Britain to ban hunting

Originally posted by Minime
And it's good for the Fox to get you pet rabbit is it?

I didn't say i supported hunting... read the the post properly!

What I'm saying is there arn't any plans to care for the hounds, what happens to them???

Mr Michael said the two year delay would give people time to re-home hounds and look at converting to drag hunting and other business activities.

i think a ban in the near future would be best because of the above reasons

BBC News

what's drag hunting?? or do i even want to know

- i still agree with banning hunting with hounds now

Originally posted by Kriz_4
I guess it comes down to this: Some people enjoy killing. Some people enjoy killing creatures that can't fight back.

A little less pointless death is good in my opinion.

smokenmirrors, thank you for your irrelevant post.

You are welcome. I sense a bit of disdain for an alternative belief system, nonetheless, I shall voice it, and that is, hunting is fine, it is not a problem here in the U.S., in fact, the game here, deer, fox, buffalo, and the like, is doing quite well. Were it not for our hunting, the deer population would certainly explode, and be decimated by starvation and disease,

however, due to the fact I am an "American", I assume I am thereby precluded from commenting with any authority on exclusively "British" pasttimes, though I shall do so in any event.....

A Brit should be allowed to hunt if he/she so pleases, period.

have a nice day.

Originally posted by Pyros
Well, in a few years when the fox population soars, and sheep farmers start using leg traps, you may find some second guessing.

Leg Traps

Which death is more humane?

I take it you have never lived in the UK. The hunt of this type is not population control, it doesn't happen very regulary. Fox population is stable due to the fact there is so little habitat for them, there is no where for this population to expand to.

I suggest the mirrors guy also spends time here in the UK. It is a compact densly populated country. There are almost no places for "a brit to hunt if he wants too". Its mainly private land.

Nothing wrong with hunting

Hurrah!!! Down with the uneducated upper crust on horseback.

Let them go back to snorting coc aine and saying "do you know who i am" at their exclusive clubs.

Being from a large family that includes those who take part in this I can testify that is is indeed incredibly brutal to watch. The only thing more cringeworthy than the death of the fox is the conversations with those who are on horseback. They act like they've been sent by God himself to do this heroic mission.

I foresee the Jodhpur business collapsing overnight.

Hurrah for democracy.

Originally posted by Nerdling
Hurrah!!! Down with the uneducated upper crust on horseback.

Let them go back to snorting coc aine and saying "do you know who i am" at their exclusive clubs.

Indeed! I have spent many a time watching the stuck up 'silver spoon in mouth' types tramping around the countryside with not a single regard for property, public, traffic, etc!
I do not disagree with hunting or pest control. I myself have been known for shooting 'pest' animals. But I ensure that the kill is clinical and quick. With as little suffering to the animal as possible. Dare I say it, as hypocritical as it sounds, I actually feel guilty for what I have done when I do and I do not get any real pleasure from it. The only reason I do it is because I have to, and if I didn't the alternatives would be worse - for the animal in question.

While I understand the 'thrill of the chase' I think the manner in which the fox is killed is barbaric. Even forgetting the actual act of killing it, the quite often hours of fear the poor animal has to endure while being chased is ridicolous and un-necessary. If we are so intelligant and higly evolved surely it is obvious to all that this is no way to treat a fellow inhabitant of this planet.
Yes, they are quite often pests, and yes (even though I get no pleasure from it) often they have to be killed. But fox hunting in the traditional sense is purely gaining pleasure from watching the suffering of a fellow creature, not an 'innocent' creature I hasten to add as they cause us a lot of problems. But for such an advanced race we sure hell seem to be able to demonstrate a huge amount of evil in this 'sport'.

I know a lot of people are probably against Guns, which are of course the best options for dealing with pests, especially after the recent incident in this country involving the 13 yr old kid that was shot accidently (though I dont know the details I must say).
Yes, fair enough, but accidents happen - I know that might sound harsh but I have had to deal with quite a bit of death myself. I have lost a lot of peple close to me in the last couple of years. Especially considering I live in England and don't have any close family or friends in the services.
Two of the people were killed in a car accident, but I don't say we should ban cars. Cars kill more people in this country than guns, but I wouldn't expect people to ban cars. I expect PEANUTS kill more people in this country than guns but they won't BAN THE PEANUT! We can't be be a nanny society, but that is another subject.
What about if a loose child was in the field and got ravaged by the dogs? Would that then be reason to ban traditional fox hunting?

I have always been in two minds about this subject because on one fence I have always been wanting to protect the rights of our people in an ever increasing nanny state.
While on the other fence I do believe that traditional fox hunting is cruel and
wrong.

While I do not wish to see our privileges taken away, I must firmly state on this occasion that I think traditional fox hunting should be banned.


Now for my trademark sarcastic remark:

As for the future of the hounds:

If the plan is for the ban to be enforced in a couple of years which I believe it is? Not sure 100% there I must admit..
Then there should not be a problem, the dogs can be re-trained and re-homed. If they really are so vicious they cannot be homed then they have to be destroyed...
Oh sorry.. wait a minute? that's cruel isn't it - you can't humanely destroy a dog because it probably will hurt a human can you? Oh!! But it's OK to torture a fox because it rummages through your rubbish and kills some chickens?
Yeah right..................


[edit on 15-9-2004 by AgentSmith]

If the fox hunters are upset over the ban, they can just move to America wher they can rip them to shreds with AK47's to their hearts content.

Im all for Fox Hunting...

Only because it was one of Tony The traitor Blairs ideas and id rather suck my own *ahem* than agree to ANYTHING he puts forward.

DOWN WITH THE TREEHUGGERS!

RELEASE THE HOUNDS.........

Originally posted by Netchicken
If the fox hunters are upset over the ban, they can just move to America wher they can rip them to shreds with AK47's to their hearts content.

well said

ask a fox hunter how would he/she feel if a pride of lion's hunted down their dogs!

edit: I just remembered a letter from the readers section of the Daily Mail, they said 'Ban fox hunting and start a new sport... yob hunting'

[edit on 15-9-2004 by UK Wizard]

Originally posted by Kriz_4
The hunt of this type is not population control, it doesn't happen very regulary. Fox population is stable due to the fact there is so little habitat for them, there is no where for this population to expand to.

I suggest the mirrors guy also spends time here in the UK. It is a compact densly populated country. There are almost no places for "a brit to hunt if he wants too". Its mainly private land.

Quite so -

Plus the fox population can still be 'controlled' by other arguably humane methods, such as a very well placed shot. The ban relates to the hunting of foxes with hounds.

(Of course it will mean that you don't have to worry about your own cats, ducks and chickens when the hunt goes past).

The hounds are bred to run as a pack, so 'finding homes' may not be really too much of an option, (plus it would take a bit of work) I dare say most of them will end up being destroyed. This is pretty much the end they face anyway either following injuries from the hunt or simply no longer useful ... 11 Hounds were killed by a train in one incident.

Oh, and what about the number of horses that die each year too.

So, what happens - you drive a creature to death, either ripped apart by dogs, or even if it escapes the pack - the effort may cost it it's life as it's been so critically damaged internally by the sheer effort of finding an escape.
And the other costs - well so what really, if in so doing you kill a few of your own hounds, maybe you'll cause a traffic accident as they spill out onto a road, maybe you'll break a horses leg too, even your own horse - and for what really?

Is it to perform a useful service perhaps, another dangerous rural killer safely dispatched ... so your battery hens can sleep safely at night (assuming they can actually relax enough to even begin to sleep, not of course that they would even know what a fox was), or maybe so your fattening lambs no longer need to show any interest in that small skinny looking fox slink up the hedge looking for voles, mice and berries as their own short life slips past.

Or a quaint country tradition maybe ?

Or just preserve a way of life that's already so long past being relevant that it even looks dead.

It's facile to claim it's useful (some studies suggest as little as 0.5% of the fox population is killed like this, so it's not really about vermin control is it: references to follow) - it's been banned, and not before time.

As this is such and emotive issue, please note how I actually opened the post before flaming.

Interesting to read that it was pro-hunt supporters that 'stormed' parliment, not anti-hunt protesters, with whom one would normally associate with such behaviour.

news.bbc.co.uk...

The "loss of livelihood" argument doesn't really hold up to scrutiny either - I don't recall the Countryside Alliance adding their voices over the recent requirement for 100k+ staff cuts in the civil service, nor over previous mine closures, the loss of the steel industry, shipbuilding ...

Does the use of the Parliament Act does really undermine democracy here - or does [it in this case[ reinforce the will of the lower elected house, over the mostly unelected / hereditary upper house ?

Just one other thing -

Originally posted by HeyThatsMyBike
I've just got back from Parliament Square in central London where the large pro-hunting demonstration is being held.

What a fantastic group really standing up for what they believe. They'll be damned if they're going to let some sof pinko lefties take away their liberty. This is such a non-issue it is unbelievable. The only people that hunting affects are the bleeding heart ultra stout animal rights people, and who the hell really cares about them?

You say "the only people hunting affects are the bleeding heart ultra stout animal rights people" - that being the case - why were the Countryside Alliance there then if hunting only affects "the bleeding heart [...] etc ...", and thus by implication, no one else?

Sorry about the long post ...


[edit on 15-9-2004 by 0951]

Do I find it to be a ridiculous 'sport'? Yup. But I think its up to the people of Britain to ban it or not. If the majority of those polled in that country feel it should be banned then it should be, period.

But, two thirds of people in this country felt the assault weapons ban should be renewed but it wasn't. So who are we to talk. Apathy and lack of participation in the process will always allow a minority to rule. We truly are gutless, uninvolved losers in this country right now.

[edit on 15-9-2004 by Weller]

What really gets on my nerve is the lack of freedom to do your favourite things in the UK, Fox Hunters should hunt without anyone else poking there nose's in and bugging them, therefore making protests. It's called freedom, to do what you want.

I think other people should mind their own business.

I cant wait until it's banned, it's been banned in Scotland already thankfully, we always seem to put our legislation through quicker.

And on the note that it's been tried for years... there's now the parliment act in place so the House of Lords can be bypassed completely concerning the decision

Hunting with dogs is down right cruel. It's something for the upper class country folk to do while they're not getting EU grants for their farming, tuning up thier land rovers which are payed for by grants, or drinking they're twinings herbal tea with scones whilst discussing how to avoid inheritance tax.

Democracy will win this time