Could this be the biggest find since the Dead Sea Scrolls? Seventy metal books found in cave in Jord

Not sure if it has been done yet but here is a thread about it none the less.

Is it a new discovery, could they be fakes, will they ever be seen or will the evil of man's nature destroy them because the truth of it is too much political correctness.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

For scholars of faith and history, it is a treasure trove too precious for price.
This ancient collection of 70 tiny books, their lead pages bound with wire, could unlock some of the secrets of the earliest days of Christianity.
Academics are divided as to their authenticity but say that if verified, they could prove as pivotal as the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1947.

On pages not much bigger than a credit card, are images, symbols and words that appear to refer to the Messiah and, possibly even, to the Crucifixion and Resurrection.
Adding to the intrigue, many of the books are sealed, prompting academics to speculate they are actually the lost collection of codices mentioned in the Bible’s Book Of Revelation.

The books were discovered five years ago in a cave in a remote part of Jordan to which Christian refugees are known to have fled after the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD. Important documents from the same period have previously been found there.
Initial metallurgical tests indicate that some of the books could date from the first century AD.


This estimate is based on the form of corrosion which has taken place, which experts believe would be impossible to achieve artificially.
If the dating is verified, the books would be among the earliest Christian documents, predating the writings of St Paul.

The prospect that they could contain contemporary accounts of the final years of Jesus’s life has excited scholars – although their enthusiasm is tempered by the fact that experts have previously been fooled by sophisticated fakes.

David Elkington, a British scholar of ancient religious history and archeology, and one of the few to have examined the books, says they could be ‘the major discovery of Christian history’.
‘It is a breathtaking thought that we have held these objects that might have been held by the early saints of the Church,’ he said.

But the mysteries between their ancient pages are not the books’ only riddle. Today, their whereabouts are also something of a mystery. After their discovery by a Jordanian Bedouin, the hoard was subsequently acquired by an Israeli Bedouin, who is said to have illegally smuggled them across the border into Israel, where they remain.
However, the Jordanian Government is now working at the highest levels to repatriate and safeguard the collection. Philip Davies, emeritus professor of biblical studies at Sheffield University, said there was powerful evidence that the books have a Christian origin in plates cast into a picture map of the holy city of Jerusalem.

‘There are walls depicted on other pages of these books too and they almost certainly refer to Jerusalem. It is a Christian crucifixion taking place outside the city walls.’
The British team leading the work on the discovery fears that the present Israeli ‘keeper’ may be looking to sell some of the books on to the black market, or worse – destroy them.
But the man who holds the books denies the charge and claims they have been in his family for 100 years.
Dr Margaret Barker, a former president of the Society for Old Testament Study, said: ‘The Book of Revelation tells of a sealed book that was opened only by the Messiah.
‘Other texts from the period tell of sealed books of wisdom and of a secret tradition passed on by Jesus to his closest disciples. That is the context for this discovery.’

Professor Davies said: ‘The possibility of a Hebrew-Christian origin is certainly suggested by the imagery and, if so, these codices are likely to bring dramatic new light to our understanding of a very significant but so far little understood period of history.’
Mr Elkington, who is leading British efforts to have the books returned to Jordan, said: ‘It is vital that the collection can be recovered intact and secured in the best possible circumstances, both for the benefit of its owners and for a potentially fascinated international audience.’
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This news I have seen on ATS before ...peace

too add the article is from march 30th 2011 .. old news but intresting ....I havent heard any followups from the orginal ...

The patina looks good...

That's the first thing you really look at with metals. Can't really fake a natural patina.

Past that, there were thousands of people crucified in those times. Why is everything found in the Middle East automatically pushed into the religion category?

Isn't it just as likely that the Roman army decided to crucify a few people and wanted to make a permanent record of it for others to see (fear-mongering)?

Nah, you are right...

Someone's being crucified... must be that one guy that no one else in history has taken the time to write about, but that every artifact found in sand is attributed to...

More is said to be discovered about these lead fidings, seems like everyone in the UK at lead are going crazy after lead when it comes to churches but not for the right reasons though it seems.

According to sources in Saham, they were discovered five years ago after a flash flood scoured away the dusty mountain soil to reveal what looked like a large capstone. When this was levered aside, a cave was discovered with a large number of small niches set into the walls. Each of these niches contained a booklet. There were also other objects, including some metal plates and rolled lead scrolls.
The area is renowned as an age-old refuge for ancient Jews fleeing the bloody aftermath of a series of revolts against the Roman empire in the First and early Second Century AD.
The cave is less than 100 miles from Qumran, where the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered, and around 60 miles from Masada, scene of the last stand and mass suicide of an extremist Zealot sect in the face of a Roman Army siege in 72AD – two years after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem.

If genuine, it seems clear that these books were, in fact, created by an early Messianic Jewish sect, perhaps closely allied to the early Christian church and that these images represent Christ himself. However another theory, put forward by Robert Feather – an authority on The Dead Sea Scrolls and author of The Mystery Of The Copper Scroll Of Qumran – is that these books are connected to the Bar Kokhba Revolt of 132-136AD, the third major rebellion by the Jews of Judea Province and the last of the Jewish-Roman Wars.
The revolt established an independent state of Israel over parts of Judea for two years before the Roman army finally crushed it, with the result that all Jews, including the early Christians, were barred from Jerusalem.

One plate has been interpreted as a schematic map of Christian Jerusalem showing the Roman crosses outside the city walls. At the top can be seen a ladder-type shape. This is thought to be a balustrade mentioned in a biblical description of the Temple in Jerusalem. Below that are three groups of brickwork, to represent the walls of the city.
A fruiting palm tree suggests the House of David and there are three or four shapes that appear to be horizontal lines intersected by short vertical lines from below. These are the T-shaped crosses believed to have been used in biblical times (the familiar crucifix shape is said to date from the 4th Century). The star shapes in a long line represent the House of Jesse – and then the pattern is repeated.
This interpretation of the books as proto-Christian artefacts is supported by Margaret Barker, former president of the Society for Old Testament Study and one of Britain’s leading experts on early Christianity. The fact that a figure is portrayed would appear to rule out these codices being connected to mainstream Judaism of the time, where portrayal of lifelike figures was strictly forbidden because it was considered idolatry.

If genuine, it seems clear that these books were, in fact, created by an early Messianic Jewish sect, perhaps closely allied to the early Christian church and that these images represent Christ himself. However another theory, put forward by Robert Feather – an authority on The Dead Sea Scrolls and author of The Mystery Of The Copper Scroll Of Qumran – is that these books are connected to the Bar Kokhba Revolt of 132-136AD, the third major rebellion by the Jews of Judea Province and the last of the Jewish-Roman Wars

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www.dailymail.co.uk...

reply to post by The time lord


As I said, I don't doubt the antiquity...

That amount of patina takes hundreds of years even in an active environment. The dry desert would slow the process and they look pretty good (given the fact they have probably been handled and worn since their discovery).

I would go for the idea of a lasting memento from the Jewish/Roman war. That seems much more plausible to me, as I pointed out in my last post.

Still an awesome piece of history none-the-less.

Kinda frustrating that some guy won't share the context with the world.

reply to post by The time lord


If proven to be from the first century, I would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to read them!

"If the dating is verified, the books would be among the earliest Christian documents, predating the writings of St Paul."

I would enjoy cross-referencing these books against Paulian-Christianity. How exciting!

Like the dead sea scrolls they will undoubtedly become the property of the Roman Catholic Church who will suppress them as they did the scrolls......
Nobody is gonna see these till they get censored...errr.... sanctified

Very nice.

Whats with all the pyramids??



OMG Illuminati again!!! AHHH!!!

Lol sorry folks just having some fun.

I remember seeing a story about these before, maybe a year or so ago. The discovery itself is genuine, but whether the books are fakes or real, or of any value or not, well, I think they're still trying to figure it all out, or at least I haven't heard anything.

reply to post by The time lord


Interesting. I hadn't heard about these being found but i have heard stories that the codices would be found in the end times. Interesting lion head on the front. This could be the physical proof we've been looking for all these years. I'm just worried they will get destroyed by someone who doesn't want the truth to be made known.

The little bit I've seen tends to indicate that they are at least doubtful, if not fakes. Here's a hint of the discussion:

A number of experts urged skepticism until further investigation could be conducted.

On 31 March 2011, a letter was published online by Daniel C. Peterson which had been written in 2010 by Elkington. The letter was to Oxford academic Peter Thonemann, sending images of a "copper tablet" and asking for information on Greek text on it. Thonemann replied that the item was a modern forgery, created during the last 50 years in Jordan, because the text copied a truncated tombstone inscription (AD 108/9) from the Archaeological Museum of Amman. Thonemann said that he "would stake [his] career" on his belief that the material had been faked.

There's more on the subject here:Another wiki link - Jordan Codices

No offence to Arab and Muslim world but they really like to destroy or coverup any Biblical evidence when they find it, their own laws make it impossible for non Muslims to even document them, I guess this guy who found them is not even a Christian, the Arab world needs to start telling the truth and open doors in which the holy places of Judaism can be investigated, but all we get is closed off places, riots over ancient tombs caves and places of worship that predates even their own faith.

I believe if the facts and evidence was more open to the public and the world the athiests would also be more open and accept that maybe the Bible is telling the truth but instead the Christians have to put up with both sides where one does not believe and where the other (islam) thinks it is a different history. The world is divided by things like these, no wonder when the devil comes to power he will convince at least a billion people to wage war against Israel and the Christian world.

Yes we have read on ATS how most of the terrorism and war involves Islamic people who want to enforce Sharia law and Christians happen to oppose such seperatism and are killed by it, a lot of Christians are killed and Churches destroyed in places like Africa more often then Christians destroying Mosques although some revenge attacks do happen by Christian groups.

The world is divided by these two religions like it or not, Christians are forced out or killed all over the Islamic nations to a point where none of them hardly exist and like wise so is the information on the faith covered up.

I hope these metal lead books prove something because things like these will improve mankind even though for the faithful they don't need evidence when you feel spiritual enough just by reading the work of God.

Just incase people think Jewish Culture was made up and they were not in Jeruselem 2012 years ago at least some evidence of it can be seen in other cultures, Both Rome and Babylon history even Egyptian hold some form of Jewish culture in their art works.

The Arch of Titus is a 1st-century honorific arch[1] located on the Via Sacra, Rome, just to the south-east of the Roman Forum. It was constructed in c.82 AD by the Roman Emperor Domitian shortly after the death of his older brother Titus to commemorate Titus' victories, including the Siege of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

The Arch of Titus has provided the general model for many of the triumphal arches erected since the 16th century—perhaps most famously it is the inspiration for the 1806 Arc de Triomphe in Paris, France, completed in 1836.







en.wikipedia.org...