Christians....I'm SICK of them

Originally posted by sacgamer25

If you are serious about helping your mother look at the way Jesus was able to always refute the Pharisees logic. He was able to answer every question they asked in ways they were not ready for. He stumped them; they had nothing more to say, so they killed him.
...........

While I appreciate your advice, this is not the end result I'm looking for.

No, I dont think she would actually kill me, but she can be very mean and very spiteful.

reply to post by CrazyRaccoon


In this country we have freedom of speech. So if you have reasons to be sick of them....feel free to start a thread about it.

The few atheists I've met in my life never treated me the way those I described in the OP have.




In case you missed it in the OP. Here are some if my reasons.

My original experience with YOUR religion, at a very young age was filled with nothing more than Greed, and the "I am better than you" attitude, browbeating, preachers instilling fear......and all stuff that REALLY borderlines child emotional abuse.

reply to post by IAMIAM

There are only actions. If you do not like the action, look within it for the cause, and change it if you can or accept it if you cannot. Do you believe God is omnipotent? If so, then he is certainly powerful enough to administer justice.

If there are only actions alone void of good and evil, then surely you imply there is no such thing as 'sin', correct? Any such absence of sin would also remove any notion of administering 'Divine justice' via intervention or 'karmic' consequences in turn, would it not?

Indeed I don't "like" things like murder, torture and rape etc. The Holy Spirit that Granted the inner voice of conscience (the Divine within that speaks) informs me it is clearly wrong. One can also feel it in their spirit when they have done harm--that is unless they are so 'overcome' by adversary influence that they by will remove the POSITIVE influence Holy Spirit completely in extreme rebellion. Luciferian/occult servants conduct specific rituals for this very purpose to commit horrific acts, though I do not wish to delve further into this subject.

Now if there is no sin, then there is no 'justice' or accountability for 'wrong' actions ever required. So what is the meaning of life according to your perspective? Such would also greatly diminishes the requirement for Christ to re-establish His Kingdom if there was never anything 'wrong' to change things for 'better' as better is merely a 'concept' then right?.

There is only good in MY world. If your world has something different, you can always come sit in mine. With Love, Your Brother

Well YOUR world can swiftly change where you just may get an up close and personal taste of what evil is symbolised by. I would never wish such on anybody, but it is easy to live in denial of what evil is when one is not on the receiving end of torture for example. Then you will see what evil really looks like up close and personal--and it won't be denied because you will literally feel it's presence.

Let's do a hypothetical and forgive me for an extreme example--if someone was stabbing a loved one repeatedly, would you stop them? If yes, why? After all it's just an 'action'. No 'wrong' to stop, correct?

Love you all the same, but our alignments are very very different and built upon different foundations.

reply to post by wildtimes

(And by the way, you can expect that when you do those things, the people you are rejecting and insulting will protest. The protestation of unfair treatment is a right. The retaliation instinct is the acting out of "fight or flight", and part of human nature.... )

wildtimes ..I never intentionally insulted you when I disagreed with what you were saying.. but you retaliated with much hatred and psycho babble analysis of me.

I'm sorry it hurts you when I say that it is the spirit of the antichrist who says Jesus is not the only way to heaven.. and satans most common way of infiltrating peoples minds and hearts is to come as angel of light.. bringing love.. but it is a false light and not the true love of the Father.

The bible even tells us that wildtimes.. and Jesus warns us of those who will change His words..and add their own meanings.

You feel I insulted you with this observation..and I feel I am seeing it how Jesus wishes His true followers to see it.

You have had issues with me since I chose to defend someone who's child is missing from being attacked by you.. .. and you have tried to psycho analyze my life and make up all sorts of untruths about me.
Vogon also has jumped all over me.. and if I could show all the unkind things he has said to me.. the posts would be very high in number.

...and this from a man who sniffles about Christians not showing him love..?

So please.. continue practicing your unconditional love wildtimes.. on the select few you think "deserve' it.

I know I have failed in showing love at times.. but Jesus also understands why that happened.

I will continue to do His good work by pointing out the tactics of satan to those who may be being lead astray by those who are already misguided.

There is a lack of love shown by some Christians. Not all. I challenge you back...to show more love in how you address people who disagree with your interpretations of the Bible, God, and the Christian edicts -- that is, the actual message of Christ (which latter does NOT say to ridicule, denegrate, insult, and hold grudges against others for your perceptions of how they are and what they are trying to say).

As well I challenge you to love those who do not agree with your interpretations of who Christ is. ..what he was taught.. as well as the road that leads to eternal life.

I have apologized for words I have said in anger many times to you wildtimes.. but I think it is you who continues to hold the grudge.

I love you.. and forgive through the love of Jesus.

reply to post by vogon42

OH YES, it most certainly has! No longer surrounded by the browbeating fire and brimstone talk. No longer surrounded by hateful people that think their only purpose in life is to judge others.

vogon.. you say not being around these people has helped you..


I urge you to be honest with yourself vogon.. who is the one being hateful?.. who is the one judging others?

reply to post by gabby2011

Originally posted by vogon42

Originally posted by gabby2011
.......

Goodbye.

I hope you stick to your word this time.


SIGH.....I knew it was too good to be true.
You have stated this many times before, only to return and cloud up the thread.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

The interesting thing that I pointed out to you was that other than some Egyptian Glyphs, which don’t really match the bible much, there are no manuscripts from any religion that predate the biblical manuscripts, or predate Christ.

That is where you are wrong, friend. There are many religious writings that pre-date the Bible, and Christ is but 2000 years old, right? Here is a little history, you can check it out yourself, but it clearly shows much religious style writings way before the Bible writings, and way way before Christ. Who told you that your Bible and Christ were older that the recorded history of Mesopotamia, Sumeria, and Babylon? Whoever it was, was not telling you the truth.

3000 years Before the Common Era Sumerian Cuneiform emerged from the proto-literate Uruk period, allowing the codification of beliefs and creation of detailed historical religious records.
2494-2345 B.C.E. The first of the oldest surviving religious texts, the Pyramid Texts, are composed in Ancient Egypt.
2150-2000 B.C.E. The earliest surviving versions of the Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh (originally titled "He who Saw the Deep" or "Surpassing All Other Kings" was written, probably then oldest religious writing in the world.

The Babylonian creation myth is recounted in the "Epic of Creation" also known as the Enuma Elish. The Mesopotamian "Epic of Creation" (Original Flood story, origin of the Biblical Noah's Flood) dates to the late second millennium B.C.E.

And I suppose you have never heard of the First Book of Adam and Eve?

2000-1850 B.C.E. The traditionally accepted period in which the Judeo/Christian/Islamic patriarchal figure Abraham lived. Likely born in Ur or Haran, and died in Machpelah, Canaan.
Abraham was the original Christian patriarch, right? Can you prove me wrong?

How does the existence of stories that attempt to explain creation that are older than the bible change the validity of the bible? These stories are simply not similar enough to make any statement that the bible stole from them. And all the religious material that is similar enough to the stories in the bible do not appear until after Christ.
Just because Buddhism as a religion predates Christ does not mean that it existed in its current form before Christ. The same can be said about all other religious text that parallels the stories in the bible.

www.angelfire.com...

The story of Gilgamesh and Noah are closer but still quite different. The fact that more than one flood story exist is actually to me more proof that the flood was real. There were almost 1000 years between Noah and Moses. Since the flood was real I am sure the story was handed down from Noah, this is likely why the accounts of Gilgamesh and Noah do have some similarities. Yes you have provided eveidence that the biblical flood is real not that the story was stolen.

www.godandscience.org...

What exactly does the First Book of Adam and Eve have anything to do with the bible? There is absolutely no evidence that it exist prior to the 5th or 6th Century. Well after the bible was written.

I could write a book and call it the First Book of Moses but that does not mean it predates the bible.

So again as I have stated you have only proven that prior to Christ people were interested in God and Creation and they made of stories about both Gods and Creation. The stories simply do not align. What you have provided simply does not prove anything about the origin or validity of the bible.

reply to post by gabby2011


If I told you that 'offense' is a bait of the adversary, would you believe me?

These are all to be overcome in Holy Alignment, but at least we are ready to admit we all fall short of a perpetual state of Grace at times.

Blessings to you Gabby and May all your prayers be answered if they adhere to His Will.

Originally posted by vogon42

Originally posted by sacgamer25

If you are serious about helping your mother look at the way Jesus was able to always refute the Pharisees logic. He was able to answer every question they asked in ways they were not ready for. He stumped them; they had nothing more to say, so they killed him.
...........

While I appreciate your advice, this is not the end result I'm looking for.

No, I dont think she would actually kill me, but she can be very mean and very spiteful.

First I am sure that you know I was not suggesting your mother would kill you. Second what exactly am I asking that is too much. Again I am asking you to read a 400 page book that will help you help your mother. If you refuse to do this, there is no way that you will be able to accomplish what you hope.

reply to post by sacgamer25

Yes, I know you were not saying my mother would kill me.


Sorry, not that I don't appreciate your advice, but "refute the Pharisees logic", would be considered arguing (by her).

Arguing with my mother is going to prove nothing but bring out her spiteful side. Thus widening the gap that already exists between us.

reply to post by gabby2011

So please.. continue practicing your unconditional love wildtimes.. on the select few you think "deserve' it.

I know I have failed in showing love at times..

I have looked at your post history, and I and others have asked you questions pertaining to the "you" that Jesus knows so well, but none of us receive an answer. Why don't you try a little "self-disclosure" so that others can see past your anger and try to understand where it's coming from?

Your platitudes do not reveal anything deep(er) about you than foaming-at-the-mouth reactions to people who protest your claims that they are misguided, satan-peddling, incompetent unworthy sinners at best and wilfull evildoers at worst. That's my understanding of you. Your "apologies" are probably heartfelt, but yet daily you persist in insulting and attacking people using unkind words and slanderous claims.

My understanding of you, from your own presented evidence, is not a "grudge", per se, but more of a solid impression that you, yourself have given consistently to enough people and enough times to make it self-evident.

If that's a grudge in your mind, then yes, I am holding a grudge against you. Because you have said nothing that shows me you are willing to meet halfway. Oh, and all those "psycho-babble analises"? Based on 53 years of life experience, education, self-reflection, relationships, observation, careful listening, thought, study, and prayer.

You not taking them as valid is not my problem. Your insulting me and attempting to discredit me are not a problem either, because I'm not practicing, and you don't know me. I could spend this morning scanning testimonials, written evidence, in the handwriting of people who have taken the time to write them to me, of the help I have given people and the good wishes they have for me...and....*gasp* a lot of them are Catholic! Yes, it's true! Kind, humble, genuine people who I took the time to get to know and to allow them to see me for who I was.. in a work situation that had nothing to do with counseling. Others were clients or simply acquaintances.

But i will not. You don't deserve to see them, and would not believe them anyway. You'd say I tricked or lied to them, or forced them, or that I forged them.

Prove me wrong, gabby, tell us about your background and why you wake up every morning and persist in alienating others and defaming them, calling them "liars" and "charlatans" and "quacks" and "peddlers of satan's agenda" and telling them they are in for a "rude awakening" and couldn't "argue themselves out of a wet paper bag," You sound like a pissed-off twelve year old, habitually.

That's a bad habit, gabby. A bad habit....

For my part, I don't hate you, but I do in a small way feel sorry for you, and I do in a BIG way dislike the way you talk to people and about them, and I see that you not only have no idea what you are talking about, but what they are talking about either.

If you insist my thoughts, opinions, and impressions are "psycho-babble", why should I consider anything you say other than "Bible-babble"?

You continue to shine a bright light on yourself as a perfect example of the "problem" that your type of Christian stylist presents. If only vogon's mom could read your posts....and see them clearly...maybe she could say "Wow, I sure hope I don't sound like this!"
Or even better: if only YOU could read your posts and see them clearly and think "Wow, I guess I sound like this."

Good luck. I'll keep working on myself and striving to let go of anger against those who harm me. You used to really piss me off. Now you just are a mixture of tiresome and sadly entertaining, but still a great case in point.

reply to post by benedict9

If I told you that 'offense' is a bait of the adversary, would you believe me?

I'm not sure what you mean by that statement.. perhaps you could it make it more clear?

These are all to be overcome in Holy Alignment, but at least we are ready to admit we all fall short of a perpetual state of Grace at times.

Thank you for the words of encouragement..and I readily admit I fall short of being in a state of grace many times.

Blessings to you Gabby and May all your prayers be answered if they adhere to His Will.

Thank you so much for those prayers.. and yes ..always the will of the heavenly Father... in my life..as well as the lives of those I pray for.

Blessings to you as well

reply to post by wildtimes

I have looked at your post history, and I and others have asked you questions pertaining to the "you" that Jesus knows so well, but none of us receive an answer. Why don't you try a little "self-disclosure" so that others can see past your anger and try to understand where it's coming from?

the anger I usually deal with lately is being misrepresented..I have disclosed why I feel angry and hurt.

Your platitudes do not reveal anything deep(er) about you than foaming-at-the-mouth reactions to people who protest your claims that they are misguided, satan-peddling, incompetent unworthy sinners at best and wilfull evildoers at worst. That's my understanding of you. Your "apologies" are probably heartfelt, but yet daily you persist in insulting and attacking people using unkind words and slanderous claims.

Those are your judgements of me wildtimes.. ..your slander against me.

Because I merely state that satan manipulates humans away from the truth and meaning of His words ..and that have some fallen pray to that.. I have never called them an incompetent unworthy sinner.

If I actually thought that would I go so far as to make a thread asking for people who actively practice satanism that Jesus loves them and wants them to return to him?

My understanding of you, from your own presented evidence, is not a "grudge", per se, but more of a solid impression that you, yourself have given consistently to enough people and enough times to make it self-evident.

Is that why I have others tell me I have a good heart wildtimes.. and to hang in there and ignore the insults from others?

Prove me wrong, gabby, tell us about your background and why you wake up every morning and persist in alienating others and defaming them, calling them "liars" and "charlatans" and "quacks" and "peddlers of satan's agenda" and telling them they are in for a "rude awakening" and couldn't "argue themselves out of a wet paper bag," You sound like a pissed-off twelve year old, habitually.

Why do you persist on making things up about me..?

I wake up in the morning asking God to help me.. and to help others to come to know the light of his Son Jesus...and yes I admit I fail in the way I go about that at times.

I see a very dangerous trend going on now .. and that is a watering down of the words of Jesus or a misrepresentation.. as soon as I read someone say That Christ is NOT the only true way to the father.. or that the death of Jesus and His sacrifice for us means nothing...warning bells go off.

You continue to shine a bright light on yourself as a perfect example of the "problem" that your type of Christian stylist presents. If only vogon's mom could read your posts....and see them clearly...maybe she could say "Wow, I sure hope I don't sound like this!" Or even better: if only YOU could read your posts and see them clearly and think "Wow, I guess I sound like this."

Maybe you need to concern your self with reading your own posts wildtimes... and seeing what spirit they are written in.. and perhaps vogon needs to do that as well.

Good luck. I'll keep working on myself and striving to let go of anger against those who harm me. You used to really piss me off. Now you just are a mixture of tiresome and sadly entertaining, but still a great case in point.

Is this an example of your unconditional love.. ? I strive to let go of the hurt that others cause me as well wildtimes.. by trying to make me into some sort of psychological "case study".. by constantly making up reasons why I do things and exaggerating.

Prayer and the sacraments are what gives me strength to forgive.. and to accept forgiveness from Jesus.

I love you through Christ wildtimes ..and I will continue to keep you in my prayers.

reply to post by gabby2011

wildtimes ..I never intentionally insulted you when I disagreed with what you were saying.. but you retaliated with much hatred and psycho babble analysis of me.

No? I've just spent the last half hour reading through the replies to me from the Lisa Irwin thread alone...
I have them compiled in a word document, as evidence of what you have said to discredt and insult me.
Would you like me to send them via u2u? Or post them publicly?

Probably wouldn't do any good, though. Just the sentence above shows enough...
"I have never insulted you...but...you blah blah much hatred and psycho babble analysis..."
You know what? That's insulting, gabs. And it's a milder form of same than some of the other instances I can provide you for your consideration.

Just pointing it out.

Have I "insulted you back"? Yes. And I have worked toward reconciliation with you, which effort has failed.
Oh well.

What's that? Just a smattering of my favorites?
"bye bye you big HYPOCRITE",
"See ya wouldn't wanna be ya",
and the classics:

:yep..can see baby Lisa saying it.."leave the psycho analytical crap of my mother out of this.. or you will get whats coming to you.."..and "someday it may just be your turn for the whole world to analyze your life..and I hope you get mistreated in the process"..

You're a prime example of someone I would not want working with any family..you're judgement of families that may have problems is concerning ..did you talk about all the families you helped that way?

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to pop over to some other forums to share ideas with people who appreciate my doing so and openly welcome me.

EDT: Oh, one more thing:

trying to make me into some sort of psychological "case study"..

EVERY ONE OF US IS A PSYCHOLOGICAL CASE STUDY, gabby. EVERYONE.

Originally posted by gabby2011

Prove me wrong, gabby, tell us about your background and why you wake up every morning and persist in alienating others and defaming them, calling them "liars" and "charlatans" and "quacks" and "peddlers of satan's agenda" and telling them they are in for a "rude awakening" and couldn't "argue themselves out of a wet paper bag," You sound like a pissed-off twelve year old, habitually.

Why do you persist on making things up about me..?

Do you not recall this post of yours

Originally posted by gabby2011 ....... you couldn't argue yourself out of a wet paper bag with your arguments.......

Originally posted by benedict9
If there are only actions alone void of good and evil, then surely you imply there is no such thing as 'sin', correct? Any such absence of sin would also remove any notion of administering 'Divine justice' via intervention or 'karmic' consequences in turn, would it not?

Justice IS divine. Everything is according to God's will. He gives what you ask for. If you ask for judgement against your enemies, he gives it, but unto YOU first. If you ask him to forgive your enemies, he gives it to YOU first.

Originally posted by benedict9Let's do a hypothetical and forgive me for an extreme example--if someone was stabbing a loved one repeatedly, would you stop them? If yes, why? After all it's just an 'action'. No 'wrong' to stop, correct?

I do not have the power to stop anyone from doing anything my friend. If I did, there would be peace on earth, for all are my loved ones.

If they are stopped and it is by me, then it is God who used me.

I am his servant.

Nothing I do is of my own accord.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by sacgamer25

I could write a book and call it the First Book of Moses but that does not mean it predates the bible.

Just as I, or anyone, for that matter, could study these old stories, and create a book from them, change it about, make it the official canon of the State, and that would be that. It goes both ways. Speaking of Moses, have you ever read the The Sword of Moses? A very interesting book of sorcery and Egyptian Magick. The point is, we have all of these Ancient documents, some not even translated yet. We cannot just take some of them, like Constantine did, and call it the official words of God. Humanity has been writing down things they saw, heard, and felt for as long as there has been writing.

reply to post by wildtimes

For my part, I don't hate you, but I do in a small way feel sorry for you, and I do in a BIG way dislike the way you talk to people and about them, and I see that you not only have no idea what you are talking about, but what they are talking about either. If you insist my thoughts, opinions, and impressions are "psycho-babble", why should I consider anything you say other than "Bible-babble"?

That goes for me too, gabby. I too have read your posts, and can see your intent, and friend, it will not work in a forum as big as this one. You may be the top dog in your church, where all of the other poor brainwashed souls are, but in here, you are conversing with some very intelligent, well read people, people who spend years on research projects, religious theologians, those who speak and understand Hebrew, those who are on a higher level than you, and ET/Human Hybrids that are far above your Earth religions and dogma. Coming in here to convert everyone into your religion will never work. We love you, you are a human being, after all, and we all try to educate you on these matters, all to no avail. You sadly live in a very small world filled with Satans and Demons, and no one can change your mind. I feel sorry for you.

reply to post by wildtimes

No? I've just spent the last half hour reading through the replies to me from the Lisa Irwin thread alone... I have them compiled in a word document, as evidence of what you have said to discredt and insult me. Would you like me to send them via u2u? Or post them publicly?

We could both play that game wildtimes.. because I could compile all of the posts you made in judgement against me. because I would not bash debbie along with you.

Quite frankly every post I made to you was in defense of your self righteous "educational higher learning" to be able to rip others apart.. and condemn them.

But people can read the threads and judge for themselves.

In the end it is Jesus's judgement I am concerned with.. and I know in my heart I don't want to fight with you.. and have made that perfectly clear when I have tried to reconcile with you several times...

It seems as soon as I don't agree with all you say and stroke your ego.. you become inflamed with hatred towards me.

Oh well (sighs).. my prayers are always with you.. and I only want for you what Jesus and His father want for you.

I readily admit I have said things in hurt and anger.. but if you closely examine why.. you may understand with your heart more clearly.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by wildtimes

 

For my part, I don't hate you, but I do in a small way feel sorry for you, and I do in a BIG way dislike the way you talk to people and about them, and I see that you not only have no idea what you are talking about, but what they are talking about either. If you insist my thoughts, opinions, and impressions are "psycho-babble", why should I consider anything you say other than "Bible-babble"?

That goes for me too, gabby. I too have read your posts, and can see your intent, and friend, it will not work in a forum as big as this one. You may be the top dog in your church, where all of the other poor brainwashed souls are, but in here, you are conversing with some very intelligent, well read people, people who spend years on research projects, religious theologians, those who speak and understand Hebrew, those who are on a higher level than you, and ET/Human Hybrids that are far above your Earth religions and dogma. Coming in here to convert everyone into your religion will never work. We love you, you are a human being, after all, and we all try to educate you on these matters, all to no avail. You sadly live in a very small world filled with Satans and Demons, and no one can change your mind. I feel sorry for you.

oh my..I am hardly the "top dog" in my church.. more like the worldy sinner who has just recently come crawling back to ask for mercy from my heavenly Father.


Please don't feel sorry for me.. I have the grace of Jesus.. and the guidance of His heavenly mother and the Holy angels.

Mans "intelligence" is nothing to God Almighty...and the pride of mankind is their downfall.

May the grace and mercy of Jesus be with you .. and may you have the humility needed to cry out for it.. when you realize how needed it is... not just in your life.. but in all of our lives..believers and unbelievers.