Question for those who workout regularly

Hey guys ive been working out on and off for a few years now but am getting pretty serious about it now. Im always active playing sports (ice hockey) in particular and have wanted to boost m muscle gains. So i have heard people discussing creatine. Ive researched it thorougly and it seems relatively safe (with ample water intake).. alright back on track.. i bought this pretty new brand of creatine called con-cret. It is the first hydrochloride creatine and has no fillers and is extremely soluable. Also, there is no cycling needed nor loading with other products.. My question to you guys is whats your input on this substance and also is it harmful, if so how?

Also, i am a freshmen in college 18..

Originally posted by Jbones
Hey guys ive been working out on and off for a few years now but am getting pretty serious about it now. Im always active playing sports (ice hockey) in particular and have wanted to boost m muscle gains. So i have heard people discussing creatine. Ive researched it thorougly and it seems relatively safe (with ample water intake).. alright back on track.. i bought this pretty new brand of creatine called con-cret. It is the first hydrochloride creatine and has no fillers and is extremely soluable. Also, there is no cycling needed nor loading with other products.. My question to you guys is whats your input on this substance and also is it harmful, if so how?

Also, i am a freshmen in college 18..

I've never used any powders other than protein shakes so I really don't have a personal experience with it...

But I've never seen it hurt anyone I work out with (creatine that is, not sure about your particular brand).

On another note though, I am 5' 10" and weigh 200lbs. Never had to do anything except eat right and work my ass off. Then again, I've never been a big muscle-head either... I just love lifting heavy weights...

So after all this.. I realize I have done nothing to answer your questions.

Diet is the most important thing. I eat around 4000 calories per day. That is what it takes me to "maintain". "Diet" doesn't mean cutting back on your food intake... it means eating better foods. Again though, I am no builder... just a recreational lifter.

Although I have seem some down-right astonishing specimens of humans that have gone all-natural in body building also...

Creatine is good, boosts water retention in the muscles making the look and feel bigger with adequate training make sure you have a protein intake every 3 hours train 4 times a week, 3 min, it's not dangerous if you have good water intake and give your body a break from it every couple months, will notice the difference if you use it correctly. Good luck

I am a big believer in that you do not need creatine or protein supplements. I workout on the regular and all I do to build mass and maintain a cut physique is eat lean proteins and watch my calorie and carb intake. Diet is the other half of your workout, supplements are not necessary. imo. Good luck.

Oh and one more thing. I have found that switching up your workouts or doing a workout differently than usual helps in the development of the target muscle group.

reply to post by causeimalive


Why would you not use protein supplements or creatine if your goal is to build mass? I agree with the lean protein but for convenience protein shakes are a must IMO

Originally posted by Frankel
reply to post by causeimalive

 

Why would you not use protein supplements or creatine if your goal is to build mass? I agree with the lean protein but for convenience protein shakes are a must IMO

I politely disagree, why would it not make sense that you can get all the nutrients and protein you need from a steady well thought out diet? As opposed to say... spending hundreds of dollars on supplements? Everything you need is already in front of you. Your entitled to your own opinion but I am saying that this has worked for me. With great results.

And as far as the convenience of protein shakes... you can make your own. You already put in the effort of working out, why not take it a small step further?

Creatine is safe as long as you stay hydrated. It is one of those supplements that actually does what they say it does, and apart from fish oil, multivitamin, and whey protein, it is the only supplement I use. I have used it since 2001, never had a problem, and I have only used creatine monohydrate.

However, supplement companies have formulated numerous "new" form of creatine, stating that they are more bio-available, greater solubility, etc. etc. For the most part, these new forms are just ways to get people excited about an old, proven product, so that they will pay more for the "newer better stuff." The truth is, creatine monohydrate is no less soluble than any of these other forms if you mix it in warm water, where it will dissolve completely, making it just as bio-available as any other, more expensive, form of creatine.

Contrary to common belief, a loading phase is not absolutely required, and for a few people it is not advisable due to occassional stomach cramping. The idea is to saturate the muscles with creatine for future use, and this can be done very quickly with a loading phase, or gradually by taking 5-10 grams a day. I have found many creatine makers calling for 15-20 grams daily for 2 weeks as a loading phase, and I must say that this is not necessary at all. In addition, once your muscle reach full saturation, they will remain saturated for 2 or 3 weeks, even if supplementation is halted.

Your body makes its own creatine, and meats contain creatine, but muscle saturation is generally not possible by those means alone, which is why creatine supplementation is so effective. It must, however, be accompanied by a complete workout program and a well planned diet, or there will be little or no effect at all.

Also, about the above comment regarding not supplementing at all, he is correct, you don't NEED creatine or whey protein....as long as you can eat at least your body weight in kilograms in grams of protein a day, which for most people is just impossible, not to mention the cost of such a diet. This means that if I weigh 150 kg, I would need to eat at very least 150 grams of protein to gain muscle mass. This would require cooking huge amounts of food as well as a massive grocery bill. Whey protein is effective, cheap when compared to meats in protein content, is very bio-available which makes it great for before and after a workout, and it is very convenient.

Good luck.

Originally posted by OrchusGhule

Also, about the above comment regarding not supplementing at all, he is correct, you don't NEED creatine or whey protein....as long as you can eat AT LEAST your body weight in grams of protein a day, which for most people is just impossible, not to mention the cost of such a diet. This means that since I weight 185 lbs, I would need to eat at least 185 grams of protein to gain muscle mass. This would require cooking huge amounts of food as well as a massive grocery bill. Whey protein is effective, cheap when compared to meats in protein content, is very bio-available which makes it great for before and after a workout, and it is very convenient.

Good luck.

I thought your post started off nice and strong, it was the end of it that set me back.
Eating your "weight" in protein is ridiculous not only in the stand point of you needing that much protein to build muscle, but also, just the simple fact that you threw out such a statement and believe that some miracle shake is necessary to accomplish preconceived means.

Most experts believe that most people get more than enough protein daily. In fact, some believe the average sedentary American eats about 50% more than the recommended daily amount, which ranges from 40-70 grams each day depending on your gender, age and situation. If you're an exerciser, however, your protein needs may increase since resistance training and endurance workouts can rapidly break down muscle protein. A position statement published by the ADA, DOC and ACSM recommends that endurance and strength-trained athletes have between 1.2 and 1.7 g/kg (0.5 - 0.8 grams per pound) of protein for the best performance and health. What if you're trying to build more muscle? Shouldn't you eat even more protein? Not necessarily. There's evidence that bodybuilders, much like exercisers or athletes, do require more protein but that any more than double the RDA won't necessarily help you build more muscle. In one study, experts studied three groups of weight lifters: A low protein group (0.86 g/kg), a moderate protein group (1.40 g/kg) and a high protein group (2.40 g/kg) and found that, "There were no effects of varying protein intake on indexes of lean body mass." In essence, the more you exercise, the greater your protein needs will be. However, taking it too far, for example more than doubling your protein intake, won't necessarily help you build more muscle.

Here is the link in case you want to calculate your own protein intake.

Thanks guys all your post are very helpful, the only supplements i am taking now are a multi-vitamin, fish oil, and whey protein. Those have worked well for me daily and i figured why not give creatine a try so I will be going through my first 24 servings starting tomorrow. Also i have been told it is best taken about 1 hr. before a workout, any truth to that? and also should it be taken every day, or only on lift days? (If it matter i am active just about every day.. hockey 5 times a week)

Originally posted by causeimalive



I thought your post started off nice and strong, it was the end of it that set me back.
Eating your "weight" in protein is ridiculous not only in the stand point of you needing that much protein to build muscle, but also, just the simple fact that you threw out such a statement and believe that some miracle shake is necessary to accomplish preconceived means.

Most experts believe that most people get more than enough protein daily. In fact, some believe the average sedentary American eats about 50% more than the recommended daily amount, which ranges from 40-70 grams each day depending on your gender, age and situation. If you're an exerciser, however, your protein needs may increase since resistance training and endurance workouts can rapidly break down muscle protein. A position statement published by the ADA, DOC and ACSM recommends that endurance and strength-trained athletes have between 1.2 and 1.7 g/kg (0.5 - 0.8 grams per pound) of protein for the best performance and health. What if you're trying to build more muscle? Shouldn't you eat even more protein? Not necessarily. There's evidence that bodybuilders, much like exercisers or athletes, do require more protein but that any more than double the RDA won't necessarily help you build more muscle. In one study, experts studied three groups of weight lifters: A low protein group (0.86 g/kg), a moderate protein group (1.40 g/kg) and a high protein group (2.40 g/kg) and found that, "There were no effects of varying protein intake on indexes of lean body mass." In essence, the more you exercise, the greater your protein needs will be. However, taking it too far, for example more than doubling your protein intake, won't necessarily help you build more muscle.

Here is the link in case you want to calculate your own protein intake.

What the hell is so miraculous about whey protein? The stuff has been around for over 40 years, and has been used by millions of people and is proven to work as a viable supplement to meat proteins. I'm not saying you can just drink the stuff and get big, pal. And I didn't just "throw it out there". I did however say pounds when I meant kilograms, which I will correct. Sorry about that. I did not say it was necessary. See my first sentence in that paragraph?

Many studies have suggested 1.2g of total protein per kg of bodyweight for endurance athletes, and as much as 1.8g of protein per kg of body weight for strength training athletes. I also suggest doing a bit more research than About.com, but the study you cite states what I meant to say. And when I say total protein, I mean complete proteins, like meat and whey proteins, not the proteins found in grains and nuts.

From the study you cited:

"A suggested recommended intake for S (sedentary) was 0.89 g.kg-1.day-1 and for SA was 1.76 g.kg-1.day-1. For SA (strength athletes), the LP diet did not provide adequate protein and resulted in an accommodated state (decreased WBPS vs. MP and HP), and the MP diet resulted in a state of adaptation [increase in WBPS (vs. LP) and no change in leucine oxidation (vs. LP)]. The HP diet did not result in increased WBPS compared with the MP diet, but leucine oxidation did increase significantly, indicating a nutrient overload."

And from the article:

"Use a lower number if you are in good health and are sedentary (i.e., 0.8). Use a higher number (between 1 and 1.8) if you are under stress, are pregnant, are recovering from an illness, or if you are involved in consistent and intense weight or endurance training."

The bottom line being if you don't eat enough protein, you can actually lose muscle mass from a strength training program. I personally tried to gain weight without whey protein, and I just could not eat enough and was stuffed and bloated all day. Whey protein however, should only comprise 1/3 of protein intake in a day, which is why its called a supplement and not a replacement. There have been countless studies proving the effectiveness of whey protein in strength training athletes. Are you disputing decades of research regarding whey protein?

Also, I think you are misinterpreting my endorsement of whey protein as a get big quick supplement. There are no get big quick supplements and any supplement that claims otherwise is utterly full of s**t. I also nowhere stated that whey protein is MORE effective than meat proteins, because it is not. It is simply more cost effective gram per gram than meat proteins, more convenient, and is broken down and absorbed by the intestines faster than meat protein.

reply to post by causeimalive


So let's review. What was so ridiculous about my original statement? You proved I was correct with the source you cited.

According to the study cited, a 185 pound person should intake at least 151 grams of protein per day to gain muscle mass, and there are many within the bodybuilding community, such as Will Brink, Polequin, and others, who suggest 1 gram of protein per POUND of body weight. This can also vary with activity levels outside of workouts. For instance, if you are active in a strenuous job all day, and then go lift weights, you will need more grams of protein per kilogram of body weight than a person sitting at a desk all day if you want to gain muscle mass.

Please tell me you did not think I was saying that if you weigh 185 pounds that you need to intake 185 pounds of protein a day....

reply to post by causeimalive


Make your own protein shakes lmao, at a cost of unbelievable time and money when you can just pick up the stuff just as good I might add off the shelf and it is pretty cost effective, you my friend don't have the first idea about bulking, I'm not talking about putting on a little bit of lean muscle I'm talking bulking to make massive gains I.e eating so much you need to rely on the protein shakes because you just can physically eat anymore, and the comment about Americans alrdy getting enough protein in there diets what a load of rubbish, so pretty much anyone in America could start lifting and making huge gains with the diet they currently have, yeah right. it amazes me the amount of rubbish that is posted on this site by people who in general think they have an idea but don't have the first clue.

OP please don't listen to this fool you will be stuck lifting not gaining for months and months spending unbelievable amounts of money on 'lean protein' see no progress become disillusioned and give up.

If you want to gain seriously listen to this these are the main factors miss out on of these you might as well not bother working out.

Lift 4 times a week for min of 1 1/2 hour intence training sessions switching muscle groups (plenty of good training plans for this on the Internet)

Keep your lifts heavy don't pussy foot around with weights that you can manage easy you need to be tearing up the muscle fibres every session so they can be built on.

Eat every 2 1/2 hours good amount of Chicken/Turkey with boiled Broccoli (boiled for 3/4 mins) (acts as a natural testostorone booster) bearing in mind you have to eat in another 2 1/2 hours, when you cannot stomach any more miss this out for a protein shake (30 grams protein min).

Sleep 8 hours a night very important for muscle recovery.

Use creatine for extra gains, but up your water intake.

Give up the alcohol completely, drink plenty of water.

And this is the most important of all don't listen to idiots who will try and tell you that you 'don't need protein shakes to build lean muscle' when they are a very useful important tool and makes no sense to leave them out when your goal is to build muscle and provide your body with as much protein as it could possibly need to use at a cost that is affordable.

reply to post by Frankel


That's it exactly. I've met the "no supplements" guys before, they are usually the smallest guys at the gym, and they always have a big gut to accompany their small muscles because they have to eat so much that their food does not fully digest, which itself can pose serious health problems. I have known a couple that equate supplements with drugs, and lump them in with steroids. They take this dogmatic stance that supplements are drugs and regardless of the research they believe there are not any types of supplements that work. I think we have one of those in this thread who does not realize that creatine and whey protein powder are the 2 most effective supplements available and are used by nearly EVERY SINGLE PROFESSIONAL ATHLETE in the country today. Seriously, I challenge anyone to find a professional athlete in the USA who does not use protein powder on a regular basis. I'm willing to bet there is not a single one.

reply to post by YouAreLiedTo
hey man i want to suggest you if u want to make body a good body please dont use suppliments only use
natural things like eggs or any thing
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