1% taxes VS the bottom 20% taxes WOW

Originally posted by NuminousCosmos
I live in Washington state...which is at the top of this list. I got $8.00 back from Uncle Sam. I make less than $30,000 a year in taxable income. My next door neighbor owns a chain of health/fitness centers. He just bought a new car and a boat.

WTF?

Why are you puzzled? I also live in Washington, where there is no state income tax and where property taxes are low (not that anyone here understands that.) So you get $8.00 back. What did you pay in and what did you actually pay? Is the $30,000 your AGI (Adjusted Gross Income)? So after the AGI you got a standard deduction, right? And then you got a personal exemption, right? So the actual amount you paid taxes on is far less than $30,000. So do the math for us. Figure out the percentage you paid in taxes based on your gross income.

I'm guessing maybe 3-4%.

Now, I'm guessing your next door neighbor (Your next door neighbor! So you like live in similar housing, right? It's not like you live in the 'hood and he lives in a luxurious mansion.) has worked pretty hard for a number of years and INVESTED in his chain of stores while employing people to work in them, thus creating jobs and expanding the economy and paying a whole boatload more taxes than you do. He wasn't satisfied with just working for $30K a year, so he got a job, got a better job, and now he owns the job. So he put a ton of his own money into this chain of stores, maybe leveraged himself, and now, after a lot of work, he gets to buy a car and a boat. THAT'S KIND OF THE IDEA! If you work both hard and smart and have a goal to NOT work for The Man any longer, you can succeed and "pursue happiness" (on Puget Sound) or whatever you want to do.

Look: You can work for McDonalds or you can own a McDonalds. 50% of the franchisees started out just working for McDonalds. They worked themselves up. You could, too, if you wanted, but don't blame someone for having the energy and brains to be successful. You can emulate them or envy them: Your choice, but take some personal responsibility here for what happens to you.

You can emulate them or envy them: Your choice, but take some personal responsibility here for what happens to you

The system is almost entirely rigged against most people, but all you can do is blame the victims. Nice.

The unspoken problem is that our corporate society has a minimum living cost of about $20,000 a year. Anyone who makes less than that is already in the hole, and cannot be expected to pay taxes on top of high living expenses.

Originally posted by v1rtu0s0

Originally posted by Rockpuck

I have no sympathy for the poor

Is that you, Mitt?

Aw, thanks for taking words out of context. I love displays of inept ignorance.

reply to post by CB328

The system is almost entirely rigged against most people, but all you can do is blame the victims. Nice.

Your right, the system is rigged against most people. That's called life. Most wealthy people in this country are self made, they were born poor, grew up against the odds, and became a success. Every year millions from poor families are producing a quality life for themselves, they worked hard, studied, put in the hours and can say they are far better off than their parents were. There's a lot of corruption at the very top aspect of society, but the idea that poor people are poor because the "system" is against them is utter BS. Some people want everything handed to them, they expect to live like a king when they're ringing up orders at a fast food joint, and wondering how someone else working the same number of hours down the street can afford a new car. Maybe it's not the system .. maybe some people aspire to be more than other people? It's easy to sit there say'n oh I deserve this, and I deserve that, it's quite another to go out and actively try to achieve what you claim to deserve.

reply to post by schuyler


I have no idea what you are talking about.

I am single, with a female companion (who I regard as my "wife"). We live together. Property taxes where we live are higher that the state average. Regardless of that: You assume that I have no desire to work to a higher echelon than where I am (which is fairly comfortable middle class). You also assume that I have no respect for hard work. I do not begrudge my neighbor for what he has, I begrudge the fact that I paid an 11% tax rate on my income after the standard deduction.

I don't hate taxes. I pay what I am supposed to. I know there are people out there who don't. Often times, they are the very rich. They should shoulder the same "burden" as I do. I have never taken advantage of any tax loopholes or even paid an accountant to help me file. I learned how to do it in High School.

reply to post by NuminousCosmos


Not to sound condescending or anything but if you had only $30,000 in taxable income and got $8 back then you would probably be better off taking advantage of those loopholes and possibly hiring someone to do your taxes for you. Making that amount there's no reason why you shouldn't be getting upwards of $1000 back each year.

reply to post by links234


Sometime I wish I had used a tax service...oh well!

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by neo96

 

They are using State taxes in this example. As a percentage of the person's income. It is a little misleading.

It's a lot misleading. Take Texas for example, which has NO state income tax, sales tax (8.25%), and property tax, among a few others. The sales tax is the same across the board; everyone pays the exact same percentage and dollar amount on every item. Property taxes actually are more for rich areas than poor areas, so the rich ARE taxed a larger percentage of their income in property taxes than are poor people.

This article is a joke. Then again, so is Mother Jones.

/TOA

Originally posted by mnemeth1
The rich pay low taxes because they are the business owners and producers.

Let me clue you in on something, you can't tax the rich.

Crap rolls down hill, and the working man is at the bottom.

Any tax on business will immediately be passed through in the form of higher prices.

Any tax on investors will immediately be passed on to the back of working people in the form of fewer PRODUCTIVE jobs. The State will simply spend the money on cronyism or adding more useless bureaucrats to its payrolls.

Fewer productive jobs means less people making washing machines and more people issuing parking tickets. Parking tickets do not improve people's lives. The washing machine on the other hand does.

edit on 5-2-2012 by mnemeth1 because: (no reason given)

I usually find great insight into your responses and your science stuff is a great read, but...



Sorta nicely sums it up.

Derek

I have had boom and bust times in my life -- the thing I learned -- when I was making wages it was really hard work - when I have made salary -- not so hard work. People I know who are really really coupon clipping rich -- even less work. I don't feel sorrow for the rich. I empathize with the poor.

The whole idea that if we tax the rich it will be passed to the middle class is bogus -- if we don't tax them fairly -- the slack is taken up by the middle class, also nobody doesn't exercise a profit making venture because of the taxes they have to pay. If we don't level the playing field the wealth will stick at the top -- the rest of the population will be fighting over fewer and fewer dollars and the whole country will just be circling the drain. I have heard every right wing argument against taxes -- facts prove them wrong.