Terminal Procedure Charts for KINS Creech AFB?

Does anyone know where I can download Terminal Charts for Creech AFB?

They have one for Tonopah Test range on Flightaware, but not for Creech AFB.

Thanks in advance.

Have you tried calling them and asking them where you could find it?

Originally posted by darpa999
Does anyone know where I can download Terminal Charts for Creech AFB?

They have one for Tonopah Test range on Flightaware, but not for Creech AFB.

Thanks in advance.

The bigger question is: why would you need those?

Well, the same question lies on why people here take pictures of Area 51 and so on...
I just want to collect the charts, thats all.

I belive Flightaware has TTR"s termainal charts there. Nothing classified about it.
Same goes for Dugway, its there. Just look for it.

Only recently did KTNX have published terminal procedures.

I really don't see the need to keep these things secret, but everyone is covering their arse. If someone intended on doing something evil at KINS, they could just watch the airport from across the highway and learn the flight patterns. It is very visible. If you drive up the road past the prison, you can see them fly UAVs in the canyons just beyond the base.

Generally all I want out of the terminal procedures are the frequencies. Airnav has whatever they feed to the FAA.
www.airnav.com...

If you want to go one step further, you can sign up to use some FAA databases such as FADDS. If you recall the post I did with the coordinates for various "secret" fixes, I just looked them up in the database rather than just publish some WAGs (wild ass guesses).

Back to airnav, I suspect they still access to the FLIP. I can neither confirm no deny somebody uploaded the FLIP AP1B to one of those file sharing sites. Basically with electronic documentation, if you don't publish it, it just goes underground. It is just too easy to declare something FOUO.

The document you really want is called the FLIMSY. That is the 57th wing in flight guide, or something to that effect. Check out
www.fws.gov... 2_20091030_NVoperations.pdf

To download the FLIP AP1B Flight Planning, you need a DoD CAC for access.
I guess these publications were moved to their classified servers.
www.baseops.net...

reply to post by darpa999


I have the current FLIP AP/1B. There is no classified stamp on it. It has "copyright 2011 by the United States Government ... No copyright claimed under Title 17 U.S.C." Not even a FOUO marking.

You can probably FOIA one. Ask for NSN7641014109670. Or just search for it on the internet.

Here is a link for a 2008 version.
www.cnatra.navy.mil...

The FLIP shows up on military websites often, Lately links to upload sites get passed around.

Gariac - thanks as always.

The FLIP seems to be too too comlex to understand. Alot of reading to do.
I always been into aviation stuff, and even the literature is too hard to understand.

Thanks.

reply to post by darpa999


I think the flip is the only place to get refueling tracks and frequencies. But there are more refueling tracks than are listed in the FLIP, so the whole thing is kind of screwed. You can go to the R2508 page to get some of the Edwards tracks. Around the Nellis range, it seems anything goes. One Nellis range track goes from the Cedar Ranch to some point close to Bald Mountain. Another track runs from a bit west of the TTR to some point at the east end of the range (obviously a small track). The Blue Bird (Groom Lake refueling) takes place who knows where.

General Aviation needs to know the military training routes, which mostly aren't over restricted airspace, just so they can use caution in the area. There really is a need for civilians to have access to data in some of the FLIP, so the ban makes little sense, plus as I indicated, it is violated blatantly, even by DoD organizations.

I was told Edwards used to get so many FOIAs for R2508 information that they decided to just put it all out there. Reality, who knows. But it is the best example I've seen of how to do things right.
www.edwards.af.mil...

I already have the R2508 Complex Users Handbook in PDF format.
Now I think they have the 2012 version. I have the 2010 version.

The FLIP is kind of boring. I have to admit. But I will save it anyways.

reply to post by darpa999


The FLIP has some hidden stuff. For instance, it is useful to check the "obstructions" on Google Earth. They can be comm towers, ACMI sites, etc. There are also "in the blind" frequencies listed. "In the blind" means you signal without establishing two way communications. It is somewhat like a common traffic advisory frequency used by civil aviation.

If you study the military training routes, you can get the hand off procedures between ranges. Remember, there are few published military air frequencies. When you find a list on the internet, the frequencies have been found by harvesting what public documents exist, plus on-scene monitoring. (When on-scene, you get frequencies from bandscanning and from frequencies given out over the air.)

As I mentioned in the thread with the latest Nellis range monitoring, you need to know the baseline, bog standard, run of the mill comms so that you can tell when something noteworthy is happening.

Case in point are weapons launches. When you hear a pilot say he is going to release a missile, you don't have to report to light in the sky as a UFO. If you hear the pilot say he is going to land on 14, you don't have to pull a Lazar and claim that the light over the base is a flying saucer.

Fortunately, the USAF pdfs are searchable. Otherwise, exploitation would be difficult.