If there was a place to go, would you go?

Reply to post by novuslibertas

Property taxes on land and equipment.

Income taxes on anything gained.

Since you can't pay property taxes with bushels of grain or pelts you have to earn a cash income to pay.

Subsidies, unless you're a huge conglomerate, only go so far. Assuming you can qualify in the first place. Which is doubtful.

Speaking as a US resident.


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reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Thank you for your insight. That is a huge set back for a starting community in the states.

Do you think it's possible to get around some of these taxes on religious grounds? That would probably work in Western Europe.

Do you have any clue on how they generate income? I'm looking on the web as well. Just curious on your vision.

reply to post by novuslibertas


Religious exemption is next to impossible to get. By maintaining a list of "acceptable" religions the government is stomping all over the 1st Amendment but that's a different thread.

To produce an income the Amish will sell products. Most popularly their furniture. Many will work under the employment of a shady builder who takes advantage of them not unlike how contractors and builders take advantage of illegal aliens.

The Amish have also resorted to less ethical and less lawful ways to generate an income. Most notoriously they will operate puppy "mills."

Any income generation subjects you to income taxation. Which lowers your total on hand income. Which means you have to generate even more income to cover the property taxation and the income taxation. Then there's permitting, regulations and inspections to pay for and comply with depending on the good you wish to sell. Not to mention insurance to cover liability for your products.

Prohibition breeds despair. Taxes are essentially a prohibition on basic human rights. To comply with this prohibition the Amish permit themselves to be abused and risk the rest of their freedoms by operating income generating enterprises on the outskirts of legality.

A puppy mill will at worst end in a fine. Not paying your taxes will have the government death squad at your door shouting "ON THE GROUND!!!" swinging the muzzles of their rifles to and fro.

I've spent the better part of the last 30 years trying to find some way, any way to get out of the absolute trap that is taxation. As a consequence I've learned an awful lot about the Amish and the way they live. The way they really live. Not the fantasy of Amish life that is used to push literature and tourism. Any measure you take will end in one of two ways: incarceration or death. Violently enforced taxation is the ultimate evil.

Sounds like you're talking about a modern day hippy commune. These were tried during 60's/70's and mostly had temporary success and ultimately fell apart. I believe most people who took part in these experiments were drawn back to the modern world because as humans we desire to move forward, not backward...crazies being the exception.

So, no - I wouldn't go. I'd rather be a part of improving the "here and now" as well as the future.

IMO The best bet for someone to get out of the "rat race" would be to move on the outskirts to a small town far away from any city and do your thing.

walked away from all that years ago.. fully self sufficient and no plans to start any form of community... prefer my solitude and privacy far from so-called "civilisation" ...

"What would your skill set be? What would your reason to go be? Would you bring your family?
Would you be dedicated to the group or just your situation?"

Yes I would go there, not even a second doubt. I am a jack of all trades. Right now I am employed in the Juvenile Justice sector and train folks in crisis response/intervention. Pretty confident that is a desirable mindset. The reason I would go is to escape from the non-warranted demands my govt puts on me and my paycheck. Why wouldn't I bring my family. My situation at first till I was established, then I am building my neighbors house with him.

I like your site, I will explore it further later on (after work) you are further along than I am.

Right now, my job will allow me to transplant anywhere in my state (as long as I have reliable phone, internet, and electricity) I am working on getting into a smaller mortgage near where I plan on buying property (or some larger houses for roughly the same price I pay now).

The house I am in now has gone up in value by at least 10k and I'm 7k in (at 2 and 1/2 years in which isn't too shabby, with the amount Ive added to the principle we are at about the 5 year mark equivalent)

So when I transplant and sell this place, Ill have a safety net of about a years worth of income depending on how much I get for it (won't sell this year). Of course, when I do sell, it may be more or less so who knows. I do know that I am keeping it as far below the taxed value as possible. Push comes to shove, any lender would be willing to mortgage it at that value. That is, if I don't move to a fema camp involuntarily (which it would, if they kept me alive)

I have learned a lot about several of the different types of energy (solar, wind, biomass and microhydro) unless I'm fortunate enough to get a property with year round water, I don't think Ill be doing that. And where I want to go solar wouldn't be feasible (unless I got an insane deal) If I got some used 100+ watt for like $50, I would add that in. But I am mainly thinking of bio-mass (diesel from the oil from fast food places and other restaurants) getting diesel and supplies for soap and not having any waste is something I wouldn't mind (along with a diesel generator).

I read a book from the library that I really liked about composting (so much that I have no qualms buying it new at retail).
The Rodale Book of Composting: Easy Methods for Every Gardener
ISBN-10: 0878579915
ISBN-13: 978-0878579914

reply to post by RedParrotHead


I kind of understand what you mean. Some would consider a hippy commune a forward movement. I personally wouldn't.
Either way a hippy commune is definitely not my definition of the dream I have in mind.

Imagine a place where life is still of great quality because of the commune's self sustainability. It has electricity, hot water, lot's of processed foods. All made within the community. It's modern life but without an alarm clock next to your bed.

Aside from the materialistic comfort there is also psychological comfort.
A place respectively far into nature or other environment where the common Joe usually does not come.
The people that either founded this commune or joined it on a later occasion apply a set of mindsets that make it possible to have different religions side by side if they desire so.
Have respect for everyone, listen to everyone and be patient. Certain civil mindsets that should be applied throughout the rest of your life to keep harmony and friendship. If this is a trouble for a person then his or her place would not be in the commune.

Contribute to the community as a sign of dedication and contribution; saying: "You see, these are my crops but my crops are your crops as your wood is my wood."

Most of that sounds pretty hippy'ish probably. But I think it's a rapid move forward if we share and live without a currency and guide our lifes with civil mindsets that we deep in our souls all respect.

Also In my dream I see decisions to be made with logic, reasoning and in a true democratic sense; everybody is allowed to have their say.
In my dream teenage pregnancy nor drugs do not exist, it's a mere example, and difference with a hippy commune. If you made it into the commune you behold enough intellect to make your own logical, reasonable judgements and therefore you shouldn't even want those things.

There is a place....

And "yes", I'm going.....

Room, for more, if'n your interested....

reply to post by BlastedCaddy


I find it quite satisfying how many 'peasants' agree (in a non-offensive way). We long for a life that we lost, add some modern aspects to it and it's perfect. Imagine returning to the 1800's, living your life, your humble life, and yet also having penicillin and electricity.

I hope you find what you are looking for.

reply to post by freetree64


I'm very curious what your plan is. Do you mind sharing it with us?

Originally posted by novuslibertas


Do you think it's possible to get around some of these taxes on religious grounds? That would probably work in Western Europe.

Do you have any clue on how they generate income? I'm looking on the web as well. Just curious on your vision.

Here in UK the cost of decent land is still high - more so if it comes attached to a house. There ARE various communities but the reality is some people still need to bring in a wage. It's practically impossible to be totally self reliant and very very hard work.
The future in the UK is in communities with a mixed skillset. You could possibly get rid of money alltogether by working together, sharing and bartering. But under our current system - with taxes etc - this would be very difficult.

reply to post by novuslibertas


No plan, be watchful, and believe....

Simplicity.....

We are sort of moving that way, although it is with family. We bought some property in the country which was an old hunt club. We're renovating the lodge and plan to move there this spring. We're doing solar panels (as well as wind power) and a beautiful aquaponics garden in an attached greenhouse. My inlaws will be building a small house on one of the acres as well. Our best friends are playing with the idea of joining us - we joke about having our "commune" (without the total sharing thing, if you get my meaning!) My husband currently has a good salary, but his job is very stressful and is slowly killing him (imo). We want to get out of the rat race, and slow down a bit. It may take a while to get as self-sufficient as we want, but have at least started.

reply to post by starchild10


Hi there neighbor,

I sometimes wonder if the reason for having tax is not generating income for the government but suppressing people who want to leave the system?

Who are they to decide for me whether I want their system or not.

reply to post by Lolliek


That's cool. I like it when people are past the drawing board, they are inspiring!

The lodge sounds cool, does it have water, electricity and gas connection?

I hope you will find what you seek, you probably will.

reply to post by novuslibertas


Is your question about a place

on earth

or

off planet?

Are you talking about a different country or a rural area distant from significant population centers?

reply to post by BO XIAN


On earth, this physical life. In my eyes countries are mere human illusions and perfect examples of what might and power does to humans, how easily our souls are corrupted.

Borders do not exist. We do not have a claim on this womb planet if you ask me.

In my honest opinion we should be able to settle just about anywhere on this floating rock without human effects but death by incompetence.

However, this is not reality, therefore I created this thread to see what people's visions are on this topic; how they think it could be realized and how it looks in their fantasies if it was realized in our reality.

reply to post by novuslibertas


I'm in the American SW until The Lord moves me elsewhere . . . more or less regardless.

Had I the means and provision . . . I'd consider moving to Tasmania . . . Argentina, Chile . . . back in the hinterlands.

With a small group of people with great skill-sets and like minded values.

However, realistically, folks have to do what they can, by God's grace, help and leading do. Lots of things are no longer possible.

Lots of things are likely too late or close to too late.

imho, the most critical thing . . . is to walk close to God, saved and covered by The Blood of The Lamb and practiced at hearing His Voice of guidance and comfort.

Beyond that . . . doing good to all one can do good to . . . and fight against the darkening spreading evils of the world system.