In Pictures Iraqi fighters Destroy US tank

Originally posted by Facefirst

Originally posted by Aelita

Originally posted by Facefirst

No. Because after we left, another occupying power came in and took over. No power vacuum=no civil war.

If we leave Iraq, there will be a civil war.

Hello, what do you call the current events?

It's the civil war already!

So you are saying we should just pack up and leave right now. Let the whole thing disintigrate into absolute anarchy?

Some experts say appoint Al-Sistani head of state and leave. He has so much authority already, respect of people etc etc. There would be no anarchy, and order would prevail.

This is not going to happen though because this gentleman doesn't want american bases on the Iraqi soil either.

Originally posted by zcheng
Was there a bloodier civil [sic] after US retreat from Vietnam?

There was no US retreat from Vietnam. There was a withdrawal of combat troops based on those like you in the US who turned our own country into a war zone, rioting in the streets and on US campuses until the government did what the cowards and traitors wanted. The blood of those innocents who died in the genocide that followed is on the hands of those who supported the cause of the communists in Vietnam. That would include the Senator from Massachusetts, Hanoi John Kerry.

Originally posted by Aelita

Originally posted by Facefirst

Originally posted by Aelita

Originally posted by Facefirst

No. Because after we left, another occupying power came in and took over. No power vacuum=no civil war.

If we leave Iraq, there will be a civil war.

Hello, what do you call the current events?

It's the civil war already!

So you are saying we should just pack up and leave right now. Let the whole thing disintigrate into absolute anarchy?

There would be no anarchy, and order would prevail.

And you know that for certain 100%? Not that simple.

I highly doubt it. When you have people like Al-Sadr fighting for their piece of the pie, there will be a civil war. Some people want a democracy while others want a theocracy. There is going to be fighting regardless.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpottThe blood of those innocents who died in the genocide that followed is on the hands of those who supported the cause of the communists in Vietnam. That would include the Senator from Massachusetts, Hanoi John Kerry.

The blood of the innocents in Vietnam and Cambodia is largely on those who supported the war. Millions of lives could have been saved if the US government had not intervened militarily and politically.

The US should have not opposed the elections to reunite North and South Vietnam that were called for in the Geneva Accords in 1954 and they should not have proposed that Ngo Dinh Diem be the new ruler of South Vietnam.
They should not have supported him in his crooked election which he won with 98.2% of the vote.

This could have turned out much differently if someone different had been in control of South Vietnma and had the elections for a united Vietnam that were called for had been held.

The fight against communism has killed millions.


[edit on 13-9-2004 by AceOfBase]

Originally posted by Facefirst
Zcheng,
Tibet was not a Chinese province until China invaded and took over after WWII. China INVADED Tibet many times. Killed thousand of Tibetans. The last time was in 1950. Since then, there have been human rights violations that are known world wide. Some liken it to genocide. Between 1959 to 1977, the Chinese Goverment destroyed almost all of Tibet's Monastaries. Hmmm. I bet your Chinese State Television is letting everyone know about that? At least I have a choice here and can turn on whatever news station I want.

You obviously lack the history of Tibet as a whole. You also need to look at the relationship between Tibet local government and Central government of at least Qing Dynasty, which dates back to 400 years ago. Until you are more familiar with the history, we can have a better discusion.


In terms of Monastaries, why the largest one in Lasha is still standing? Please provide a list of temples intentionally destroyed, at least those that are significant. Otherwise, I will just claim you raped a million.

It is the US that needs a mirror, which point fingers to other nations everyday.

I wish I had said that! btw Impressive display of ribbons, where did you see combat.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by zcheng
Was there a bloodier civil [sic] after US retreat from Vietnam?

There was no US retreat from Vietnam. There was a withdrawal of combat troops based on those like you in the US who turned our own country into a war zone, rioting in the streets and on US campuses until the government did what the cowards and traitors wanted. The blood of those innocents who died in the genocide that followed is on the hands of those who supported the cause of the communists in Vietnam. That would include the Senator from Massachusetts, Hanoi John Kerry.

Tibet was an independant state untill the population was yolked by the Chicom. If you want to study history study the Marines vs. Chicoms at Chosin!

Admit you are a Chicom disinorfmation agent. You do that when not disposing of medical waste at the college you work for.

Originally posted by zcheng

Originally posted by Facefirst
Zcheng,
Tibet was not a Chinese province until China invaded and took over after WWII. China INVADED Tibet many times. Killed thousand of Tibetans. The last time was in 1950. Since then, there have been human rights violations that are known world wide. Some liken it to genocide. Between 1959 to 1977, the Chinese Goverment destroyed almost all of Tibet's Monastaries. Hmmm. I bet your Chinese State Television is letting everyone know about that? At least I have a choice here and can turn on whatever news station I want.

You obviously lack the history of Tibet as a whole. You also need to look at the relationship between Tibet local government and Central government of at least Qing Dynasty, which dates back to 400 years ago. Until you are more familiar with the history, we can have a better discusion.


In terms of Monastaries, why the largest one in Lasha is still standing? Please provide a list of temples intentionally destroyed, at least those that are significant. Otherwise, I will just claim you raped a million.

It is the US that needs a mirror, which point fingers to other nations everyday.

Originally posted by zcheng

Originally posted by Facefirst
Zcheng,
Tibet was not a Chinese province until China invaded and took over after WWII. China INVADED Tibet many times. Killed thousand of Tibetans. The last time was in 1950. Since then, there have been human rights violations that are known world wide. Some liken it to genocide. Between 1959 to 1977, the Chinese Goverment destroyed almost all of Tibet's Monastaries. Hmmm. I bet your Chinese State Television is letting everyone know about that? At least I have a choice here and can turn on whatever news station I want.

You obviously lack the history of Tibet as a whole. You also need to look at the relationship between Tibet local government and Central government of at least Qing Dynasty, which dates back to 400 years ago. Until you are more familiar with the history, we can have a better discusion.


In terms of Monastaries, why the largest one in Lasha is still standing? Please provide a list of temples intentionally destroyed, at least those that are significant. Otherwise, I will just claim you raped a million.

It is the US that needs a mirror, which point fingers to other nations everyday.

Here:
Tibet
(Scroll down to see that only a fraction of Tibet's monastaries have survived Chinese rule.

Some more:
some more history

Tibet was a sovereign nation until China invaded.

I will never say the US is perfect, but make sure your own laundry is clean first.



[edit on 13-9-2004 by Facefirst]

Originally posted by Facefirst
Here:
Tibet
(Scroll down to see that only a fraction of Tibet's monastaries have survived Chinese rule.

A great article. It is loss of invaluable artifacts and history. The same happened across China during the days of simple and pure communism. Chinese people are very pious to our Ancestors. Usually there was a book detailing the lineage of ancenstors. Almost all family will have such a book. Such book contains lots of history and information. Almost all are destroyed. So were temples destroyed across China. Tibetan people suffered the same as any other Chinese people. Those were crazy times before 1979, and China should never repeat such self-destruction of culture and history. I regret all those losses.

From this article,

The Chinese Government initially proclaimed that while complete consolidation of its annexation of Tibet was underway, no restrictions would be imposed on the practice of religion. Their formal pledge to protect and respect Tibet's religious tradition was set forth even in the "17-Point Agreement" of 1951. This "Agreement" explicitly stated that the traditional status, functions and powers of the Dalai Lama would not be altered and that "the policy of freedom of religious beliefs laid down in the Common Programme of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference will be protected."

If Tibet was independent as you claimed, why they would agree on "17-Point Agreement" in 1951? I suggest you read what were the 17 points.

Some more:
some more history
Tibet was a sovereign nation until China invaded.

I will never say the US is perfect, but make sure your own laundry is clean first.

This link is total bull#ss and propaganda.

Thanks anyway for the first article.

Originally posted by zcheng

Originally posted by Facefirst
Here:
Tibet
(Scroll down to see that only a fraction of Tibet's monastaries have survived Chinese rule.

A great article. It is loss of invaluable artifacts and history. The same happened across China during the days of simple and pure communism. Chinese people are very pious to our Ancestors. Usually there was a book detailing the lineage of ancenstors. Almost all family will have such a book. Such book contains lots of history and information. Almost all are destroyed. So were temples destroyed across China. Tibetan people suffered the same as any other Chinese people. Those were crazy times before 1979, and China should never repeat such self-destruction of culture and history. I regret all those losses.

From this article,

The Chinese Government initially proclaimed that while complete consolidation of its annexation of Tibet was underway, no restrictions would be imposed on the practice of religion. Their formal pledge to protect and respect Tibet's religious tradition was set forth even in the "17-Point Agreement" of 1951. This "Agreement" explicitly stated that the traditional status, functions and powers of the Dalai Lama would not be altered and that "the policy of freedom of religious beliefs laid down in the Common Programme of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference will be protected."

If Tibet was independent as you claimed, why they would agree on "17-Point Agreement" in 1951? I suggest you read what were the 17 points.

Some more:
some more history
Tibet was a sovereign nation until China invaded.

I will never say the US is perfect, but make sure your own laundry is clean first.

This link is total bull#ss and propaganda.

Thanks anyway for the first article.

No problem.

Prior to 1951, Tibet was it's own nation.

The Tibetans signed the article because they had no choice. Either sign or else. Did you think Mao was going to take "No" for an answer? Not even on his best day. What other choice did the Tibetans have? Any law on paper is worthless unless it is enforced. The destroyed monastaries and missing Tibetan treasures certainly are proof of that.

I think China is going to be a great democracy one day, but as most Goverments, they have as much blood on their hands as the US.

When quoting a post there is no need to quote the whole post including other quotes. It can be confusing and frustrating for readers.

If you wish to quote another post please delete all the text between the quote and /quote tags.. Leaving only the part you wish to address!

Is that asking too much?

Save confusion, Save space, Deny Ignorance!

Originally posted by Facefirst
No problem.
Prior to 1951, Tibet was it's own nation.

The Tibetans signed the article because they had no choice. Either sign or else. Did you think Mao was going to take "No" for an answer? Not even on his best day. What other choice did the Tibetans have? Any law on paper is worthless unless it is enforced. The destroyed monastaries and missing Tibetan treasures certainly are proof of that.

If Tibetan thought Tibet was their own nation, why not fight at 1951. China is certainly much more stronger than 1951. It just not make any sense.

The fact of the matter is: at that time, Tibet was under local government rule. There was civil wars in China, there were many warlords and factions. Tibet then might not have participated in the civil war, but it was only a provincial local government. When central government had established the authority, all local government had to accept governance of central government. Tibet is such a case. Taiwan is another example, and is a renegade province of China.

Originally posted by zcheng

If Tibetan thought Tibet was their own nation, why not fight at 1951. China is certainly much more stronger than 1951. It just not make any sense.

Tibet did not have an army. They had no choice. Either agree peacefully or by force. There have been rebellions and fighting, but those were put down by force.

Originally posted by zcheng The fact of the matter is: at that time, Tibet was under local government rule. There was civil wars in China, there were many warlords and factions. Tibet then might not have participated in the civil war, but it was only a provincial local government. When central government had established the authority, all local government had to accept governance of central government. Tibet is such a case. Taiwan is another example, and is a renegade province of China.

Tibet was self ruled, mostly by the Lamas. Mao went in and took over whether the Tibetans liked it or not.

Awe, China so mean, take over poor Tibet, they so much worse than USA, kill all Native Americans. Now Native Americans suffer alcoholism, poverty, and bad self esteem. Pine Ridge looks like you drive through Third World country. Let's not focus on how the USA screwed the natives, focus on what's happening on the other side of the world with THOSE guys screwing the natives. Tibet is so New Age and cool anyway, Indians just go 'How!'

Hypocrites.

Originally posted by taibunsuu
Awe, China so mean, take over poor Tibet, they so much worse than USA, kill all Native Americans. Now Native Americans suffer alcoholism, poverty, and bad self esteem. Pine Ridge looks like you drive through Third World country. Let's not focus on how the USA screwed the natives, focus on what's happening on the other side of the world with THOSE guys screwing the natives. Tibet is so New Age and cool anyway, Indians just go 'How!'

Hypocrites.

Grow up. If you do not have anything to contribute, then get out.

If you actually read the earlier threads leading up to this, then maybe you would see that this turn was born out of hipocracy.

And you don't think the Tibetans or other oppressed people suffer alcoholism and low self-esteem? Geez..... I am going to go hug a tree and new age crystal now.....

Get a grip.




[edit on 14-9-2004 by Facefirst]

"Grow up. If you do not have anything to contribute, then get out."

I find it hard to understand why US is 'allowed' to do the things that some people in US accuse of other countires doing. Also, if Iraqis manage to destroy an US-army vehicle, it is a victory for the RESISTANCE and it is very justified for them to be happy because US is currently occupying a sovereign country without ANY valid justification,do you still remember the reason for the war, it was WMD's and they were ABSOLUTELY SURE that Saddam had them.

Originally posted by Samiralfey
"Grow up. If you do not have anything to contribute, then get out."

I find it hard to understand why US is 'allowed' to do the things that some people in US accuse of other countires doing. Also, if Iraqis manage to destroy an US-army vehicle, it is a victory for the RESISTANCE and it is very justified for them to be happy because US is currently occupying a sovereign country without ANY valid justification,do you still remember the reason for the war, it was WMD's and they were ABSOLUTELY SURE that Saddam had them.

Ok, go back and read the previous posts. Either you have not, or you do not understand.
The reason I brought up Tibet was because someone from China was describing the US military with words "atrocity." I'll be damned if someone whose Govt's history is one of the most nefarious around is going to damn the US military.

And if you ACTUALLY READ THE PREVIOUS POSTS, you would have read that I was OPPOSED to goining into Iraq.

Don't assume anything.