Dreaming before you sleep

Hi all,


my first thread, thought i'd see if anyone else has ever really investigated the stages of going from being awake to being asleep. When i was young i noticed how when you wake up you never remember falling asleep, you just remember being awake,feeling sleepy and waking up. So over the years ive been very conscious about trying to "monitor" or remember as far up to falling asleep as i can.

It's something that i doubt anyone else here does, but being mildly autistic it's something that amuses me and my brain finds it very interesting.I have managed to fine tune it down to being able to experience dreaming before i guess you would be classed as sleeping. I'm conscious but my brain is in the process of shutting down or falling asleep.

It's actually quite funny, this is how it goes:
my brain is always active, thinking,calculating non stop and often when i go to bed its a time when my brain is most active because the "real life" side of me isnt doing anything so my brain can really work in peace. The following is what tends to happen to me, and the more you fine tune it the more fun it becomes.

So, i'm thinking away, everything is fine and then you get to a certain point. Your thoughts start to get totally jumbled, just like how when you dream you can constantly change location etc many times during a dream. So what happens is that it's almost like your brain closes up for the night and instead of linking your thoughts to the correct images, or the correct words for what you want to say, it seems to get lazy and just throw anything out there, perhaps the very first thing it comes across even slightly connected, meaning you go from one topic to another completely different thing very quickly and easily, as each word you want to say becomes something completely different and so a different image is created.

So what i find happening is that im concentrating on one specific topic and i suddenly "wake up" after a few seconds because i realise that my original thoughts have now turned into a completely different thing to what i was thinking about. At first its like you fell asleep for literally 5-10 seconds, but then my brain realises ive gone completely off topic and i re awake.

the huge problem in training yourself is that it is a very very very fine line to be able to tightrope walk along, because as soon as you become aware that things have changed your brain engages again and the dream is lost as you reawake, the real skill is trying to monitor it in such a way that you can enjoy the experience of the dream and be conscious while it is going on but without recognizing it enough to disrupt it.

Last night was the first time that i really experienced the very moment that things changed and it was actually by mistake. I was thinking about something and i literally hit a point where i wanted to think specific things but what came out in my brain was completely different and i was like "wtf?? i didn't want to think that", but i carried on and the same happened again very soon after, i was still conscious but couldnt control my thoughts to become the words and images i wanted them to be. Itwas just after the 2 experiences that i realised that i had experienced the exact point where your brain gives up for the night and starts its shutdown process.

After that i lied down and was just amused and fascinated by it and i experienced a lot more of the funny things as my brain switched in between shutting down mode and reengaging mode. It's like i was able to walk the tightrope and enjoy the fun of the dream and the crazy stuff my brain was producing without being too awake to re-engage my brain.

The big thing is that i knew i was watching and experiencing the dream, but i was still conscious and able to understand what was going on.

To a lot of you this might seem pointless and i guess im not really going anywhere with this but being mildly autistic i find it absolutely fascinating and very enjoyable and the more i try to do it and train myself to do it the more enjoyment you get out of it as the dream is allowed to progress longer and not be re awakened. You cant do it naturally and maybe no one wants to but what i find fascinating is that i was able to close down the window from being awake>tired>wake up next morning with no other memories, to being able to experience funny dreams while still being conscious. So i guess when people dream just before they wake up it is your brain starting to re engage just in the same way as it de engages when you fall asleep, so its why its quite possible to dream before you sleep , you just have to train yourself over time to be able to experience it

What i find funniest is when you know the word you were thinking of and you know the word that your brain actually produced, its funny to see what words trigger what other totally unrelated words, thats why i enjoy experiencing it, to see what kind of mumbo jumbo dream comes out of the actual topic i was thinking about

I have this "dream state" before sleeping many times actually. And I love it!

It is the most relaxing and creative moment in the day. It also seems that I can control the dream somewhat. Strange but true. I am very aware of everything around me and sometimes it feels as though my eyes are open when they are not. I see the room, hear sounds and it's all so real...but I also know that I'm dreaming.

I'm one of those that can close my eyes for 20 minutes in the day and catch a power nap as well. I experience these dream states at that time also.

Peace

I believe they call it Lucid Dreaming, and I think the technique you are using is called WILD.
short for Wake Induced Lucid Dream.

I've tried doing it many times and I have failed all the time.
A lot of times I don't even remember the dream

Cool. happens to me a lot too I just thought I was just weird.
With me though, its like my brain just won't stop thinking and I'll be thinking away when the words and pictures go off topic.... waayyyy off topic and it often jolts me back wide awake wondering what am I thinking?
never tried to ride it out, have to try that.
WILD, huh? interesting, thanks for the info.

Originally posted by jude11
I have this "dream state" before sleeping many times actually. And I love it!

It is the most relaxing and creative moment in the day. It also seems that I can control the dream somewhat. Strange but true. I am very aware of everything around me and sometimes it feels as though my eyes are open when they are not. I see the room, hear sounds and it's all so real...but I also know that I'm dreaming.

I'm one of those that can close my eyes for 20 minutes in the day and catch a power nap as well. I experience these dream states at that time also.

Peace

wow Jude, thanks for the reply! never thought i'd actually find anyone else, let alone so fast. What i find fascinating is how you say you enjoy it. I myself can't really explain it but i also feel like i really enjoy it, it just feels nice, its a nice experience. The funny thing that actually helped me focus on it more is starting to post on websites like this. When i go to bed i can write huge big long messages in my head to do with a topic thats fascinated me here on ATS. By doing that, it's become easier to notice when things switch up, because you know what the topic is and dont really need to concentrate on what youre writing in your head too much. Last night i was doing the same and im sure one of the words came out crocodile and thats how i noticed it right away , literally a couple of seconds after it happened, because i laughed at myself and thought "where the hell did crocodile come from, im trying to write a serious note here". it then happened again very soon after and i just thought "whats wrong with me tonight" then it hit me that i was experiencing the shut down while still conscious. Like you said, being able to hear or aware of what's around you but still your brain drifts into this middle state between being awake and asleep.

So last night i just remember lying down knowing my brain is broken and finding it funny and as i drifted off to sleep i was just thinking different words and enjyoing what crazy dream came out of thinking completely different words. All good fun and a strangely fascinating experience

Also, yes!! how you say you can almsot control it, thats exactly what im talking about where you try to walk the tightrope. If you try to hard to experience the dream you wake up too much and re engage your brain and you lose the dream. If you dont try to control it you just fall asleep and forget it. Thats one reason i found it so much fun because it was like peeping into a weird world and you really have to be able to hold yourself in a specific mental state to be able to experience for a longer amount of time. If you cant control you only get a tiny peek into it, so i laughed at myself and got frustrated in a fun way every time i woke up and ended the dream, because i really wanted it to carry on

someone told me that's called "hypnagogia"

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by horseplay


YaY another one, im amazed! yes its exactly the same, like i said about ats topics, you know youre thinking a specific thing and at first you kind of suddenly wake up and realise that youve gone wayyyyyyyyyyy off topic without meaning to. its funny, so you have narrowed the window down a lot but you can narrow it down even further, and it will take a while but the key thing is to try and accept that it happens and let it ride, rather than kicking your brain in because whats happening is wrong and off topic, almost try to expect it at some point, so when it happens its easier to let it flow for a bit. to start itll just be a few seconds here and there, but thats the fun of the challenge, how far down the tightrope can you go before waking up or falling asleep?

Same happens to me, thinking about anything before i am falling asleep and then i realise that i am starting to sleep because whatever i am thinking of changes into all kinds of weird stuff. so many random images changing all the time with a series of words impossible to follow.
doesn't work sleeping on my back though, my snoring wakes me immediatly.
i think maybe the side i face when seeping changes what i think of, lying with my right side usually brings up memories or thoughts about memories, lying on my left side and i get all kinds of creative thoughts.

the ability to see the room when near sleep is also cool, its like a personal radar, eyes completely closed and you know they're closed and can kinda see everything, even everything behind you, when it starts happening I realise it right away and have a look around, i thought it was just some weird dream state based on your knowledge of your immediate surroundings.

welcome to the world of lucid dreaming. Ahh whats awesome adventure await you my friend.

Been doing this for years now and its addictive to the max. Who need x box and playstations when you have virtual reality and the most realistic gameplay well ever.

Yes enjoy it. not many people can do it naturally and be careful who you tell. most people look at me like WTF have you been taking lol.

reply to post by listerofsmeg


ive never experienced anything other than the dreaming, i thought that was cool but looking at all the different things that people seem to have experienced i wish i had them too!! some cool things definitely going on, no idea how i would unlock or be able to do anything else though?!

@TiM3LoRd

lol yes, this is the only place i would really share this, i wouldn't waste my time trying to explain it to people i know, they would stop listening after 5 seconds lol.

What i find really fascinating is that i got to this point without having any clue what was going on,so it was like some mad journey, the more you homed in, the more you discovered the more wonderful it became, like a truly hidden gem. its like something that no person would ever think about. How many people think "hmmm when i wake up i have no memory of actually falling asleep, i wonder what happens". It's like theres some tiny little crack that is so hidden that 99% of people will never know it's there, but once you dig deep enough you can slowly try to open it up and experience the amazing things behind it. I laugh at myself in frustration when i wake up quickly and end the dream, being awake while dreaming is just a truly fascinating mad thing.

Originally posted by Equ1nox
reply to post by listerofsmeg

 

lol yes, this is the only place i would really share this, i wouldn't waste my time trying to explain it to people i know, they would stop listening after 5 seconds lol.

What i find really fascinating is that i got to this point without having any clue what was going on,so it was like some mad journey, the more you homed in, the more you discovered the more wonderful it became, like a truly hidden gem. its like something that no person would ever think about. How many people think "hmmm when i wake up i have no memory of actually falling asleep, i wonder what happens". It's like theres some tiny little crack that is so hidden that 99% of people will never know it's there, but once you dig deep enough you can slowly try to open it up and experience the amazing things behind it. I laugh at myself in frustration when i wake up quickly and end the dream, being awake while dreaming is just a truly fascinating mad thing.

edit on 4-1-2012 by Equ1nox because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-1-2012 by Equ1nox because: (no reason given)

You have no idea how much i understand what you mean. That sliver of reality between awake and asleep is as infinite as the reality we know now. I too came across this ability by accident. Been doing it since i was a kid. Nobody understands unless they have experienced it themselves. It is truly mind blowing and amazing the power of the mind. Keep doing what your doing.

Originally posted by TiM3LoRd


Yes enjoy it. not many people can do it naturally and be careful who you tell. most people look at me like WTF have you been taking lol.

haha that is so true. You try to explain to people what a lucid dream is and they look at you like you are totally nuts. To the OP i have had experiences where i know i am dreaming but i can still feel myself laying in my bed and can still hear things in my room such as the clock ticking or my brother snoring. It is very fascinating like you said though once i make the connection i usually wake up shortly after. I'm gunna have to focus on staying asleep once i make the connection. Lucid dreaming has never been a problem for me its just that fine line when i first fall asleep but can still physically feel myself in my bed. Cool topic

thanks to all reply's, should have known ATS would have results. The 3 big "progressions" i had in trying to experience it were as follows:
1) almost expect it to happen, the sudden re awakening is because your brain is saying "hang on something isn't right" , the sudden realisation engages your brain too much, so i made myself aware that it was going to happen and not to worry about it, this seems to have lessened the reaction when your brain notices it, so its not such an awakening shock.i still re awake all the time but its much "smoother" now that i am used to the process

2) i always tried to go back to the thing i was thinking about which woke me up too much and stopped the whole thing because i really had to think to get back to where i was. What happened the other night is that i'd gone so far into my thoughts that i didnt bother to try and go back and just started thinking about something else, this meant i didnt engage my brain too much and i went in and out of this state quite freely as i accepted that my brain was going to sleep and just thought about other random things, i didnt try to force myself back onto the thinking path that i was on before, if you just let your brain continue as normal its easier to go back from the awake >semi awake phase.

3) Don't think about anything that requires a lot of thought, think about something that is already stuck in your brain, the replies to ATS threads works so well for me as its a natural flow of info coming from my brain, i dont really need to think hard about replies because all the info is in my head already. calculating,looking for answers,trying to think about things your brain doesnt know 100% is too engaging as you are asking your brain to come up wth answers. I'm sure you all know that sometimes when you think about things youre very familiar with it just flow. It's like when you daydream, you zone out and lose the "consciousness" as your brain takes over and you seem to disengage from everything around you as your natural thoughts take over, your brain doesnt need to calculate or think hard. So i think the real key to experience this for longer is to be able to get your brain into the daydream state as you are falling asleep, your brain doesnt have to work on normal things so starts to shut down, but the part of your brain that lets you daydream during the day still works, the funny bit is when you try to get your daydream thoughts out, the translation goes a bit wrong when going from one part of the brain to the other. I was literally lying in bed thinking "wow i just experienced that," i was so happy, and as i started to think more about what had happened it happened again, and that made me laugh because it was like i wasnt able to think about anything for more than a few seconds before that part of my brain started to sleep again, so i was going round in circles, every time i noticed it had happened i was laughing to myself in my head and as i thought about it it happened again lol.

So if it happens to you and you wake up try to just smile and "note" the experience in your mind, and as you go back to sleep just think about something else that would make you daydream,anything that really genuinely interests you,something you could talk about for ages if someone asked you without even needing to think about it.. You may well get to the point where your brain says "look im going to sleep ok, if you want to keep daydreaming then go for it, but dont expect proper answers from me, i'll throw out whatever i can come up with that even links in any tiny way in your brain." So i was lucky in that i was able to enjoy it for a couple of minutes before i fell asleep because i just seemed to accept that it was happening and didnt try to think too hard about anything, i almost just thought random thoughts to see what funny things my brain changed them into. The whole wonder of the experience is already in my head, i've thought about it so many times, so i ended up in circles because thinking about enjoying the experience put me back into daydream mode very quickly.

The hardest thing that i am trying to do is to be able to let the dream go on and not wake up from it, what happened the other night was really being able to enjoy the exact moment your brain moves from one state to another, but actually maintaining that state for a period of time is what im really trying to do now, see how long i stay conscious for without reawakening even just a little bit so that i can enjoy the madness and randomness of the dream, see what wild story emerges.

All good fun, i'll have to read a bit more and see if there are techniques that i could try to try and experience any different things.

Originally posted by OmegaOwl
I believe they call it Lucid Dreaming, and I think the technique you are using is called WILD.
short for Wake Induced Lucid Dream.

I've tried doing it many times and I have failed all the time.
A lot of times I don't even remember the dream

edit on 4-1-2012 by OmegaOwl because: (no reason given)

you are right it is called a WILD it is hard to do , i have only done it once but it was nuts. going from a conscious state right into a dream state is pretty cool