WSJ economist : Ron Paul economic plan would create the biggest job growth in history

Doesn't take an economist, or a rocket scientist to realize what a 0% Income Tax would do for the economy! Unless of course you support a socialist system.

People will SPEND!...and a lot more than that b.s. stimulus check they got.
As well as what it would do for people like me who make a decent salary and struggle to put their kids through school and save for a decent retirement!

Originally posted by Diablos

Originally posted by blamethegreysOr maybe his corporate tax policies will encourage industry to keep or return skilled labor jobs to the US...

This is the same argument parroted by ignorant people who have never ran a business in America nor do they understand how businesses function. Outsourcing has been going on since the early 90's, and no job that has been outsourced has returned, while many corporations have been given very generous tax breaks. Of course, the corporations are not to blame, it is the fools who believe one solution will solve all problems.

Let's say you run a manufacturing corporation and have been outsourcing entire departments for years. To encourage you to bring back the jobs, the government has extended a very generous tax break but with no strings attached, which allow you to free up 100K in funds. Now, would you hire 2 American engineers who would demand a reasonable 50K and benefits for their services while complying with labor and health regulations over 100 Indian engineers on the same budget that do not demand any benefits nor must they comply to health and labor regulations in America, thus giving you a much greater bottom line? Only a true idiot would choose the former, and if he isn't the owner of the company, such actions won't have him at the company for too long.

I've seen this happen. I was laid off at a call center job so the company could outsource to the Philippines. Funny thing is, those of us who got laid off had the last laugh as the company lost tons of money and was pretty much gone a year and a half later as the customer service was so poor and the language barrier so huge that customers fled from the ship like it was sinking faster than the Titanic. And it did.

Competition levels the playing field.

American's have been saying they want change for as long as I can remember and when it finally comes along half of them are scared to accept it. Change is the only constant, there is always a winter and there is always a summer. With drastic changes like Ron Paul's there is bound to be some discomfort before the dust settles.

However, let's see some of the good 'ol home of the brave come out of America, where they stand up and face the challenges presented them, rather than fall for the same old same old which has literally driven the country into the ground.

Like they say, you can lead a horse to water...

My favorite part was where Diablos has is argument destroyed by facts and he ignored it and stuck to his script. It's good to see that whoever is paying him to get on here and spread lies is getting their monies worth.

A 0% income tax would be HUGE for helping the economy. People would spend. People would save. Business would be profitable, and I don't mean big business I mean mom and pop businesses. I shop local whenever I can and I always will. Wal-Mart and the like are cancers that see their employees as numbers on paper, not people. I should be able to walk into a business abd speak with the owner, or at least be able to speak to them on the phone in a timely manner.

HAHA Goldman's 'candidate on the right' is the best solution.

Okay Diablo.

So you want a guy that does this:
Records Shielded by Romney in Massachusetts

You can break down the issues using opinionated economic theory, convoluted logic and stale rhetoric, and that may lead you to vote Romney. But if you simplify it, there is only one choice here. Pick the ONE candidate who has integrity.

Originally posted by Diablos

Originally posted by eLPresidente
See, the great thing about competition is, YOU MUST COMPETE.

I'm sorry, but this is why your cult leader will never ever get the nomination nor will he have the slightest chance at winning the election. The vast majority of Americans DO NOT WANT TO COMPETE WITH FOREIGN SCABS WHO DRIVE WAGES DOWN TO SLAVE LEVEL.

Originally posted by eLPresidenteSo here is my challenge:
Name Ron Paul's economic policy or policies that would cost America MILLIONS of jobs (government jobs excluded) and slash their salary 50-100k. Since you made the claim with detailed numbers, I'm expecting you to have THE PROOF & REFERENCES to back it up. Don't conveniently ignore this challenge because I WILL bring it up.

Ron Paul is against protectionism, tariffs, and approves of free-trade. These are core tenets of the libertarian ideology. He also approves of H1-B program and would love to increase more of these foreigners flooding our countries and industries and driving wages down.

What more proof do you want? Ron Paul is the only Republican candidate to say he is not against job outsourcing, which is evident to any middle class conservative American that this guy supports outsourcing and global competition.

Do you understand simple logic? When you force Americans to compete with foreigners for jobs in their own country, while other developed countries protect jobs of their country, you allow for DEMAND to decrease significantly while supply jumps up, which in turn drives wages down to the point where it becomes SLAVE LABOR.

Originally posted by eLPresidenteYou dumped that thread about Ron Paul not being a corporate honcho so he isn't fit to be president and never came back to respond in it. Here you are again, in another thread, preaching the same broken message that the president needs to be none other than Mitt Romney (Mr. Goldman Sachs) and talking down Ron Paul's economic policies and how he would destroy the American economy without naming ONE policy that would cause it.

Mitt Romney actually has private sector experience and understands the intricacies of job protection. He is also against outsourcing and would like to bring American jobs back home, unlike Ron Paul who is for GLOBAL FREE TRADE.


How does it feel that Mitt Romney will most probably be the nominee and Ron Paul has about 0.000001% chance of winning both the nomination and the election? If Ron Paul is the best Republican candidate, then why do millions of die hard conservatives hate the man and believe he will be deadly to our country's future?

So you were not able to back up your claims that millions of jobs would be outsourced and average salaries would be cut down 50-100k with Ron Paul's economic policies. Why did you even return to this thread? I even told you I would bring it up if you weren't able to prove it. Which you OBVIOUSLY didn't.

It is quite funny how people like to label Ron Paul a isolationist then we hear people complaining about him being against tariffs and for free trade. It is the same thing. I already know where your foreign policy stance is at so if I ever see you complain about or even inferring Ron Paul being an isolationist, I will call you out and quote your spiel on Ron Paul and protectionism and tariffs. Google Isolationist since you don't even know the real definition.

You cannot FORCE somebody NOT to outsource, especially in America. You try that, I dare you and watch all of the American companies FLOOD out of this country. Even if you could pull it off and find a few American companies that would stay and play by all of your rules. They will be strangled out of their profits and go into the red until they cannot survive any longer. Not even China can stop companies from outsourcing, what makes you think it is possible in America?

For somebody that claims to know so much about economics and running successful corporations, you sure don't know anything.


By the way, die hard conservatives love Ron Paul for his economic policy.... nobody dares to touch him on it because they all know he is right and agree with him. Diehard conservatives don't like his foreign policy because they're brainwashed with war propaganda, like you are. Anybody that buys into the Iranian drama is automatically discredited, it means you don't do homework and watch too much MSM.

I can't tell you how many businessmen and investors I meet that would LOVE to have a lower tax rate and eventually GROW their businesses.


A bit sad that some don't understand the simple concept of growth and competition.




Diablos blew up when I mentioned competition...lol.

I am so SICK of hearing people say that they won't vote for Ron Paul because he is not electable or he won't win.

People aren't even considering him - but they will say I really like him but he won't win.
I guess the media trick is working.

I found an interview from 2007 with his wife in which she says she could not get a ticket to a debate because the audience was stacked by Fox News.

Fox news is on tv right now explaining why it won't matter that Newt wanted an open marriage or his affairs or anything because it happened several years back. BUT Ron Paul's newsletters he didn't even write were what? 3 times longer ago than that? And yet they matter.

One thing that is really happening to me this campaign season is that I am starting to think there's already a zombie invasion. People are the bots and the media is controlling them....unless it is someone intellectual - then they are suspect and crazy.

I guess Judge's media spots are like pressure relief valves - something sane so the whole thing doesn't look so artificial. Most don't watch him though. I admit I don't watch him unless one of you guys posts a video.

Are people really that dumbed down though or have they simply been robbed of their self confidence? Or is it the same?

Originally posted by eLPresidente
I can't tell you how many businessmen and investors I meet that would LOVE to have a lower tax rate and eventually GROW their businesses.

A bit sad that some don't understand the simple concept of growth and competition.

Diablos blew up when I mentioned competition...lol.

Hey Prez, this is the kid who's in school but thinks he knows it all?

Company I work for thrived with the lower tax rate. What are we doing now? Barely keeping our heads above water! How did we pull it off? We outsourced about 40% of the work. Where? To a friggin prison!
Yep, forget paying a temp agency who were hiring illegals willing to work at half the wage of a regular worker. They cracked down on that. Now we pay 20% to felons!

Like I told that kid in another thread, wait until you get to the real world before you open your mouth!

Anyway, like I said in my earlier post, just imagine what would happen with a 0% income tax...

People would buy more new cars...auto industry grows...used cars sell for less...hey, I can afford that Challenger I wanted now and buy a used fuel efficient car to get to work!

Now I can get both my kids laptops for school and the iPhone they've been bothering me for.

I can take that vacation to Peru now and see Nazca and Machu-Picchu!

Did I mention the jobs it would create just from people buying more?

reply to post by Diablos

We aren't against a free market in OUR COUNTRY, we are against a free market IN THE WORLD and GLOBALIZATION.

The funny thing is, you probably do not have the slightest idea of how to run a successful corporation nor have a deep understanding of how a corporation functions.

There is no such thing as different kinds of free markets. There is only the free market. A free market is without any regulation, so that massive competition may flourish, and the currency used is based upon some actual wealth where all can agree upon its value. That is the free market, and that market does not exist in the United States.

Heavily regulated markets, even slightly regulated markets, are not free markets.

Your entire world view is based upon job creation. That view of job creations is wholly based upon an industrial age that has come and gone for the United States. If you want a job that is founded in industrialization, then you are going to have a much better shot at getting that job in a third world nation actively industrializing.

The greatest problem with this limited view of an industrial age notion of labor is that too much of that labor is either all ready, quickly becoming, or will inevitably become obsolete as automation continues to develop.

Further, your limited world view of "jobs" is so remarkably sycophantic towards corporatism it is embarrassing to read. Embarrassed for you. It's as if you are pole dancing naked, completely unaware of the fact that you are in a strip club filled with straight men and you are this short, fat, balding, middle aged man moving your eyebrows up and down in some sultry come hither way while awkwardly clinging to that pole and hoping your tentative moves will please your shocked and not at all amused audience.

Corporations are chartered entities. They exist by permission. By that very nature, a corporation has nothing at all to do with free market principles. Under free market principles, doctors, lawyers, and Indian Chiefs all have the opportunity to sell their goods or services without any government interference. None need permission from the state to function as doctors, lawyers, and Indian Chiefs. No licensing schemes are required and those incompetent doctors, lawyers, and Indian Chiefs will discover soon enough that the market has no patience for incompetence, while the competent professionals flourish and prosper. Patients, people in need of legal advice, and Indian Braves, because they have the power of choice, and because competition is massive, can find the best professional to do business with at the best possible price.

A corporation, on the other hand, must acquiesce to the whimsical and arbitrary nature of legislatures. To pretend that corporations are entities or products of a free market is to pretend your pole dancing is impressive.

I believe that corporations can operate side by side with unregulated, non-licensed, free market professionals, but as long as professionals surrender their own sovereignty and acquiesce to regulatory schemes that have no lawful jurisdiction over them, the free market will look a lot like your pole dancing.

Your fawning of corporatism is due to your limited world view of "jobs". You seem to understand that a small business can not sustain itself if it is subject to certain wage and other labor laws. You insist in framing this whole issue in terms of corporations and jobs because you don't want to be a cook for a diner that is a sole proprietorship, nor do you want to be a clerk for a single private lawyer, or any other job that would involve a small business model. What you mean by "job" is that vaunted corporate position where the pay is good, the benefits include retirement funds, paid vacations, sick leave, and health care.

Your total lack of regard for the struggles and travails of small business is clear.

Originally posted by CoolStoryManLower taxes make people more profitable,
this line of reasoning is laughable


I work for a small business, we get killed with taxes, we would be able to pay our workers more, hire more people AND be more profitable, if some of these silly taxes were cut or even gone for good.

Infact, the very idea that you have to pay the federal freakin' government to work is a JOKE!

It seems you don't even understand the argument here nor are you addressing the points raised.

I have no problem reducing corporate taxes to 0% for all corporations, abolishing minimum wage, health and labor regulations and just about any other regulation. What I oppose is opening our borders to foreigners who will drive wages down across all professions to the point educated middle class professionals can't even afford to pay their mortgage any more. We need to bring back tariffs. Globalization is not free trade, it is a form of corporatist fascism. The same globalization your cult leader Ron Paul strongly supports. Globalization has been destroying small businesses that would have been successful before the 90's, as the larger multinational companies can sell products for pennies compared to what an American company that manufactures and makes them here at home has to due to increased overhead costs.


What we need is another Ronald Reagan. A candidate who is for business and job creation and would bring back tariffs and jobs to America, not some pacifist senile old man who loves to yell "Austrian economics" or quote from Ayn Rand.

Originally posted by eLPresidente
I can't tell you how many businessmen and investors I meet that would LOVE to have a lower tax rate and eventually GROW their businesses.

Again, I have nothing wrong with slashing corporate taxes, health and labor regulation or ANY OTHER FORM OF REGULATION, and even minimum wage.

Originally posted by eLPresidenteDiablos blew up when I mentioned competition...lol.

I am for local competition.What I, and millions of other middle class conservatives oppose is GLOBAL COMPETITION. We want to close our borders and bring back the days of pro-protecionism to America. There is no such thing as "competing" with a third world wasteland as the foreign scabs who flood our markets would be willing to work for less than a dollar a day.

Originally posted by maddog99As well as what it would do for people like me who make a decent salary and struggle to put their kids through school and save for a decent retirement!

edit on 1/19/2012 by maddog99 because: (no reason given)

I agree with you that all forms of taxation that doesn't go to our military or law enforcement should be abolished.

However, you are so naive. Ron Paul will flood our country millions of more immigrants who will drive the wages down across all professions, and then we'll see how enthusiastic you would be about this pacifist senile old man when you can't even pay your bills due to some third world parasite gladly taking your job and willing to work for pennies.

Originally posted by Diablos

Originally posted by maddog99As well as what it would do for people like me who make a decent salary and struggle to put their kids through school and save for a decent retirement!

edit on 1/19/2012 by maddog99 because: (no reason given)

I agree with you that all forms of taxation that doesn't go to our military or law enforcement should be abolished.

However, you are so naive. Ron Paul will flood our country millions of more immigrants who will drive the wages down across all professions, and then we'll see how enthusiastic you would be about this pacifist senile old man when you can't even pay your bills due to some third world parasite gladly taking your job and willing to work for pennies.

If Ron Paul became our next President , he has stated emphatically that
he will Enforce our Present Immigration Laws which as of now , are Not being Enforced by the Obama Administration . Those well Defined Laws Alone would Prevent what you imagine would happen and even Reduce the Numbers of Illegal Immigrants presently in the Country through Deportation .

Originally posted by randomname
if you actually vote against 0% income tax, then you should have your head examined.

can you imagine the burden that will be lifted if you kept 100% of your paycheck. even those extra 300-400 every 2 weeks will make an enormous difference to families.

it's surreal that a politician actually want's to see his fellow citizens prosper.

edit on 19-1-2012 by randomname because: (no reason given)

Some of these people have been brainwashed by the system, to think taxes are good

You know I am a very good judge of character. And Ron Paul has the attributes to become one of our greatest presidents of all time. And I feel that we will have many years of peace and prosperity with him at the helm.

There is a time for everything. For a while, the US actually did need to be mighier than usual. And even though I never cared for Bush junior , I wanted him to win. Why? Because I knew he would do his best to prevent terrorism.

Now, that overprotective phase in the US is over. And we had a interim president (Obama). Obama has some really bad ideas, and the public is very afraid of what he may do next. Fortunate for us, one term prevented him from doing some really bad damage. Not a chance he would ever be re-elected...

The US citizens are especially ready for major change. Or should I say going back to our consitutional roots. Don't you think it is about time the president actully represents the sentiments of this countries citizens? This is our chance, so don't waste it. Elect Ron paul. The US needs him now, more than ever!

"Thank you for calling customer service in India for your American product. Please press 1 for English and hold while I learn how to use my system."

This is what we deal with every day...

Originally posted by mus8472
My favorite part was where Diablos has is argument destroyed by facts and he ignored it and stuck to his script. It's good to see that whoever is paying him to get on here and spread lies is getting their monies worth.

A 0% income tax would be HUGE for helping the economy. People would spend. People would save. Business would be profitable, and I don't mean big business I mean mom and pop businesses. I shop local whenever I can and I always will. Wal-Mart and the like are cancers that see their employees as numbers on paper, not people. I should be able to walk into a business abd speak with the owner, or at least be able to speak to them on the phone in a timely manner.

I just want to be able to walk into a store and talk to someone who speaks English... Is THAT too much to ask?