Impossible to comprehend...

Originally posted by Droidinvoid
Around 70 % of schizophrenics hear voices that interrupt their thought patterns on a consistent basis and 15% of people with mood disorders experience auditory hallucinations. However, hearing noises or voices isn’t necessarily a sign of mental illness.

So this begs the question, schizophrenia cannot have come into being until language entered the equation.

Good post BTW.

Not necessarily, they also hallucinate mythical beings like demons, angels, fairies, etc. Also, their auditory hallucinations include background noises, like a door slamming etc.

Unless you can put a thought into words it will remain incomplete in your mind. Words are symbols that represent real things. With out the ability to make symbolic associations no logic is possible. I am not saying we need words to think, but i am sure that we need symbols to have thoughts that register as logical.

Originally posted by g0dhims3lf
reply to post by Frira

 

Good post! , I like the way you explained it. It gives meaning to the popular saying, "You dont know me" which can also be said, "I dont know how to explain me" lol. Feelings, emotions are sometimes the hardest things to explain. Most the time I write poetry to capture what I mean but the true meaning of how I actually feel or what Im thinking seems impossible to explain. Maybe my lack of vocabulary. On a semi-related note it seems the more knowledgable and technologically advanced we get the more confused and in danger we are. We move away from happiness and survival to desires and control. Morality and ethics are determinate only to the one thinking them while the universal language of math is definitive. Does this mean it is impossible to truly reason when emotions are involved? That there is no true answer to life only an equation of the universe.

Good post! right back at you.

Emotions do not need or even use words or symbols of any kind until we have a need to communicate them, and intuitive thought is much the same.

On the other hand, understanding complex thought-- not just cause and effect; but, for example, the experiences which led to the thought, the intuitive sense of meaning and so on-- those tend to remain somewhat fluid until given words and "captured" as you say.

Twenty or thirty years ago, I was fascinated and confounded (because I could not do it) by the concept of "prayer without words." I'm a theologian and a religious (as in, in an order, with vows-- but not living in community)-- so spent much mental effort contemplating WITH WORDS, what language is about:

I decided that beyond the spoken and written versions, there is also music, mathematics, and symbols and images.

I write very little poetry and never very well, so I bow to you and that gift.

reply to post by iSHRED


the answer is communication objective value

what everyone here seem to ignore, is the other existence as the reason of objective reality, but what i rather call the else then the other for what i think that one is always wrong

so it depends on the dimension fact happening level, apples and oranges as things different object allow all kind of possible realities in meaning their relations objectivity

true communications happen in absolute freedom dimension where freedom else is objective so individual free is relative sense to

one is wrong always, as even to that point for instance one is what cannot be real objectively with else

one is the freedom that stayed still so became a whole absolute reality itself always, while freedom sense is what is always ready as none to move wholly

we know that ourselves are relative things beings to us, but the true free cells is us dealing with it and with our existence facts

freedom possible way for moving cant but through meaning objective superiority as object value perspective, for positive end relative constancy


the fact that free move realize positive end through superior objective perspective

did had the effect of new freedom rise from the positive end, so the reverse sense, while certain that they are object superiority which is surely the essence base of one

they dont want to recognize else freedom cause of their base and choose to profit from willing to possess fully that free sense as theirs absolutely and for that stay still

that is why if u observe honestly u would realize how, objective positive perspective is always source of urself sense being one
while objective superior perspective is always source of urself conscious sense being free

the other problem that surely rised from freedom equation in truth

is what truth freedom move cause is objective superiority

while the result was ones possessors of freedom as existence still

so from one side there wont b objective superiority anymore, problem for true free sense
and from other side truth freedom will ignore them since it cant b when objective is inferior

but truth freedom that know it will have a problem since it cant but one way, objective superiority

this could explain the focus on right freedom senses that truth could use as objective superiority

but still how truth is gonna attack ones?

reply to post by iSHRED


If "thought" necessitates mindfulness and mindfulness depends on the brains ability to retain and assign meaning to experiences then "thought" before intrapersonal comprehendabilty ie language, cannot exist. What would exist would be experience and growing consciousness unto self-awareness.

But the question: Is it possible to think, imagine, conceive, exist without language and words to muddle the thoughts?

My answer: When I'm lying in the pasture on a cloudless, moonless night staring up at the stars, I absolutely can let all my thoughts and worries and contemplations go being at total peace with just existing in my existance. It could be compared to a conscious, wordless dream of contentment.

So is thought without language possible? Yes, I think so.