Christians; Religious folks, answer me this..

There has been a lot of talk lately about Ron Paul being booed over his statement on "The Golden Rule." For those of you who are unaware (which I expect is very few), the Golden Rule is a main pillar in Christianity and even throughout history. This "rule" is apparently so old that scholars cannot attribute it to any one religion or affiliation.

"Do unto others as you would want done unto you."

A very simple rule that if followed, would result in peace (Theoretically).
So tell me how any modern day religious person (be it Muslim, Christian, etc.) can disobey this rule, be pro-war, and still call themselves Gods people?

Especially since the Republican party likes to associate themselves with conservative and usually religious views, how can the people see that booing peace and cheering for bloodshed is.....well it's about as far from being a man/woman of God as I can imagine. Has religion become so corrupted and twisted over the centuries that we no longer have an idea of right and wrong? good or evil?

-and people today, (the average uneducated Joe-Schmo) go around saying things like their religion hates Gays while committing adultery themselves. (Because remember, sex before marriage is a no-no). It seems like there are all these hypocrisies and misconceptions in the Bible and other documents and people will STILL follow it as if it were really the word of GOD. The follow it to the extent that they would beat a gay man to death for example, even though killing is quite obviously a sin. In my eyes people tend to not want to research or find out real answers, so they join a big club that tells them what to do, and what to think, and what to say (just like the military) so they can feel part of something. I personally learned long ago that the God I believe in is no Catholic God, or Allah. My God is within all of us and IS all of us.....but thats a subject for another thread. Excuse my rambling I just felt the need to share my thoughts and see yours as well.


-Forgive me if this is in the wrong place but I am a new poster, long time lurker and I figured since this isn't a source and fact based thread I should just post it here. Mods move if necessary.

I would think it best that this thread be moved so as to allow a full-fledged discussion on the matter...

reply to post by Lapislazuli


I think we just take things for granted, expecting grace to always save our butts, when in truth, we arnt even following the letters of the words we supposedly believe in.

It's a pick and choose world, today. Maybe this is what is meant by everyone falling away from God in "the end".

It's really tough to find someone that claims to believe in something while finding them actually practicing what they preach. Though, I know there are people like this. We condem them as Ultra Orthadox. and we hate them for it? We must.. These are the most $#!*-on people in existance today - no matter what faith they follow. The stronger you believe and the closer you are to that belief, the more people will take a dump on you, abuse you and find a reason to shame you and call you a lier.

What can I say.. The world is crap.. So are majority of the people on it. If not.. I feel we wouldnt be this far into the crapper, today. Just going with the obvious here.

I found This Link on the Golden Rule that offers up some pretty decent information, and why it relates and works with the whole world and not just specific religions.


Enjoy!

I don't know what RP said, about the golden rule, that got boos.

I no longer call myself Christian, but do consider myself to be spiritual. That being said, many consider USA to be a Christian country, but when it comes to defense and social spending, USA is the farthest thing from Christian.

I remember Obama being asked if he used the Bible in his legislation decisions. He caught a lot of flack for saying something like, "The Military can't just 'turn the other cheek', which scripture would you have me use?"

reply to post by Lapislazuli


Hey there, Lapis, I've seen you on the boards...

and since you're a long-time lurker and already somewhat seasoned poster and obviously very brave, well...put on your armor with this one, and WELCOME to ATS!
PS I agree with you.

Why do people always assume that Christians or religious people are perfect and peaceful?

This is obviously not the case.

We are flawed individuals just like you, with the same emotions you have – we are not some alien force who has no understanding or concept of war, hate, lust, etc.

We are called as Christians (I can’t speak for others because I am not of their religion) to put aside those things and become better people.

In our walk of faith, religion, etc., we sometimes lose focus of our responsibilities and go astray – it’s human nature. If we were capable of being perfect there would have been no need for Christ to come to us and be sacrificed. (if that’s what you believe)

We are flawed, sinful, and vile creatures at heart – and should never be looked at as perfect. We are sinners.

Although we MUST try to keep our focus on the “prize,” we sometimes lose sight of it.

That’s just the truth of it.

reply to post by Lapislazuli


I am a Christian and I am a huge supporter of Ron Paul and his view on foreign policy. Ron is the most biblical attributed candidate.



The only one's who won't vote for Ron Paul are the sensationalists Christian Zionists who promote war and racism to full-fill there prophecy. They support Israel at any cost and will not stop until world war 3 has caused Armageddon. This is why I also no longer believe in the rapture, because the rapture is a Zionistic idea and is unbiblical.

"Do unto others as you would want done unto you." Is the true message of Jesus but unfortunately some people take Luke 22:36 "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." out of context and use it as an excuse to promote war. Christian Zionists have a habit of taking verses out of context to use for there agenda.

You really want to know what the "Golden Rule" Is ??

I will tell you what it is NOT ... " do unto others as you wish others do unto you ".

Or should I say " Treat other people the way You want to be Treated " ( Insert "treated" with "respect" or "fill in the blank here" ).

Seems kinda selfish to me ( I treat others like I want to be treated ) . How exactly do I Want to be Treated ?? Open up that can of Worms ATS .. I want to be treated with XYZ treatment ..should I go forth and treat Peeps the way I Want to be treated ? I don't think that's gonna work now a days ..

Or would you like the Golden Rule to be .. " Treat others the way They want to be treated ".

Well.. now that would cause problems .. even though your treating them the way They want and make them happy .. its kinda in a grey zone there.

Nay I say .. It IS " You Will (do) Unto others what you will (do) Unto others " .. Period.

Its your choice of Everything you do.

You live by Your Rules .. not the Golden Rules.

Yes.. you Should have Wisdom and Education .. Yes you should have Consideration .. Apathy and Empathy. You should have Your Own Life the way You Want to Live it ..

You only get one Chance at this Life IMHO. Make it Fun and Enjoy it ! ( You just might not get a second time around ).

Peace and Love JG.

reply to post by Lapislazuli


I saw this debate and was pretty surprised by this reaction in a state that considers itself Christian. I'm also inclined to support the idea that religion has twisted biblical notions. If any person considers themselves to be a Christian and does not understand the differences between good and evil then that person does not understand their own faith.

When it comes to the hypocrisy of sin. You are right, there are a lot of pots calling the kettle black. The bible does not teach that one sin is greater than another. We are called to hate sin and not the sinner. The idea of the thief saying, "at least I don't kill" comes into play with this idea of calling someone out for their sin while they wallow in their own. You refer to the "Big Club". Christianity, however, tends to be less a club and more a fellowship. If you look at the Catholic religion it does not have a good foundation on which to understand Jesus' teaching in the biblical sense. They are a "Big Club". Cult-like in their practice. ("a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies." -dictionary.com)

To better understand the bible. Despite if you believe it be a holy text or just a book. Even as 'just a book' it's a great historical work. I highly recommend auditing a class on the subject at your local university or junior college. A modern philosopher I heard speak not too long ago said that anyone who believes a religion to be 'silly' does not understand said-religion. This is true. For example, the philosophies and doctrine of Hinduism onto itself would take a lifetime of philosophical study to understand in its entirety.

If you believe that God is all of us, then you're getting into something pantheistic in belief. OR God is all, all is one. This is not a new idea, you'll find this in Buddhism. New Age also likes this idea. I want to recommend to you this book. "Jesus Among Other Gods" by Dr. Ravi Zacharias. It's a good read, agree with it or not. This is a very educated and wonderful man that authors this book.

Thank you all for the responses. I'm glad I can truly count on ATS for some good points in any topic..and undoubtedly my next thread won't be in introductions

reply to post by Lapislazuli




reply to post by arpgme 


First off Hell is not for enternity! People have misunderstood that in the bible. 

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 

"The wages of sin is death" that is the final punishment of the non elect,death. God is merciful,it is only the cruelness of man that such a creature would want a fellow human to suffer such great agony for ever. 

Remember the rule God set up in the bible when paul was beaten. A person could only receive 40 stripes save one. So 39 stripes(because 40 stripes is almost enough to kill someone) Throughout the bible you will find that when a person suffers it is only for a short while. The two thief's at the cross both suffered for a short while then the one on the left entered death he is non existence no suffering in a place called hell. (In fact the word for hell actually means grave). 

The thief on the right entered into the greatest joy a human can receive he entered into paradise. 


Luk 23:40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 
Luke 23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 
Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 
Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him Verily I say unto thee , Today shalt thou be with me in paradise. 



But anyways to the point 

You said that baby could be saved because the can't accept Jesus . Well first off John the baptist was saved in the womb,before he was even conceived. Secondly accepting Jesus doesn't mean anything this is a false teaching. No one accepts Jesus. Jesus accepts you. 

Tts 3:Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 

Everyone is evil there is not one person better than the other I'm just as wicked as Hitler or as Martin Luther king we are all sinners. 

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 

There are many people in the bible who believed on Jesus but were not saved for example judas iscariot is one,Saul believed in God but wasn't saved. There was a great multitude following Jesus that turned away because they loved the things of this world! 

There is a verse that says that says something like this " you believe then you do well. The devils also believe and tremble! So just because you believe doesn't mean your saved. 

So yes hitler COULD have been saved or Could have been unsaved. Only God knows the heart. And to many people this would make them mad that hitler might be saved, but people must remember ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALLEN SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD! 

You are almost right about the last thing you wrote we are not saved by works but by grace that is the Grace of God. But we can't accept Jesus Jesus accepts us. Accepting Jesus is a work. 

Sorry for the long post but I hope this answers some or all of your questions/comments. 

Remember God is a merciful God we always tend to look at all the bad things that happen and say "Gods not merciful) but it's our sin that has caused all the bad in this world. Just look at all the Mercies of God. Start with every single heartbeat. For his mercies are more in number than the sand that is by the seashore or the stars in the heavens!

reply to post by Lapislazuli


Biblical Scripture states that there is a time for everything under the sun --- even a time for war and a time for peace. I believe that in all things there is a balance. Biblical Scripture is full of such examples. In one instance in Scripture it states that God is Love and yet in another it states that he is a God of War and Vengence. In all things both physical and spiritual I believe there is a balance. To light there is darkness, to life, death. See my point? Hope I provided a different viewpoint.

reply to post by Lapislazuli

So tell me how any modern day religious person (be it Muslim, Christian, etc.) can disobey this rule, be pro-war, and still call themselves Gods people?

You can't. Jesus said if you live by the sword you shall die by the sword and this concept applies to everything i.e. If you live by violence you shall die by violence, if you live you live by hatred you shall perish by hatred etc.

What Jesus was teaching us is that actions have consequences. Good actions bear good "fruits" while evil actions bear evil fruits. It is not Christ's way to warmonger, but to show man how to forgive and that the kindest word can mend a broken heart, while the harshest words can destroy a broken heart or a better example is the kindest words can heal and the harshest (evil) words can kill.

Jesus said there would be many coming in his name and we would know them by their fruits or "actions" and this is evident in what is in their hearts for what is in their harts shall be made manifest in their works (actions). If Jesus is in their hearts than their actions shall be guided by his will.

I have a confession to make. While i do not hate, i have been holding on to anger of late and i have been called on for it and to those i have offended i do apologize. Following Christ isnt an easy task, if it were everyone would be doing it. I stand accused and repent. In my pride and my blindness i thought i was acting according to him, only to find out i have been a fool.

I don't know if this is off topic, but I think it relates anyway. Mark Twain's The War Prayer. It is really short, only takes like a minute to read, and I am pretty sure you can find it online. When I get the chance I will look it up and post a link to it, but if you don't want to wait for me just google it. Maybe it doesn't relate though, I am too tired to remember, because I have not slept in three days, and now I seem to be rambling and have not said anything really at all.
ok found it. hope my link works.
warprayer.org...
anyway I think the story acts as a good illustration of the "christians" booing at the golden rule. Like I said though I am tired and may be misunderstanding