does the bible condemn knowledge,wisdom and philosophy?

Knowledge: (Genesis 2:17) but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it.
Wisdom: (1 corinthians 3:19) for the wisdom of this world is foolishness with god.
Philosophy: (colossians :8) beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy.
My only question would be ,does god want us to love him? My reasoning is as follows:
How can anyone have a maximun love for anything with minimun or no knowledge for what they love?
Just a few thoughts.

A can of worms, you have opened there, my friend.

The simple answer is yes. The Roman Catholic Church has striven to circumvent any education that would put their control in question. They have purchased the artists ie: Micheal Angelo, Da Vince, the scientists ie: Galileo, Copernicus, edited musical events, so as not to excite the devil within, with musical tones, Mozart. They have attempted to corner the market on schools, colleges and medical institutions.

All this so that you don't have to ask any questions that they can't answer.

The bible you quote from has your answer ..All you need to understand about God to love Him is in there ...peace

reply to post by Theophorus


interesting find and conclusion.

it reminds me of another recent thread ~ Stairways To Heaven; The Practical Magic Of Sacred Spaces

my personal response to this is pretty straight forward, the bible was written by human men, in the case of the king james version it was, between 1604 and 1611.

the goal of these men in my mind was not to 'enlighten' us or to bring us closer to god. their goal was to further their power and control over humanity.

this brings me back to the other current thread i mentioned above. one theme in this thread and the link doc in the OP was how christianity adopted, or rather co-opted, themes from paganism and built upon their sacred spaces.

what i think the church set out to do and did a good job of was stealing and then consolidating esoteric knowledge from people in an attempt to gain power through not just the control of knowledge but more importantly knowledge that is empowering.

my humble opinion, take it or leave it.

Hi,my friend.
I think you are asking the right questions,God teaches us through His word and His son that only knowledge is in him,and our human ways are vain.
Look what we did of this gorgeous planet?
Isn't he right that His ways are better than ours,no one has to till the forests and clothe the beasts,for He did this,look at how this beautiful universe and planet is designed,it is a work of a superior mind,a glorious and giving one.
In the beginning there was no death,and in the end it will be restored that way.

Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather you together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Matthew 13:30
He waits to see how much of us will see His wisdom and knowledge and accept it,and he loves us very much.
My advice for you is keep seeking truth,and look in His word,through His son and the people that followed His ways.
Much love,YHWH bless you my friend

reply to post by Theophorus


Explanation: S&F!

Uhmmm?

How can anyone have a maximun love for anything with minimun or no knowledge for what they love?

It is called having FAITH!

Here is why ...

Is Jesus Really "The only begotten son of GOD"? (by OmegaLogos posted on 19-6-2008 @ 07:13 PM) [ATS]

Pastor Jesse Duplantis once said "the Bible does not make sense. It makes faith!" and I agree with him fully on this matter.

Personal Disclosure: I hope that helps!

Well with knowledge we question when we question we learn and discover. Also what kind of creator doesn't want their creation to learn and grow . Or are we all supposed to be feral . However imagine the loss at the collections plate when people learn that religion is a farce. Then again the fear of death will always keep the majority in check .

Knowledge is the only true path to god.
Faith in false gods will get you nowhere.

Peace.

And on another more important role the most obvious sign is that all science today,seems to strive to make it like there is billions of earths and its all random and not very special.
It is not for nothing that label satan means opposer.

Look at this glorious universe,you can see the work of a creative and glorious being,and He reveals Himself to those that want and choose to accept Holy Spirit in their hearts.
It requires understanding but it is so simple a child could comprehend its significance.

I am not a smart man in the ways of man but i am wise in my heavenly Father YHWH


Cheers,David

reply to post by freedomSlave


Explanation: Uhmmm?

Or are we all supposed to be feral?

No ...we are supposed to be obedient!

Personal Disclosure: Uhmmm?

Also what kind of creator doesn't want their creation to learn and grow?

Zeus [wiki]

Zeus blinded the seer Phineus and sent the Harpies to plague him as punishment for revealing the secrets of the gods

Zeus condemned Prometheus to having his liver eaten by a giant eagle for giving the Flames of Olympus to the mortals.

Deucalion [wiki]

In Greek mythology Deucalion (pronounced /djuːˈkeɪliən/; Ancient Greek: Δευκαλίων) was a son of Prometheus; ancient sources name his mother as Clymene, Hesione, or Pronoia. The anger of Zeus was ignited by the hubris of the Pelasgians, and he decided to put an end to the Bronze Age. Lycaon, the king of Arcadia, had sacrificed a boy to Zeus, who was appalled by this savage offering. Zeus loosed a deluge, so that the rivers ran in torrents and the sea flooded the coastal plain, engulfed the foothills with spray, and washed everything clean. Deucalion, with the aid of his father Prometheus, was saved from this deluge by building a chest (literally “chest” like the Bible's “ark,” which means “box”) Like his Biblical equivalent Noah and Mesopotamian counterpart Utnapishtim, he uses his chest to survive the deluge with his wife, Pyrrha.

That is WHO we are dealing with ok!

Originally posted by Theophorus
Knowledge: (Genesis 2:17) but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it.

Just my opinion: Today we call it Good and Bad, instead of Good and Evil. Defining something as one or the other leaves little room for the middle. Not all Black and White. There are Grey areas.

Wisdom: (1 corinthians 3:19) for the wisdom of this world is foolishness with god.

That one I agree with. This is a foolish world filled with vain, foolish people. Solomon said something like: Of the writing of books there is no end and knowledge is much weariness to the soul. Thats the "wisdom of the world". Knowledge is different from wisdom, right?

Philosophy: (colossians :8) beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy.

Philo- meaning "love of", and Sophy- meaning "wisdom". The word Philosophy as used today implies the "study of wisdom" I think? I don't think heaven approves of the study of wisdom. True wisdom comes to us, comes thru us. You can learn from that, but you can't study it. And there is nothing wrong with loving the Wisdom of God. Don't know if I am saying that right. Wisdom is not about words, it is a gift from the Divine. You know it when you see it. The gift to make the right decision at the right moment is true wisdom. That comes from outside yourself.

reply to post by Theophorus


Through those quotes, it is safe to say that the bible condemns the search for knowledge, quests for truth and the application of logic.

Philosophy has always been dangerous to established beliefs. One needs only to look at the case of Socrates, where he was persecuted for corrupting the youth, or, more realistically, teaching them how to think for themselves. This was long before Christianity even.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by Theophorus

 

Through those quotes, it is safe to say that the bible condemns the search for knowledge, quests for truth and the application of logic.

Philosophy has always been dangerous to established beliefs. One needs only to look at the case of Socrates, where he was persecuted for corrupting the youth, or, more realistically, teaching them how to think for themselves. This was long before Christianity even.

Many iconic symbols throughout history were treated as such as well. Galileo is another example.

I believe some of these men were also Gnostic. Im not sure on that, still doing my research.

But the pursuit of knowledge and oneness with god makes more sense than making god exterior and worshiping like slaves. God wants us to be the best that we can be.

The gods of mainstream religion don't have a good track record. I know i personally do not want to pray to a god of destruction, death, and terror. Praying does nothing. Learning and applying that knowledge does.

reply to post by AzureSky


Agreed.

It would be interesting to know how this fear of knowledge is considered rational, because there seems to be no proof of it in all of history.

Originally posted by Theophorus
Knowledge: (Genesis 2:17) but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it.
Wisdom: (1 corinthians 3:19) for the wisdom of this world is foolishness with god.
Philosophy: (colossians :8) beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy.
My only question would be ,does god want us to love him? My reasoning is as follows:
How can anyone have a maximun love for anything with minimun or no knowledge for what they love?
Just a few thoughts.

Definition of KNOWLEDGE by merriam webster

1 obsolete : cognizance
2 a (1) : the fact or condition of knowing something with familiarity gained through experience or association (2) : acquaintance with or understanding of a science, art, or technique
b (1) : the fact or condition of being aware of something (2) : the range of one's information or understanding
c : the circumstance or condition of apprehending truth or fact through reasoning : cognition
d : the fact or condition of having information or of being learned
3 archaic : sexual intercourse
4 a : the sum of what is known : the body of truth, information, and principles acquired by humankind
b archaic : a branch of learning

Definition of WISDOM

1 a : accumulated philosophic or scientific learning : knowledge
b : ability to discern inner qualities and relationships : insight
c : good sense : judgment
d : generally accepted belief
2 a wise attitude, belief, or course of action
3 the teachings of the ancient wise men

what is the sole purpose of having wisdom/knowledge?
it is to describe the world around us and try to best explain our surroundings and how to deal with them.... wisdom/knowledge of this world is nothing compared to the infinite wisdom of God.

when we try to attribute the knowledge and wisdom of flesh to spiritual matters, such as scripture interpretation, that is foolishness with God. we are spiritual beings manifested in a body; when we try to solve problems with knowledge of the flesh, problems arise.

For example: when you try and read the bible from a perspective that is not humbled before God, many false interpretations can arise....

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

God put these rules in to establish His people, the Jews, and to separate them from the false idol worshipers, or pagans. It's easy to see these verses misinterpreted to fit one's agenda, such as the Salem Witch Trials, Crusades, and the Pharisees in Jesus Christ's time.

sorry for the above rant lol, but to answer your question:

My only question would be ,does god want us to love him? My reasoning is as follows:
How can anyone have a maximun love for anything with minimun or no knowledge for what they love?

of course God wants us to love Him! BUT, He will not force us to love Him, this is where free will comes in to play. this life is a test, or a journey, your soul is manifested in a body.... there's two paths on this journey, one path is of this world, the other narrow path is of God, through Christ. will you absorb the knowledge that the world gives you, or will you have wisdom of the Lord Jesus Christ?

1 Corinthians 2:16: For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

if you say that you love God, God will test your love through trials... and those trials are messages that God is trying to tell, its not to punish or condemn you, it's to strengthen you and Him trying to tell you how to truly love Him, because He truly loves you. God's love is different and BETTER than the world's definition of love..

I do think god wants us to love him/her/the devine/higher ideals. But it not something he/she requires. If you enjoy life and is nice to the people and the universe then god will be happy. God do not need to be loved or worshiped, he/she need to love and teach/help ous evolve so that we can experiance harmony, unity with everything and true love. The tree of knowledge I always think of the paradox of knowing. When you know right and wrong you cannot do what you feel like but have to take moral consideration into account. The more you understand of the complexity of the world the more you understand how little you know. The more careful you sometimes become to be sure you do not do things that have an effect you do not want. Intelligence is both a gift and a curse.

And I do also belive some things in the bible is more in the way of enlightment than a tool for enlightment. It should be read with a very critical mind that ignores all worship towards ego and what can not be logical or devine in nature. From my point of view the bible as a whole is a faulty description of the devine. That do not mean that parts of it is not devine. The problem is sorting out the gems from the manure. Namaste

reply to post by apushforenlightment

The tree of knowledge I always think of the paradox of knowing. When you know right and wrong you cannot do what you feel like but have to take moral consideration into account. The more you understand of the complexity of the world the more you understand how little you know. The more careful you sometimes become to be sure you do not do things that have an effect you do not want. Intelligence is both a gift and a curse.

The knowledge was that the garden was just that, a garden, where within its walls, everything was nice, but outside, not so much, and The Lord only could make that one, limited area nice, and not even that, since there was that tree and there was that serpent, which apparently The Lord could do nothing about.

Depends. Knowledge can make a man proud. Knowledge can blind a man. Thinking himself to be wise, he becomes a fool.

reply to post by apushforenlightment


Without being too critical, it's "divine."

This is a good take on the eating of the tree. But I always found it quite contradictory that god would give adam and eve a vessel to disobey him, condemn it as "evil," when in fact they are supposedly innocent and have no such knowledge of "good and evil." You do see how backwards this is right?

You will find this backwards logic throughout the entire bible. What baffles me is all those who acknowledge that it is full of holes, but still want to glorify it, and believe in the exact god that is written within it. When I first broke away from my blind faith, I still had the tendency to imagine a god, but it was no longer a He or a Lord, it was just some...thing, that MIGHT have created everything (but who knows?). After a while I realized there was no point in worrying about it, because the entire idea of enlightenment is just another way of saying knowledge/wisdom, etc.

Anyway, I'm probably in the wrong section of this site. It's more for my own reflection, seeing how I might have ended up thinking, and trying to see a pattern in all of this irrational faith and where it takes people. It's truly baffling sometimes.

reply to post by UnderStation

. . . the entire idea of enlightenment is just another way of saying knowledge/wisdom, etc.

I don't think that is the goal of religion, or at least biblical religion.
That is kind of the point, that we should be good rather than excessively knowledgeable, as in to the point that we think we know better than God.
The goal is to be good people and no envious of others.