raise a child... usually people who have never actually raised a child! The result is we now have shootings and stabbings in school along with unprecedented teen pregnancy rates, whereas when I went there the really 'evil' kids smoked in the bathroom, talked back to teachers, and looked up girls' dresses. Where America used to be a shining beacon of education, we are now a laughing stock to the rest of the world.

Something didn't work, and no one need be a rocket scientist to figure that much out.

Now, if I am cold and want to be warm, and I have this fire going, my goal is to increase the heat. If I put water on the fire and it starts to die down, making me colder, does that mean I should put more water on it? NO! It means I am doing the wrong thing, and I had better stop it or I won't have any heat at all! The obvious response to a failure is to examine the results honestly and change the tactics accordingly, not to just keep doing what you're doing harder.

But somehow we as a society have decided that failure should equal implementation. If we do something and kids react negatively, that means we should do that something even more, because "it simply has to work". I am here to tell you, it doesn't work that way. It never has and never will, regardless of how much you want it to.

A large part of maturity is learning to accept when your beliefs may be incorrect.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by Annee
WOW!

Ya see Hell hasn't frozen over.

I knew we'd agree on something - some day.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

INDEED. LOL.

The rest of the stuff though - Ehhhhhhhhhhh! Some children have great parents and still do this kind of stuff.

Depends on what one means by GREAT PARENTS.

Please see my comments above.

Parents can be great in a LOT of respects and still miss it in one or more critical areas . . . sometimes even just with one kid.

The emotional bonding is super critical.

So is tailoring one's parenting and relationship to each kid while still being generally fair.

Each kid requires some things a bit differently.

Genetically Very sensitive etc. kids require a lot of love and affection, support, encouragement, hand holding and affirmation until they can be taught, led, trained to be more robust.

Cracks me up! When Dr. Spock had to actually engage and raise his teenage step daughter - - - he said he was wrong about a lot of stuff.

I thought he was an idiot to begin with.

Parenting is just not something you know - - unless you actually do it.

Depends . . . yes and no.

My parents adopted a baby girl when I was 10. And mother insisted I have a huge part in her child-care so I'd be a good father and hubby. That included 2:00 AM feedings and lots of diapers etc.

I think more, it depends on the degree of EMPATHY--the capacity to put one's self in another's skin.

And, to some degree . . . in my case . . . how observant; how good the training; etc.

Evidently I'm not all that bad about understanding parenting dynamics, issues, factors. out of 3,000-4,000 students and many hundreds of families in counseling . . .

WHEN they did what I suggested, I'd say it worked or mostly worked more than 95% of the time . . . possibly 97% of the time. Now that doesn't count the cases where it was obvious before I said anything that things were so bad and had gone so long--there was NOT GOING TO BE ANY MAGIC WAND OF ANY SORT.

But where there was much of a chance at all--even less than 50% . . . my impact was usually well above average, by God's Grace.

I once talked to a wise old missionary lady in Taiwan who'd had 13 kids. I asked her if she thought the input from those who didn't have kids was usually off base or unhelpful. She instantly said "OH NO! Many of their insights were very helpful. They had a perspective I didn't have." And she was a great mom to begin with.

Look at it this way . . . in my case, I spent a lot of time I'd have spent with my own kids studying research studies and other types of studies about what other parents did right and what they did wrong. That was usually a benefit to my clients and students.

Books are great - - but they're still just books.

That reminds me.

The best book I know on ATTACHMENT DISORDER IS:

ATTACHMENTS: WHY YOU LOVE, FEEL AND ACT THE WAY YOU DO: UNLOCK THE SECRET TO LOVING AND LASTING RELATIONSHIPS

It has a section in the back of 10 things adults with ATTACHMENT DISORDER can do to overcome the dreadful consequences of such.

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1329000214&sr=1-1

--------------------------------------------------------------

I'm on my 3rd generation now - - and Still Learning.

Aren't we all. This is boot camp.
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reply to post by predator0187

All children through their teens rebel, not just in the human species, but most mammalian species, to think we are going to make them not rebel by shooting their things is just plain dumb.

If your daughter is disrespectful, that means you have not taught her how to be respectful, do not punish her for things you haven't taught her yet. When she rebels, which most children do, you have to act the way you want her to be, no shooting property or embarrassing her by posting videos on her Facebook wall, as you were mad in the first place about something she posted on her Facebook wall. You taught her to be like this, because what she did is something you would do.

I've heard that all my life . . . all teens rebel.

I've seen a few who did not.

Certainly all healthy teens INDIVIDUATE. That's different.

I've seen a few families with such excellent parenting . . . particularly fathering . . . that the sons nor daughters rebelled at all. They remained in emotionally bonded contact with their parents . . . all their lives. Certainly there were times as teens when they began to do things differently than their parents.

Their parents ENCOURAGED that. Their parents delighted in their teens coming into their own.

There was no gritchy rebellion. Just didn't happen.

There was no need for it.

I think this is very very emphatically true:

If your daughter is disrespectful, that means you have not taught her how to be respectful, do not punish her for things you haven't taught her yet.