Denying the Subjective Experience to Justify The Ego

reply to post by NorEaster


would you say that this earthly existence was the birth or beginning of your eternal spirit? do you directly owe and relate that eternal existence to your physical birthdate on this planet?

it is odd to me that like the horse or cat, what you are as a living being, didn't choose to be you, but finding yourself in your position to develop you may certainly take full advantage...

so who or what can we give thanks to for we have done nothing, yet are given eternal life?

I sympathize with those who commit suicide..... existing on a planet, as a human, in a time and place is absolutely ridiculous,, its hard to believe its real, yet to us it is what is real and all we currently know.... those who are pushed physically, emotionally, monetarily and any other way to come to the conclusion that they cannot take existing any more, is this decision necessarily at fault with their spirit, or is this a problem with them... i believe if said person was placed in an environment more fitting they would never have the thought of suicide,, in the same way that if a current heroine addict never knew heroine existed, they would not think of it, desiree it or need it

reply to post by cuchullainuk777


because does a blind mans subjective reality accurately comprehend the objective... an accurate comprehension of the objective cannot be subjective, it can only be truth..

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by cuchullainuk777

 

because does a blind mans subjective reality accurately comprehend the objective... an accurate comprehension of the objective cannot be subjective, it can only be truth..

what is comprehension if nothing but subjective?

reply to post by cuchullainuk777

This will be my only reply to you, as you are too stupid to tolerate a conversation with.

oh and omit the word personal ,because 'their selves' will suffice,because their selves cant be anything other than personal.

You would profit from reading Rene Guenon, Frithjof Schuon, Manly P Hall. etc. Or perhaps anything along the metaphysical-philosophical spectrum.

By personal self I mean your individuality - i.e. your ego. This is distinguished from the essential self, which is beyond the personal individuaity. This is the Hindu Atman, the Islamic Al Khidr, or the Christian Christ.

So looked at ontologically, the self is the essential core of what you are, as a distinct being. The personal self, or Ego, is the individuality which extends from the essential self into the temporal-spatial realm. Thus, the 'self'' is the principle, and the personality, or ego, the manifestation of the principle. The former is simple, and therefore, perfect; the latter is complex, and therefore, imperfect.

reply to post by cuchullainuk777


you said; how can one not comprehend objective reality... they can, but subjectively..
all humans are born in complete ignorance... no matter how much a human knows it is still a blind man to a large amount of objective reality.... science is the ongoing process of perfecting our perception,, learning to see....




do you think that beyond all perception, subjective comprehension, there is an objective reality, a truth. an acurate map of the way all things truly are?

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by cuchullainuk777

 

you said; how can one not comprehend objective reality... they can, but subjectively..

do you think that beyond all perception, subjective comprehension, there is an objective reality, a truth. an acurate map of the way all things truly are?

No matter how,and what way you bend,shape,formulate it the 'objective' it has no reality independant of our 'subjective' perception of 'IT'.And that a load of bollox you say about comprehending the objective,subjectivley think about it i hammer my thumb you can know of my pain but do you know my pain up close and personal?whats it like to be a bat?There is no cognition of any reality that exists independently of cognition.Read 'the triumph of Idealism' by prof.Ward here learn
and here

until then "esse est percipi"

Originally posted by cuchullainuk777
No matter how,and what way you bend,shape,formulate it the 'objective' it has no reality independant of our 'subjective' perception of 'IT'.And that a load of bollox you say about comprehending the objective,subjectivley think about it i hammer my thumb you can know of my pain but do you know my pain up close and personal?whats it like to be a bat?There is no cognition of any reality that exists independently of cognition.

That first sentence, your saying that reality does not exist unless we are here to perceive it? if you were not here the universe would not exist?

or your saying it has no specific meaning, or existence, unless we are in our perception to place a meaning or existence on it?

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by cuchullainuk777

 

This will be my only reply to you, as you are too stupid to tolerate a conversation with.

oh and omit the word personal ,because 'their selves' will suffice,because their selves cant be anything other than personal.

You would profit from reading Rene Guenon, Frithjof Schuon, Manly P Hall. etc. Or perhaps anything along the metaphysical-philosophical spectrum.

By personal self I mean your individuality - i.e. your ego. This is distinguished from the essential self, which is beyond the personal individuaity. This is the Hindu Atman, the Islamic Al Khidr, or the Christian Christ.

So looked at ontologically, the self is the essential core of what you are, as a distinct being. The personal self, or Ego, is the individuality which extends from the essential self into the temporal-spatial realm. Thus, the 'self'' is the principle, and the personality, or ego, the manifestation of the principle. The former is simple, and therefore, perfect; the latter is complex, and therefore, imperfect.

edit on 3-2-2012 by dontreally because: (no reason given)

loool STUPID now is it?says the one who makes a complete f*** up of plain English,You would do well to brush up on grammer and besides those people you quote for my perusal i wouldnt touch with a barge pole,if i want knowledge from source i dont go to the actors i go to the director a person/s of credit and acclaim

Originally posted by ImaFungi

Originally posted by cuchullainuk777
No matter how,and what way you bend,shape,formulate it the 'objective' it has no reality independant of our 'subjective' perception of 'IT'.And that a load of bollox you say about comprehending the objective,subjectivley think about it i hammer my thumb you can know of my pain but do you know my pain up close and personal?whats it like to be a bat?There is no cognition of any reality that exists independently of cognition.

That first sentence, your saying that reality does not exist unless we are here to perceive it? if you were not here the universe would not exist?

or your saying it has no specific meaning, or existence, unless we are in our perception to place a meaning or existence on it?

edit on 3-2-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)

I dont know what reality exists outside of my perception of reality,so my reality is my perception of it.i fire it back at you,is it possible to 'know' in the epistemological sense anything without first perceiving it?i wanted to elucidate this point more by making an analogous link to the unreality of time in order to press home in a more emphatic way what i mean.its late and im shattered ill get back to you on this one

Originally posted by cuchullainuk777
I dont know what reality exists outside of my perception of reality,so my reality is my perception of it.i fire it back at you,is it possible to 'know' in the epistemological sense anything without first perceiving it?i wanted to elucidate this point more by making an analogous link to the unreality of time in order to press home in a more emphatic way what i mean.its late and im shattered ill get back to you on this one

you dont know what reality exists outside of your perception of reality, so your reality is your perception of it...

id say thats true... im tired as well and not sure what were even arguing... what you described is the subjectivity of being human,, is what were speaking of relate to platos allegory of the cave

you do understand and assume that reality beyond your perception exists? such as the microscopic world, atoms,, and the cosmos we cannot directly perceive but now have ways of viewing... so this has to do with what you the perceiver also makes of your perceptions, what you believe them to represent.. and as you grow, it could be every day that your reality changes.... it come be within seconds... if we are facing each other and i see a bald eagle behind you about to attack, you have no way of perceiving it, it is not apart of your reality,.... also you would take perceiving to include all of our senses, and scientific apparatus.... is this an argument of awareness... does our society have a grander perception, more accurate perception of reality then humans did 3000 years ago? if i cant prove something exists in reality with my perception, or prove to your perception ( pics or it didn't happen) then that something i wish to prove does not exist.... what if 2000 years ago someone said in the future there will be cars.... what if someone tried convincing people the earth was round, and in reality he was correct, but the people of the time could not perceive his more accurate claims of reality..... is it cheating for me to assume that everything that i dont know exists, exists somewhere, some how, some when.

is it possible to know anything without first perceiving it.... I think you got me,, in the sense i immediately realize, our knowledge... what we know is a product of all of our senses, or perceptions,, that the only way we know anything is our senses to perceive,.. but at the same time,,. once we achieve a certain level of base input,.,. we can create original ideas that have no grounding in perceptual reality? the definition of knowing is tough because what we think we "know" changes, i know you gave the definition of know.... but if you tell me all about a circle, and i can imagine it, would you telling me about it be my perception, or you dont think i could truly know a circle without perceiving.... a blind man can draw a circle with his finger in the sand to know a circle....... this reminds me of AI,, how can a computer truly know the significance and scope of the human data it is inputted with, if it can never perceive this earthly reality.... in a way we are artificial intelligence which has senses, we determine our own input to a degree, and how we like to compute, what to memorize, etc...

i might have missed a lot of ideas i could have embellished or traversed but yea, if you can weed out any coherence and reply back, that would be cool.

Originally posted by Ralphy
Do people deny being subjective in life to try to assert that their ego is in full control of their life? These seem like the people that think everything can be controlled and predicted. It sure makes the ego look good to say that it is not subjected to anything other than itself which doesn't make much sense to me. I'm not trying to make this a god issue but we are still subject to reality whether you want to call it god or something else.

Ralphy....I have a MASSIVE EGO. I need it. I am not petty and I never treat people as if I am above them but I have certain functions to perform and this Big Ego is a necessity.

There is a difference between have a False Ego and having a Massive EGO for a purpose. The person with a false ego is usually someone of very little capability other than to be able to exert control over a small group of others that a just a small step down in knowledge than this other person or perhaps they are even smarter but lack the ability to exert their knowledge or wisdom or have leadership ability.

I am a leader in multiple aspects of things...Companies, Entertainment....and a third job that I do time to time which is dangerous. In all three of these things...people are counting on me to know what to do...they expect me to...and this is my job...to lead them and solve problems and I have been doing this for over 25 years in one and longer in the others.

My point is...without my ability to call upon my EGO...I could not do my jobs. People sometimes confuse EGO with arrogance...that is true if a person of strong ego will not take advice or think they have done and seen it all or the one thing my Parents and a Professor taught me....there is ALWAYS something new to learn every day and never dismiss an idea before hearing it out just because you have made the mistake of prejudging the sourse of the information.

I am a World Class Musician who still tours although not as much because I am older. But to get up on stage infront of 100,000 people at an outdoor gig....takes a set. and EGO at that exact point is everything.
Split Infinity

reply to post by ImaFungi
Thanks for a courteous reply much worthy of an equally lenghthy and thoughtful response so with that in mind i will reply accordingly after having digested info at hand.I was absolutely shattered last night and left it late coming on today and im off out celebrating a friends birthday we are off to try a persian restaurant of all things lol.But ill save my reply till tommorrow or monday thanks