MOAB damage radius.

We can produce some of the greatest killing machine in the world. We lose texiles, furniture, but that sound in the distance is Slim Witman heading his way to mother Russia, Iran now, riding a giant falic shaped bomb. America's leading exports, JDAMS, MOABs, cruise missles, Iran's leading import's soon giant crater's and desert glass sculptures.

Originally posted by Harry12
We can produce some of the greatest killing machine in the world. We lose texiles, furniture, but that sound in the distance is Slim Witman heading his way to mother Russia, Iran now, riding a giant falic shaped bomb. America's leading exports, JDAMS, MOABs, cruise missles, Iran's leading import's soon giant crater's and desert glass sculptures.

This has what to do with this thread ? Go and preach somewhere else.

Originally posted by E_T
Now I found something about MOAB.

BOMB RADIUS DAMAGE

* Up to 1,000 yards: Obliterates everything.

* Up to 1 mile: Knocks people, tents, light buildings, cars and jeeps over within 1-mile radius.

* Up to 1.7 miles: shock wave kills people, causes severe damage to buildings, equipment, blows trucks, tanks off road.

* Up to 2 miles: causes deafness.

* Up to 5 miles: shakes ground, breaks windows.

* Up to 30 miles: 10,000 foot high mushroom cloud visible.

[Source The Lexington Institute and Globalsecurity.org]

www.globalsecurity.org...

Sounds like fun, doesn't it?

This MOAB is excellent. Just what I need to drop on the University of Jihad, about 60 miles west of the capital city of Pakistan, Islamabad.

Reject peace talks with the Taliban - crush the enemy instead

I want to tell you all how to beat the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

So this is about "AfPak" military strategy and as well as direct advice for US, British & NATO generals, it is to inform the public so our political leaders know what can be done and what to ask of our military.

In this video in February this year, I outlined my rejection of the idea of peace talks with the Taliban, favouring a more aggressive military approach with a view to crushing the Taliban and similar like-minded jihadis.

At the end of a CBS news report in this video, I presented my strategy for crushing the Taliban and putting down their insurgency in Afghanistan which envisaged a significant confrontation with the Pakistani and Saudi states.



Here's the transcipt of what I say in that video.

"So the Deans of Jihad have dictated terms to the West, the terms they propose of the West's surrender to the Jihadis in the war on terror.

So what should the response of the West be? Should we surrender to the Jihadis, or should we fight to win?

This guy Sami ul Haq should be a prisoner at Guantanamo Bay Detention Camp along with his University of Jihad colleagues, his controllers from the Pakistani ISI and his financial backers from Saudi Arabia.

The US and Western allies ought to name Pakistan and Saudi Arabia as "state sponsors of terrorism".

There ought to be drone strikes on the University of Jihad. (Darul Uloom Haqqania, Akora Khattak, Pakistan)

We ought to seize control of Pakistani and Saudi TV satellites and use them to broadcast propaganda calling for the arrest of all involved in waging terrorist war against the West.

It just seems very poor tactics for our military to be risking life and limb in the minefields of Afghanistan yet at the strategic level our governments and businesses are still "trading with the enemy".

As the Star Trek character Commander Scott might have said -

"It's war, Captain but not as we know it.""

But months later, I got to thinking that a pin-prick drone strike on the University of Jihad would be insufficient and really a heavy bombing raid on the base to flatten it completely was more appropriate.

Bomb Taliban Jihadi indoctrination bases in Pakistan.

I am suggesting that our forces bomb the Taliban Headquarters known as "the University of Jihad" or Darul Uloom Haqqania, Akora Khattak, 50 kilometres (31 miles) east of the provincial capital, Peshawar.

More about the place in this BBC webpage

BBC NEWS | South Asia | The 'university of holy war'

The significance of this place is that it is the main recruitment and command centre for the Taliban which must be known to our military intelligence officers and so it is a mystery why they have not advised our generals to bomb this place before now or if they did advise our generals to bomb it why they didn't actually bomb it?

It makes no sense in a war to give the enemy headquarters a free pass and immunity from being targeted. It just makes their commanders feel untouchable which is not how we want them to feel. We want them arrested or dead or in great fear that soon they will be arrested or dead and bombing their HQ gives them that idea.

Our forces do not have ground forces close enough to use artillery to destroy this target so that leaves NATO to use its aerial power - drones and bomber planes, to bomb the target from the air.

So apart from not wanting to use nuclear weapons on such a weak target which would be over-kill, I think bombing using the very heaviest conventional bombs, MOABs or heavy bombing from B52s or C130s is appropriate.

Heavy bombing could be used to totally level such targets, or turn the target site into one huge crater field - obliterate it. Give the Jihadis a demonstration that they won't ever forget!

Then if the Taliban and Jihadi leaders relocate to a new recruitment, indoctrination and command base, blast that to pieces as well.

Our forces will have to establish air superiority over the target areas to allow not only unmanned drones but piloted heavy bombers with a much heavier bomb load to over-fly the area reasonably safely.

If and when Pakistan objects to our plans to aerial bomb these enemy indoctrination bases we should tell them that because our view is that Pakistan does not control the ground there to our satisfaction - because Pakistani police or military have not arrested and handed over the likes of the Darul Uloom Haqqania and other Taliban leaders operating on the ground for removal to Guantanamo Bay Detention Camp and not closed down the University of Jihad and other Taliban bases then the Pakistan military don't deserve control of the air space over that ground which they don't satisfactorily control.

So we can say "Sorry" if the Pakistanis don't like this violation of their sovereignty but the needs of war mean this is something we must do. We wouldn't intend to permanently deprive Pakistan of control over its air space; this would be a temporary measure until the war on terror is won.

Pakistan had their chance to arrest or kill the Taliban leaders in their Pakistan bases but now it is too late so we are going to flatten the Taliban bases in that part of Pakistan from the air and we need total air superiority over the target area in order to protect our pilots.

The Pakistan government and military has complained about drone strikes in parts of Pakistan but Pakistan has not gone to war with us about it, thankfully.

Hopefully, the Pakistanis will not want to contest air superiority with their military but if they do decide to fight to resist our air-superiority where we need it to bomb the Taliban then we must be prepared to take out all nearby Pakistani ground to air missile batteries and any air fighters they send against us to contest air superiority.

If the Pakistanis decide to fight us over control of Pakistan's air space then of course there is a risk this could escalate to all-out war if the Pakistanis really want to make a casus belli out of the sovereignty issue and the matter of us requiring to destroy the Taliban so possibly we should make it clear to the Pakistanis that the US President or the NATO supreme commander have the option to use nuclear weapons against Pakistani military bases anywhere in Pakistan if that was necessary to win an all-out war with Pakistan.

That's not our aim to escalate to an all-out war with Pakistan here but Pakistan should be careful not to escalate the situation from one where we need to go after the Taliban only into one where the official Pakistan military gets dragged into a war with us unnecessarily.

This risk of having to fight and win an all-out war with Pakistan is a lesser risk than failing to defeat the Taliban, withdrawing from Pakistan having achieved little to secure Afghanistan and thereby giving encouragement to Jihadis the world over to commit more acts of terrorism and war elsewhere in the world including in our homelands. So Pakistan should not force us to make that choice of two risky options because their defeat is preferable to our own defeat in our opinion.

Pakistan should avoid war with the West by stepping back and allowing us to destroy the Taliban in Pakistan because it is the Taliban and the Jihahis who are the true enemies of the Pakistani and Afghan people. We are the friends of the people of Pakistan and we will prove that by defeating their and our enemy, the Taliban and associated Jihadis.

Hopefully the Pakistanis will back off and let us bomb the Taliban without threat from Pakistan's air defences. We should tell Pakistan that we are doing them a favour which they will thank us for in the long run though we appreciate the embarrassment for them in the short term.

Originally posted by injun joe
the big difference between the MOAB and the Daisy Cutter beside the size is that MOAB is guided by GPS so it will hit right on the money.

Here are the co-ordinates for Akora Khattak.

Geohack - Akora Khattak

34° 0′ 2.17″ N, 72° 7′ 18.06″ E
34.000603,72.121683

and if you look on Google Maps the co-ordinates for Akora Khattak seems to be centred right on the Darul Uloom Haqqania / University of Jihad.

That location is in a built-up area (of course the cowards would use civilian human shields) so using the MOAB is bound to do a fair amount of collateral damage to surrounding buidings and people. So the word should go out now - evacuate Akora Khattak and don't live within 5 miles of any such jihadi university otherwise you could be hit by mistake.

Originally posted by sturod84
yeah thats the way to do it!

no more radioactive fallout as a result of world domination. woohoo!

but seriously do we even have any enemies the size of 10 football fields? i guess only time will tell the next world war seems just around the corner, god forbid we actually have to use this thing.

These were designed as an alternative to small scale nuclear devices, which still happen to be all the vogue. START covers long and medium range missiles (and the reason the treaty was initially agreed was that the US / USSR decided they had more that enough firepower to destroy the world so they should do something about that).

Therefore they present something of a paradox in that they are clearly a horrible weapon but at the same time far better than the alternative.

Originally posted by injun joe
the big difference between the MOAB and the Daisy Cutter beside the size is that MOAB is guided by GPS so it will hit right on the money.

Well back in the day of Vietnam, there wasn't GPS and guidance kits to fit to dumb bombs so all bombs were pretty dumb.

I wonder if someone has fitted a Joint Direct Attack Munition guidance kit to a BLU-82B/C-130 "daisy cutter"? Someone must have thought of that before now.

Wikipedia says

nicknamed "daisy cutter" in Vietnam and in Afghanistan for its ability to flatten a forest into a helicopter landing zone, is a 15,000 pound (6,800 kg) conventional bomb, delivered from either a C-130 or an MC-130 transport aircraft. 225 were constructed.[1] The BLU-82 was retired in 2008 and replaced with the more powerful MOAB.

Since they were used in Afghanistan and only retired in 2008 it makes me think they might have tried daisy cutters out with JDAMs since a guided missile is worth 100 dumb bombs in effect and a million times in propaganda value as you hit the enemy not the innocents.

I think it is a shame they retired the daisy cutter size of bomb because looking at it, it's more the size of blast I need for the University of Jihad which seems to have a campus of about 100 metres x 100 metres squared.

Since I only need one daisy cutter for that University of Jihad, do you think they'd have a few left over in stocks somewhere, even though it has been retired?

Wikipedia again on the daisy cutter -

Later it was used in Afghanistan as an anti-personnel weapon and as an intimidation weapon because of its very large lethal radius (variously reported as 300 to 900 feet/100 to 300 meters) combined with a visible flash and audible sound at long distances.

So a daisy cutter size bomb is plenty for the University of Jihad - if it was JDAM guided to hit right on the money.

Whereas a MOAB is a bit too much but better too much than too little which would be the case using only 2000lb / 925 Kg Mark 84 bombs because you'd need to drop quite a number of those 84s to destroy that target.

The advantage with using many smaller 84s is you could use much stealthier aircraft, get in and hit the target probably before Pakistan's air defences had woken up. Not so with the C130 or other big transport aircraft you'd need for the MOAB or daisy cutter because those planes are anything but stealthy - meaning either the Pakistani air defences would need to be stood down or knocked out first.

I am just war gaming this out loud to see if anyone has any better ideas of how to take this target out?

I seem to be under the impression that Moab was used in the Afganistan mountain side when the US was chasing the taliban and Osama. I remember them bragging in the media about it.

Interesting that at 0:06 in this video, the blast radius is given as 450ft (137.2m)

Blast Radius
450ft (137.2m)

which is a smaller figure than given by the GlobalSecurity. org quoting a March 12, 2003 New York Post story which states

BOMB RADIUS DAMAGE
* Up to 1,000 yards: Obliterates everything.

which I think was hyped a bit to intimidate the Iraqi military into surrender.

But it's OK. 450 ft radius (137.2 m) is PLENTY for that jihadi indoctrination base at Akora Khattak.

Originally posted by E_T
Now I found something about MOAB.

BOMB RADIUS DAMAGE

* Up to 1 mile: Knocks people, tents, light buildings, cars and jeeps over

* Up to 1.7 miles: shock wave kills people, causes severe damage to buildings, equipment, blows trucks, tanks off road.

It kills at 1.7miles but doesn't knock them over at that range too?