My understanding of angels and demons

So I wrote a short story a few days back and I have been meditating on it for the last few days. When I reread it a few times I saw symbolism in it that had never occurred to me before.

I realized that what I was really writing about was finding god. In the story I write of how some mysterious force chased me and it felt like Satan was after my soul. What it really was was me trying to escape and avoid responsibility for the bad things I had done. I think that is what demons are.....all the negative things that a person does, they torment us, they drag us down into hell....it is our sins eating away at our consciousness.

At the end of my story I was guided back home by the same force, but this time it was comforting and safe. I felt secure and happy and I looked at the stars in the sky and felt like angels were looking down on me,I was protected by that same force.....

It reminded me of this

" In Jacob's Ladder, Louis, the main character's friend, quotes Eckhart: "You know what he [Eckhart] said? The only thing that burns in Hell is the part of you that won't let go of your life; your memories, your attachments. They burn 'em all away. But they're not punishing you, he said. They're freeing your soul. ... If you're frightened of dying and holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the Earth".[19][citation needed]
(Wikipedia)

I Did not die a physical death, but my soul was so consumed with negativity I felt like I was in hell and afterwards I felt free, whereas before I was so consumed by demons....all the negative things I had done in my life, all the pain I had created, all the mistakes I had made, I could no longer ignore them or escape from them....I faced them and myself and I let it all go, they were burned out of me and finally took responsibility for my wrongdoings...my sins....and it was like a reset button got pushed and I was "reborn" and my soul was freed of the burden and shame and guilt. That night I felt clean in a spiritual sense.

Even though I had this experience in a non religious way, I think that I finally understand what the Christians are teaching when they speak of Jesus dying for our sins so humanity could be washed clean. Jesus is a symbol of hitting the "reset button" and when people speak of being "born again" that is what I experienced just without the aid of a pastor or a church to help me.

I understand now the symbolism the church uses to explain things. I wonder if anyone here on ATS has had an experience like this without the help of organized religion?

I think that is a very philosophical view of angels and demons. If you're the non-religious type, then that works.

However, if you do subscribe to any of the Abrahamic faiths, then that wouldn't be correct.

According to those faiths, angels and demons are created creatures in the same respect as humans. They are not like God in the same way humans are though, as they were not created in his image.

There is some debate whether demons are the fallen angels or if they were created independently, depending on brand of faith. Google Jinns.

Anyway, thanks for the post and the reminder that Jacob's Ladder is an awesome creepy movie.

Originally posted by Mijamija

 

I realized that what I was really writing about was finding god. In the story I write of how some mysterious force chased me and it felt like Satan was after my soul. What it really was was me trying to escape and avoid responsibility for the bad things I had done.

Or... "god" was chasing you. The "hounds of heaven" as it were can seem scary to us when we refuse to admit we're wrong. In that story where Saul is confronted on the road and the light felt like pins to his eyes and he was "blinded"?

" In Jacob's Ladder, Louis, the main character's friend, quotes Eckhart: "You know what he [Eckhart] said? The only thing that burns in Hell is the part of you that won't let go of your life; your memories, your attachments. They burn 'em all away. But they're not punishing you, he said. They're freeing your soul. ... If you're frightened of dying and holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the Earth".[19][citation needed]
(Wikipedia)

Beautifully put. Thanks for bringing that.

I Did not die a physical death, but my soul was so consumed with negativity I felt like I was in hell and afterwards I felt free, whereas before I was so consumed by demons....all the negative things I had done in my life, all the pain I had created, all the mistakes I had made, I could no longer ignore them or escape from them....I faced them and myself and I let it all go, they were burned out of me and finally took responsibility for my wrongdoings...my sins....and it was like a reset button got pushed and I was "reborn" and my soul was freed of the burden and shame and guilt. That night I felt clean in a spiritual sense.

You got it and relate it well. Others should read this and take heed. This is a true repentance, or whatever you want to call it.

Even though I had this experience in a non religious way... ...when people speak of being "born again" that is what I experienced just without the aid of a pastor or a church to help me.

The real kind... the spiritual kind. Not about man made religion, but about your personal experience with a spiritual rebirth. Not from religion or people but from the spirit. That's how you know it was REAL and not contrived or asserted.

I wonder if anyone here on ATS has had an experience like this without the help of organized religion?

Yah, couple of times for different reasons. Just like you describe. I saw it in your words because the same thing happened to me. Churchianity is just a club like any other filled with pretenders and meetings and ritual and dues. You were shown the real thing outside of that paradigm. A lot of genuine soul searching people seek out the church to get that same gift of "salvation" and the church holds that they are the place to go, but really, it's not so. They don't heal or cure anything, just assert that they do. And people "believe" it until they wake up. Good thread. Despite all the worlds distractions, here we see a little truth.

reply to post by WickettheRabbit


Thanks for taking the time to read my post. I agree that if a person is a believer in abrahamic religions then they do believe in actual beings "demons" and "angels"

But I think it is much more terrifying to think that we are the demons.....whenever we put out negative energy, hatefulness, pain or violence into the world. It hits much closer to home.

It is also much more spiritually fulfilling for me to think that when I do good works, when I help others, show empathy, compassion, kindness and forgiveness to others that I am putting forth positive energy.

For me, I do not need to believe in actual beings that do these things, that are removed from me.

I take the responsibility that it is up to ME to create a better world, and not put that responsibility on any 'beings' .

I am not putting down those people that do believe in these beings, but I just have a hard time thinking there are actual beings....I guess I would feel different if I ever saw a demon or an angel.....but I have seen evil people who are consumed with hate, and I have seen angelic people who are overwhelmingly kind, patient and forgiving. And I have see many people in between.

reply to post by intrptr


You said you have had a similar experience a couple of times, would you be willing to go into a bit more detail? If it is too personal, then I understand. I think "finding god" or however you wish to name it, is a very personal experience and although I do think it can occur within a organized religious setting that all too often it does not.

I know many people who seek out this experience or perhaps transformation to use a more accurate word.....but they do not find it within the four walls of a church. Some do, but often the people that seek this out go to the church to ease a guilty conscious without having to take responsibility. They say they feel bad and seek forgiveness, but it is self serving and not sincere....so they walk out of the church and repeat the same bad behavior and know come Sunday they will be forgiven.

And people talk about Sunday baptists in this regard, they point the finger and call them hypocrites. The preacher who beats his wife on Saturdays and preaches gods word on Sunday. These are not true Christians in my mind.

reply to post by Mijamija

You said you have had a similar experience a couple of times, would you be willing to go into a bit more detail?

Hesitantly...K. I was a reckless punk when I was growing up. Brazen and unmindful of others. I had a "muscle car" and used to race mountain roads. Talk about an era of paradigm, the late 60's and 70's were it. Every high school kids dream was to get a fast car and plow the open road, scaring old ladies and little dogs.

The wreck was horrendous, totally my fault and someone died. The anguish and soul searching I went thru for the next two weeks was like what you describe; being chased by the hounds of "hell" (or heaven), depending on your outlook. I was in my bed one night crying out my soul begging for a "sign" of some sort to help me understand and deal with the nagging of my conscience about it and my general bent in life. Sort of reaching out as it were with every fiber of my being?

Suddenly a slow sort of brightness came into the room and settled everywhere. I can't call it a glow, just a sort of "brighter-ness" coupled with the most pleasant full bodied hug I have ever experienced. Something I can only describe as an "entity" of some sort was in the room with me and permeating my whole being, sort of "cleansing me" as it were to the depths of my soul. I "heard" a few words spoken softly into my ear and this is the weirdest corniest part. The "voice" said "I AM" and then something about not being afraid and take heart and you are well loved. I can't put into words cause it wasn't spoken words really (except the I AM part). I felt completely at peace like I never had before and became convinced over time that that was a big delivering moment for me. I began to slowly change my way of thinking and behaving towards others and the world around me. That took a long time. I couldn't say if I responded or was given a little help along the way. Probably a bit of both.

Decades later I still remember that experience warmly and will always base a lot of my beliefs about the world in which we live, and our purpose here on what I learned from it. It was real, it was spiritual, and very so much positive.

Okay, so I cried. I do that when something touches me in a profound way. I understand why you would be hesitant, that is very personal in nature. I can completely understand how that would affect you on such a deep level. I know that kind of pain and remorse, it is unbearable. You can't look at yourself, you can't live with yourself, you hate yourself, it is like being ripped into thousands of pieces. I am so happy that you are better now and that you understand where I am comming from. In all fairness since I asked you to share your experience, you can know mine if you wish. Here is my story:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Do you ever wonder how your life would be if you had not had that experience?

reply to post by Mijamija

I wonder if anyone here on ATS has had an experience like this without the help of organized religion?

Seems to me a bit of a funny question to ask in the religion section of the forum but maybe you didn't and your thread got moved here, that happens.
I had an experience of relief from a similar situation of being weighed down by negative thoughts as a result of a life failure as in a marriage that had about zero chance of success, with a lot of bad thought producing experiences through the collapse of it.
My relief came through an interaction between myself and a monkish priest intent on healing me, so in this miracle, I did not go through a thought process where I somehow consciously resolved all these issues, they just all went away.

reply to post by jmdewey60


I posted this in the theology section because of the "angels and demons" concept....I thought about putting it in the metaphysical forum, but wasn't sure if that was where it belonged either.

I think it is interesting you said a monkish priest helped you, are you referring to a Buddhist monk or a catholic one? Or another type altogether?

I think it is entirely possible that people have this experience with the help of a religion. I am sure it is happening all the time in churches, synagogues, temples and circles across the world...

But I am wondering if it is happening without the aid of organized religion and if so, does it happen very often....

The path or method one uses to find this realization does not matter to me one way or the other, I think they both lead to the same end.....but I wonder on which path it happens more frequently on....the religious route or the spiritual one?

reply to post by Mijamija

I am sure it is happening all the time in . . .

I somehow doubt it.
I think it helps to be with someone god-like who in their presence believe in God because you are looking at the promised thing in the reality of this person, so in this experience, it transcends religious affiliation where that becomes meaningless.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Well, for me personally I did not have anyone present, I was alone. But I think having someone present might help some people, although, i do not think it is a necessary requirement.

Was your priest a western priest or an eastern one? I have been around catholic priests but never had a chance to visit with a Buddhist one.

reply to post by Mijamija


Just a question are you, or were you having thoughts of deep spiritual nature that you could not quite grasp?

reply to post by Mijamija
I'll give a little visual aid for what this person looked like. This is supposed to be of Saint Francis of Assisi. There are a lot of versions but this one here demonstrates how I could have felt like I was with the saint himself, instead of someone of that order.

This guy was living in Mexico and someone brought him up for this meeting and he showed up with literally only the clothes on his back. He had been living in a little earthen type dwelling of crude adobe and an adobe bed to sleep on, in an otherwise empty room.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by Mijamija

 

Just a question are you, or were you having thoughts of deep spiritual nature that you could not quite grasp?

I did not have any spiritual thoughts when this experience occurred. It is hard to describe.....but it was more like a knowing....I just knew there was something larger, something higher, something greater than me. It was not a fleeting emotion either. It stayed with me....it never left me. I have this in me, whenever I get scared or nervous I remind myself of this knowing and it helps me calm down.

The experience was hard for me to grasp once I really tried to understand it. It took me years to process it, I think because I was not raised in a religious family I had a hard time pin pointing the nature of the experience.

In the moment it happened I really was not in a position to think about it in a spiritual context. It just happened.....it came to me. I moment I accepted I was totally lost was the moment I was found....You could say god found me, I guess.

reply to post by jmdewey60


I have heard of saint francis of Assisi , my brother used to speak of him quite often. Sadly I did not pay much attention to him.

So, did you have an experience where even though you met a simple Mexican priest, you felt as though you were speaking to saint Francis himself?

I hope I am not misunderstanding....I find this very compelling and am very grateful that you have shared this information with me.

reply to post by Mijamija


Just one more question. Did you have a desire to stop doing the things that you felt were keeping you away from God and an urge to be more loving?

reply to post by Mijamija

He wasn't Mexican, he was living there and working to put up buildings for the church, there, if I understood correctly, where he was helping people out while creating facilities to better serve them. He was a normal sort of American and not simple as far as how his mind operated, just simple as far as worldly possessions and comforts go. He was leading a retreat in a place that was in season used as a summer camp, and he was instructing us in spirituality, and while doing that, was also doing some practical healing. The experience was this person applying a bit of a focus towards me in an unobtrusive sort of way and where there was never a direct conversation between us in regards to my needing to be healed but it was like he already knew it and was directing us to pray in a specific way to sort of draw into focus in our own minds what we needed to be healed of.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by Mijamija

 

Just one more question. Did you have a desire to stop doing the things that you felt were keeping you away from God and an urge to be more loving?

I 100 million percent had an urge to be more loving.....It was more than an urge.....I BECAME more loving. It was instantaneous. A total absolute complete love. It was something more than a fleeting emotion, it filled up every cell of my body. I saw life on a completely different level after this experience occurred.

Things I would have never noticed before, I noticed. Things I would have never considered before I suddenly considered and I became humble, I stopped judging others so harshly, I stopped being so self serving, I quit feeding my ego all the time, I began to put myself in others shoes more, I began to be more patient and tolerant and I stopped blaming others for my mistakes. In the past I felt like others had to earn my respect.....after my experience I respected everyone as my equal because I understood every human is worthy of basic respect.

So many things changed...they did not change all at once, but one thing changed immediately....I knew I was loved, I was blessed with life. Life is love....just the fact I am here breathing means I am loved. God wants me here, or else I'd be dead.

As far as me having a desire to stop doing the things that kept me from god, I just simply quit doing a lot of negative things. Not all, but many...most I'd say. I was committed to living the best life I possibly could. I had a purpose to be the best human I could be and to try my best to be good to others, even those who had wronged me. I no longer held any ill will towards people in my past that had done me wrong. It was liberating to let go of all the baggage I had been carrying.

I did this all out of love. Once I knew love, so many good things flowed from that, the desire to do bad things faded. Being good felt so much healthier to me than living my old selfish angry life. I am still not a perfect person, my emotions get the better of me sometimes, I am still flawed in many ways, but compared to how I used to be....my life has improved drastically.

reply to post by jmdewey60


If you do not mind me asking, you wrote of being healed, so was the illness you had physical, or psychological/emotional?

And when the priest prayed did you know that you had been healed/ did you know something was 'different' ?

I think when people face death whether it is a severe disease or psychological issues leading to suicide, it really puts life in focus. You really know the meaning of life is life itself and that is the foundation of everything that follows.

At least that was what happened with me.

Did having this experience give you faith or deepen the faith you already had? Were you catholic before the experience or did you become catholic afterwards?

reply to post by Mijamija

And when the priest prayed did you know that you had been healed/ did you know something was 'different' ?

I explained earlier the nature of my problem and it was something along the lines of what I thought you were describing in the OP and why I responded to the thread.
It was not like he was praying over me. I was in a group who were praying basically for each other and he was directing us, as in giving a set of instructions and then just standing and watching from a little distance where he could see if we were doing what we supposed to do but not interacting directly.
He did a specific thing two days later that was a special blessing, along with an anointing.
I realized later that I had been healed.

Did having this experience give you faith or deepen the faith you already had? Were you catholic before the experience or did you become catholic afterwards?

People around me, if they were not already prophets, became prophets and God would tell them things about me, so even though I was not a Catholic people knew they were supposed to treat me as if I was.
This is also how I knew to be at this retreat, the girl I knew who was involved in this movement became a prophetess and told me I had to go there, which of course I did.
The point being, I was in the midst of what you might call the supernatural in a lot of things that were happening around me and to me so this thing I was describing did not affect my way of thinking as far as belief goes but the healing did change my way of thinking to where I was not wasting mental energy on useless thoughts, so could be more productive in other areas. The healing does give a concrete type of event which is describable and is understandable to other people, that I can give as a testimonial to the potential that exists, for healing.