The Circle Cycle Engine . . . Soooo cool.

I must admit that I saw this because of an ad in popular science (Feb2012) on page78.

First up, kudos to the team who designed this little marvel. This has just made my own top ten list of cool engineering though personally I think it is impractical(IMHO it has too many parts and could be a potential IED ( ) if the gears wear too much).

The Circle Cycle Engine Vids

Circle Cycle Engine home page

Has anyone seen these engines working in an application? e.g. Truck, car, boat, genset ....

EDIT - Links fixed ....Thx CarDreamer

reply to post by OccamAssassin


thank you for fixing the links, very interesting redesign of the internal combustion engine, would love to see real specs on output such as torque and bhp as well as other important specs. i was highly impressed.
former mechanical professional (diesel machinery and power transfer )

reply to post by OccamAssassin


That's actually very creative. If the gears are made right, they won't wear out too fast. Now that we have synthetic oils, they could last forever. I once thought that the best power train for a car would be to put one or two cylinders at each wheel, so that three of the engines could shut down on the highway and increase mpg. This design makes that idea a lot more practical.

reply to post by OccamAssassin


Strange.

That's the best I can say. And I know engines. For some reason it doesn't look as practical as is claimed on the website.

I would love to see some actual figures on it. I am sure they must have had it on a dyno.
I read through the website and maybe I missed something, but what is used for the ignition?

Also it seams remarkably unbalanced. In the video of it working, yes it is balanced, but ad age, dirt, and time, and I am not so sure it would hold up.

It is innovation, and that is great!

But call me old school, but I hope gasoline engines never die. I love em. I love 4 stroke, 2 stroke, rotary, just awesome awesome symphony of mechanics in motion. Precision. I need nothing more in this world.



EDIT:

I mean come on, you just can't ever replace this:

reply to post by OccamAssassin


Looks like someone altared sp?....somewhat copied the ole mazda rotary engine, but instead of orbital crank shaft made the piston/cylinder orbital.......nice engine, not sure about piston ring to cylinder efficiency, it has to have a "sloppy" fit, "piston totally comes out of cylinder" or a slightly tapered cylinder to make compression...not very practical..IMO..anyone that has ever put a piston in with a ring compressor..will see this right off!
I would like to see wear and longetivity....of the piston/cylinder, the gears should be the last part to wear "fastest" IMO...

Originally posted by OccamAssassin
if the gears wear too much

A very creative idea, but as you say its certainly a worry having those piston parts coming together like that... and a bit of gear wear and your engine kills itself spectacularly.
Also, while they obviously have some direct fuel injection routes within it, its not clear to me how they would feed clear air and dispose of the exhaust. From the model, the engine just gets whatever air is around it at the time, within the crankcase, but thats also where the exhaust is vented to. I think its going to need some extra fan devices or air routing guides. Once those are installed, I think its then way way more complex than an old piston engine which actually works very well in the real world.

reply to post by MoosKept240

I would love to see some actual figures on it. I am sure they must have had it on a dyno.
I read through the website and maybe I missed something, but what is used for the ignition?

I asked exactly the same question......I found it on one of the ver3 images.

There is a spark plug inside the piston and the electrode is in the crown.

reply to post by OccamAssassin


Hmm, so I wonder what the wiring would look like for it, since it is constantly rotating. That would be an issue for reliability, if contacts would wear out on one of those arms, I bet that would be costly, and in the small space of a vehicle quite difficult.

Also with all the moving parts it seems like its very dangerous to be around while running. With a normal engine you have a belt, and a fan. And with newer vehicles most of the fans are electric, instead of the old clutch style metal fan. With this you almost have no clear zone. And if anything, anything disturbs the balancing of that machine, it would be catastrophic failure.

I think more R & D is needed, and of course I am basing this on not that much information. The website seems more of a sales pitch than anything else.

I don't get it? Why move the cylinders? When you can fix the cylinders in the block and just stagger the crankshaft like any multi-cylinder engine available today?; Nice solution to a non-existant problem.

No accomodation for cooling ("water jacket")either

reply to post by Doc Holiday


using ceramics the pistons are lose fit no rings

Originally posted by 46ACE
I don't get it? Why move the cylinders? When you can fix the cylinders in the block and just stagger the crankshaft like any multi-cylinder engine available today?; Nice solution to a non-existant problem.

No accomodation for cooling ("water jacket")either

edit on 16-1-2012 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

pistons clear the chambers completely and thru some uses of ceramics no need of a water cooling system, it is air cooled. this is based on what i read in the OP's links. there isn't further data available that i could find on the site as to actual output specs or actual cylinder/piston life. i have a lot of questions about it myself though i think it is a great idea. it is a much more thermally efficient engine than the standard internal combustion/ crankshaft engine though, although i didn't find specs to back up that claim.

reply to post by alfa1

Also, while they obviously have some direct fuel injection routes within it, its not clear to me how they would feed clear air and dispose of the exhaust. From the model, the engine just gets whatever air is around it at the time, within the crankcase, but thats also where the exhaust is vented to. I think its going to need some extra fan devices or air routing guides. Once those are installed, I think its then way way more complex than an old piston engine which actually works very well in the real world.

By the look of it, it appears to be a blow through type crankcase, a pair of turbochargers(driven by an electric motor) sit on the top and simply pump in more air than the engine requires to breathe.

In comparison with the piston engine, take the V8 four stroke.....it rotates once for every two ignition strokes, while the CC engine completes eight ignition strokes for every one rotation.

There is a distinct advantage to having the engine rev less for more power, but in this case I think that it is wasted due to complexity of the engine.

As stated above....I would also like to see the power, torque, displacement, (this might require a little lateral thought to compare to a traditional four stroke) and most importantly.....power to weight ratio.

In high demand environments where cost isn't an issue (mines, military, etc) these types of engines could have their own niche.....if they can prove to be reliable.

I think it is a great piece of engineering. And having one would be a great conversation piece. But after watching the video I just can't get the thought of a free object hitting it during operation.

Someone throw a wrench into it while it's running and post the result.

Originally posted by 46ACE
I don't get it? Why move the cylinders? When you can fix the cylinders in the block and just stagger the crankshaft like any multi-cylinder engine available today?; Nice solution to a non-existant problem.

No accomodation for cooling ("water jacket")either

edit on 16-1-2012 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

The moving cylinders are throwing their weight in direct opposition to the pistons to balance the engine. This just makes the engine more stable without having to resort to using balance shafts like you find in some four strokes.

Engine cooling is similar to an air cooled two stroke reciprocating engine. The inlet charge cools the engine from the inside carrying the heat away in the exhaust. Its a great system but can have severe shortcomings in extreme temperatures.

I've just watched - for the tenth time - the claimed propane run(third video on the first link in the OP) and for the life of me......I can't hear the starter motor cut out when it initially starts and I can't hear pistons firing.

I was just thinking that it should be making more noise given that the combustion chamber is just venting to the crankcase (which is open in the video). In this scenario, it should sound identical to four stroke engine running without an exhaust manifold......Painfully loud.

I have to wonder why they didn't "rev" the engine?

This is probably a hoax.....*sigh*

To add

No wikipedia page.

Mods....Can someone please move this to the hoax bin.

reply to post by OccamAssassin


I would not be so quick to call HOAX.....it is an altered...Hankle sp? engine, where as one revolution makes more than one fire stroke, much like the old toy Spirograph you could draw on paper with.
www.amazon.com...

Originally posted by OccamAssassin

Originally posted by 46ACE
I don't get it? Why move the cylinders? When you can fix the cylinders in the block and just stagger the crankshaft like any multi-cylinder engine available today?; Nice solution to a non-existant problem.

No accomodation for cooling ("water jacket")either

edit on 16-1-2012 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

The moving cylinders are throwing their weight in direct opposition to the pistons to balance the engine. This just makes the engine more stable without having to resort to using balance shafts like you find in some four strokes.

YOU MEAN LIKE the BMW "BOXER" OPPOSED TWIN Motorcycle power plants in production since the1930's?????The boxer pistons oppositional stroke offsets any piston related vibration??????????
animatedpiston.com...

Any flat opposed "boxer" engine( Porche; subaru) doesthat....way old tech!

Engine cooling is similar to an air cooled two stroke reciprocating engine. The inlet charge cools the engine from the inside carrying the heat away in the exhaust. Its a great system but can have severe shortcomings in extreme temperatures.

Originally posted by Doc Holiday
reply to post by OccamAssassin

 

I would not be so quick to call HOAX.....it is an altered...Hankle sp? engine, where as one revolution makes more than one fire stroke, much like the old toy Spirograph you could draw on paper with.
www.amazon.com...

I think you mean the "wankle" rotary; it used a 3sided rotor turning in a funny shaped cylinder/crankcase. sealing.Each of the three sides formed a combustion chamber of decreasing size as the rotor rotated :