If you had never been born? A thought...

Here is an intersting thing I've been pondering of late, and I couldn't find the exact forum for it but maybe this is the one.

Our lives, as we know within ourselves, is something we often take for granted. We accept that WE are US. We are the being that inhabits our body. Our soul, so to speak, is what we know to be us.

But is it really the corporal body that we are, or is it a fundamental 'soul' that makes us who we are?

Say your parents give birth to you, you grow up a certain way, yet always feel as if you are not confined to that existence. Can you imagine your life, as the person you know within your heart and body, being the same if it had been born to others?

Do we, as individuals, take more from life to experience it, than we already have, or are we predestined to be who we are?

Imagine you were born to entirely different parents. In another entire life.. Would YOU still be you? Are we all that we are, due to life experience?

Or would you become something entirely different? I often think that I am beyond the total sum of my own life, because even as a small child I felt as if I was separate.

I felt as if I had been simply united with a family I grew to love and accept. Is that just normal childhood acceptance of a world we grow into? Or do we all overcome that initial recognition that we're more than what we are, but confined by a set of life rules we as children are exposed to?

I dunno if I'm making any sense, but basically I guess I'm asking - Do we as individuals, choose our path in life, or are we already a soul set in motion, without choice, but thrust into life?

I guess this can also bring to the table the concept of reincarnation. But that is not my question, I suppose.

Is life a thing we're supposed to play in order to move on, or do we really mean no more than the roll of a dice, in terms of expectation?

????

Answer this one,"does anybody really know what they look like?"...great thought op.

reply to post by mainidh


Dear mainidh,

What a great question. S&F. If I may give my take on it. Our essence is our emotions, we learn a language and learn to determine our emotions, to effect how we respond to the world around us. Our responses become our relationships and effect those we interact with. You may not have chosen your parents; but, your choices effected them and you developed for good or bad based on your interactions, that means that you did have some say in the matter.

If you had never been born, the world would not be as it is today. You effected your parents, your friends, your siblings and people that you never knew you effected. When I was much younger I used to perform a particular exercise, doesn't matter what it was, I practiced everyday and eventually performed it so well that I was one of the top ten in history (at that time, 35 years ago). About a decade after that my mother told me a story. A young boy had watched me practice, he had some disabilities and decided that he could put in the same sort of effort to his life. My silly exercise had inspired him to take control of his life, that he could excel if he put in the effort. I never thought about the effect my exercise was having on others, it was not the intent, I just wanted to see how far I could push myself in this particular area.

You matter, you choose who you are and we all start with our own individual challenges and advantages. There is a speaker who has a YouTube video called, "No Arms, No legs, No Problem". I recommend you watch it, he is amazing. I certainly won't claim that I could have done what he did if I had been born in his situation and you know what, he may not have been capable of doing what I did if he had been born in mine, we are each unique and special. Peace.

reply to post by mainidh


No such thing as reincarnation. According to what i believe you were appointed to be a prophet of God before you were born. In other words God's foreknowledge is so vast he knew he was going to create you and what purpose and role you would have in life.

The book of Ephesians basically says were predistined for those of us to believe in Christ and be his people, that we were chosen before the foundation of the world to be his people.

Such as it is, there it is. Not saying you folks have to believe in this, it's your choice. This is just a tenet of christianity and judaism.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Dear lonewolf19792000,

I had just read and responded to your new thread and went back to check the other threads I was watching and saw your post here. I don't wish to argue; but, would like to mention how we can look at this issue slightly differently.

No such thing as reincarnation. According to what i believe you were appointed to be a prophet of God before you were born. In other words God's foreknowledge is so vast he knew he was going to create you and what purpose and role you would have in life.

It is free will, I don't believe God ever makes us do anything against our will unless we made a promise first and then try and reneg. I do believe that he understands us well enough to know what choices we will make and he puts us in the place where that choice will work towards his will. We should consider that you cannot have rebellion if we have no choice, it would merely be following his positioning of us. That would require him to want us to do wrong and turn from him. My thoughts, peace.

reply to post by AQuestion


I think I have seen him, he's an Aussie too iirc?! That man is a true inspiration, and surely amkes anyone who feels inadequate in life fall short of their own problems to consider, he has so many yet prevails.

I didn't mean to seem as if I was coming across as unhappy in all of it, I think. More that, sometimes when we look into a mirror, we see what the rest of the world sees. Not our flaws, but just us. We experience life as US always. But is it more than that?

Our existence today is indeed made of our life experiences, but they do not define us. Not at all, I was more asking, would we still have that strength or lack of, if we we're born entirely different.

Would Ghandi have been the same person had he been born as a member of the royal family in the UK. Or would the life thrust upon him forced that into submission to be taken over by the life he was expected to live?

Sometimes, when we have little expectation, we DO become something different. Is that the way, or is it yet another 'experience' we adjust to?

I get your post, and star!! Thank you for your thoughts!!

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Dear lonewolf19792000,

I want to add a caveat to my original response. I think sometimes God picks certain people to fulfill certain roles, I think with that they may have to give up a certain amount of free will; but, I believe he chooses them because he knows that is the choice they will want to make. I don't think that happens often, Noah, Job rather than prophets.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by mainidh

 

No such thing as reincarnation. According to what i believe you were appointed to be a prophet of God before you were born. In other words God's foreknowledge is so vast he knew he was going to create you and what purpose and role you would have in life.

The book of Ephesians basically says were predistined for those of us to believe in Christ and be his people, that we were chosen before the foundation of the world to be his people.

Such as it is, there it is. Not saying you folks have to believe in this, it's your choice. This is just a tenet of christianity and judaism.

I wish they had handed out manuals in this then. I was born and raised Christian. Yet, little of my life shows it. Not because I opposed it, but because it became diametrically opposed to how I saw life.

If my life is to steer others towards christ, he sure left me without a rudder. And I do not think bad of religious folk, my mother is still christian. I just feel that wheel turns the other way for me..

Now what if I'd been raised in Saudi Arabia. With the religious fervor there, would I still be questioning life? Or would I suppress it? Or would I have never had the thought cross my mind?

Would I still be me, had I been raised on the roads of Baghdad?

Or Ireland? Or anywhere but the land I was born?

That is my question... Would I still be me with parents who were not mine. Or, entirely, does my life exist today because of the chance existence I had being born where I was???

I'm not talking about theological things.. I'm talking about that thing inside us all, that tells us who we are?! That thing that ascends the physical world, that thing that dreams..

reply to post by mainidh


Dear mainidh,

I didn't mean to seem as if I was coming across as unhappy in all of it, I think. More that, sometimes when we look into a mirror, we see what the rest of the world sees. Not our flaws, but just us. We experience life as US always. But is it more than that?

Again, great questions and good post. Maybe because I am a Christian I see things a certain way. When I look in the mirror I have never seen what others saw, I always see who I chose to be. Ever since I was a child I knew that this world attempts to mold us and the one thing I wanted was to choose who I would be. I see my flaws and my strengths and try not to hide from either. I think we have that much free will; but, there is a price if you will not chase the cookies of this world.

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by mainidh

 

Dear mainidh,

I didn't mean to seem as if I was coming across as unhappy in all of it, I think. More that, sometimes when we look into a mirror, we see what the rest of the world sees. Not our flaws, but just us. We experience life as US always. But is it more than that?

Again, great questions and good post. Maybe because I am a Christian I see things a certain way. When I look in the mirror I have never seen what others saw, I always see who I chose to be. Ever since I was a child I knew that this world attempts to mold us and the one thing I wanted was to choose who I would be. I see my flaws and my strengths and try not to hide from either. I think we have that much free will; but, there is a price if you will not chase the cookies of this world.

I grew up never knowing what I was to be, and to sit alone, silent and witness my reflection.. I see what others see, that I never knew. I'm not offended by it, but indeed I regret a lot of my 49 years.

I suppose it's a matter, in my case, of leaving things too long.

Sometimes, I just feel as if I had no choice in it all, and this I now question. Do we? I was never asked. Sounds like a cop out putting it that way, but in all honesty, it is as if I arrived here one day, and was asked for my ticket. All I had was a life story that told no tale, yet resulted in my appearance.

Silly really, and as I said I'm not unhappy with it all, I just want to ask if all of this was merely a set path, or .. anyway, it is what it is.

I do however, not have a single mirror in this house

I wonder still, had I been born in another time, would I still question everything.. I hope not, as short as it is, life has no real answers.

reply to post by mainidh


Dear mainidh,

Sometimes, I just feel as if I had no choice in it all, and this I now question. Do we? I was never asked. Sounds like a cop out putting it that way, but in all honesty, it is as if I arrived here one day, and was asked for my ticket. All I had was a life story that told no tale, yet resulted in my appearance.

We all grow at our own speed and in our own way. By the way, I am 52 and autistic. I will tell you two stories, both true as far as I know. The first is about a very dear friend of mine who passed away a couple of years ago. He told me he was standing in line at McDonalds one day and there was a lady in front of him who appeared homeless and couldn't afford her burger, she was short like a nickel. The line had to wait while she tried to negotiate the nickel and couldn't. He said nothing and did nothing because he was afraid of how the other people in the line might judge him. She left without the burger and he felt bad and promised himself that if anything like that ever happened again, he would ignore the social pressure and have paid for the meal. He kept that promise to himself and I witnessed his love and giving (this all happened before I met him and he became my assistant although he was older than I).

The second story is about someone I worked for. He was an administrator's administrator. I on the other hand was considered a loose cannon and would fight anyone if I thought they were doing the wrong thing. I managed to make some changes that were unpopular at the time; but, later people understood that the organization would not have continued if I had not forced the issues. Eventually I replaced the man after he retired. I saw him at a retirement party for another and he told me something that touched me deeply. He said that he had made a mistake in his career, that he had been so busy trying to not rock the boat and be part of the team that he had failed to make some changes that he knew should have been done, he credited me with his coming to that understanding. I found out that after he retired he dedicated his life to service to others and charity work. I felt bad that he had to come to the conclusion that he had not done enough when he could have; but, he was wrong, he did enough when he was ready.

Whatever has happened in your life, you can take control now. This can be the time when you define you and lose whatever you feel held you back from determining and living you. I cannot change the past but I can learn from it. This may be hard to understand; but, I love being autistic, we are free to be us because we really don't let others define us, we don't even understand their attempts to. I don't wish you to think being autistic is easy, it is a dual edge sword, it also takes us a very long time to learn how to interact with others in person. Regardless of who you have been, you can choose who you want to be going forward and it is freeing. Best wishes on your journey, it is your life, own it. Peace.

reply to post by AQuestion


you, my friend, are more an answer then AQuestion.

Thank you for your words, believe me they are taken on board, it's rare I say that in this world.

I wish I could give you more stars.

My long road will take me many places even as my age grows, and it's good to know that even at the end of that journey, there may still be good people to talk to.

I guess its boils down to, we never know what we're given until we do not have that choice. I suppose my question was rather obvious, yet vague. we are who we are.


And also peace to you my friend. Soothing words for a sore soul. Thank you AQuestion.

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Dear lonewolf19792000,

I had just read and responded to your new thread and went back to check the other threads I was watching and saw your post here. I don't wish to argue; but, would like to mention how we can look at this issue slightly differently.

No such thing as reincarnation. According to what i believe you were appointed to be a prophet of God before you were born. In other words God's foreknowledge is so vast he knew he was going to create you and what purpose and role you would have in life.

It is free will, I don't believe God ever makes us do anything against our will unless we made a promise first and then try and reneg. I do believe that he understands us well enough to know what choices we will make and he puts us in the place where that choice will work towards his will. We should consider that you cannot have rebellion if we have no choice, it would merely be following his positioning of us. That would require him to want us to do wrong and turn from him. My thoughts, peace.

He doesn't make you do anything against your will, but he has a plan for you he set down before the foundation of the world but it is your choice in wether or not you trust him and walk down that road. But there are those of us who were chosen to be the people of Christ and as such (i believe) we were given a position towards being able to more readily accept the Messiah. As during his 3 years of ministry, there were thousands of jews that converted and accepted him while there were many more who rejected him. All the jews knew the prophecy of his coming by the prophets, they knew exactly who he was when he fulfilled those prophecies. We know this when the jews cheered when he rode through the East Gate riding on an ass (donkey colt) as was prophecied and the people laid down their cloaks and (palm or olive) branches and cried Hoshanna (worshipping praise) as he rode into Jerusalem.

You are what you are, but unlike Popeye, that is not ALL that you are. My studies have convinced me that God is multi-layered and multi-dimensional, and if we are made in His image, that means that we are too. Beyond that, the questions you raise are imponderable, but note that Paul stated that we do not know what we will be in the kingdom of God. That means transformation, being upgraded to "Mark II" status.

Explore what you are and can be. Find out that you are not exactly what you think you are. Try this experiment - get a good quality tape or digital recorder and a good microphone. Record your voice. Play it back over decent equipment, and note that the sound of your voice is very different than you think. When I did it, I was shocked.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Dear loonewolf19792000,

I think we are in agreement, we just used different words. Peace.

reply to post by mainidh

Say your parents give birth to you, you grow up a certain way, yet always feel as if you are not confined to that existence. Can you imagine your life, as the person you know within your heart and body, being the same if it had been born to others?

I don't believe you would be the same person... Everyone is different, and so is everyones parents... so what you are taught as a child might be different... you may have different morals and different values.

Though you would have the same spirit...

Imagine you were born to entirely different parents. In another entire life.. Would YOU still be you? Are we all that we are, due to life experience?

Your spirit would be the same... your being would be a different person, everything would be different... Your experiences shape who you are in this life

I felt as if I had been simply united with a family I grew to love and accept. Is that just normal childhood acceptance of a world we grow into? Or do we all overcome that initial recognition that we're more than what we are, but confined by a set of life rules we as children are exposed to?

Not all people grow to love and respect their family...

I dunno if I'm making any sense, but basically I guess I'm asking - Do we as individuals, choose our path in life, or are we already a soul set in motion, without choice, but thrust into life?

We choose our path as we age... but we are also a soul "set in motion" and always have been... and will continue to be until you learn what you are here to learn... til that time you will be "thrust" back into the physical world over and over...

To put it bluntly... You are born into what you deserve....

This thread reminds me of one of my favorite movies, "It's a Wonderful Life". You should watch it if you haven't already seen it. It's in black and white and probably from the 1940's or so with Jimmy Stewart. It's a Christmas type movie but I enjoy watching it anytime of the year.