Piggies are friends NOT FOOD!

Originally posted by UnlimitedSky
Eating meat does numb the senses. It makes one incompassionate and hard. No two ways about it.

Do you have any evidence for this? What you're saying doesn't even make rational sense. Most vegetarians were once meat eaters, if their diet of meat made them uncompassionate and hard then how did they come to be vegetarians in the first place? They must have been compassionate, or they wouldn't have considered vegetarianism in the first place. Simple logic.

Post you a picture of a human with blood all over their face, raw meat hanging out the mouth. This one I put next to a beautiful man sitting in a fruit orchard eating a peach. CAN you see, no, can you feel the difference these two images provoke? No??? Wow, still comfortably numb.

That's entirely subjective. You also neglect to acknowledge that for many in the world eating meat is a requirement. Many small tribes and peoples living in certain regions NEED meat. Your argument sounds very euro centric and racist. You are privileged, you've been afforded a choice, many don't have it.

Original, true Buddhists did not eat meat. So yes, why not go and tell those 'monks'.

Lying now, are we? Original Buddhists did eat meat and many great Buddhists still do eat meat. Vegetarianism has nothing to do with Buddhism. The Buddha himself was a "flexitarian"

Do you know what you yourself sound like? A fence sitter. Also extremely condescending. You wage war with vegetarians, and females in particular. 'Fussy eaters'? Wow! And you say you don't condemn????? Good one.

How can I be a fence sitter, I'm a vegetarian! Just because I refuse to join your cult of egotism doesn't make me a fence sitter. Because I'm not readily prepared to condemn people as sub-human for their diet, does that make me a fence sitter? I'm a fence sitting vegetarian, that's a good one, how does it work though?

I wage war with foolish little girls like yourself who think abstaining from meat makes you some sort of evolved being. Female vegetarians I mention in particular because you are by far the most irrational and silly of all the vegetarians. You probably have some sort of gaia art on your wall and believe you can read palms

If you want to kick up a fuss about fence sitters why not call out your friend OfHumanDescent on her belief that it's okay to bludgeon reptiles to death because they're "evil".

A list of famous vegetarians. And if you are educated you should recognize each name because I have only listed the most famous of the famous.

Source: en.wikipedia.org...
Albert Einstein
Confucius
Aristotle
Plato
Pythagoras of Samos
Socrates
Theophrastus
Paul Carton
Philippe Hecquet
Voltaire
Gautama Buddha
M.K.Gandhi
Krishna
George Bernard Shaw
Leonardo Da Vinci
Sir Isaac Newton
Jane Goodall
George Harrison
Sir Paul McCartney
Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley
H. G. Wells
Scott Adams
Louisa May Alcott
William Andrus Alcott
Johnny Appleseed
Isadora Duncan
Benjamin Franklin
John Harvey Kellogg
Reuben D. Mussey
Natalie Portman
Jake Shields
Grace Slick
Nikola Tesla
Jamie Thomas
Henry David Thoreau
Ralph Waldo Trine
Jacque Vaughn
Herschel Walker
Bill Walton
Pamela Anderson
Killer Kowalsk
Donny Lalonde
Silken Laumann
Jayde Nicole
Shania Twain
14th Dalai Lama
She'ar Yashuv Cohen
Rabbi David Cohen
Shlomo Goren
Antonio Cocchi
Fausto Coppi
Martin van Hees
Aad Stelylen
Maarten Tjallingii
Mellie Uyldert
João Bentes Castel-Branco
Pedro Indíveri
Vasques Homem
Elvis Costello
Robert Parish
Bill Pearl

The three videos below (there are four more) State that eating meat is unhealthy, ruining our planet and wasteful.

The premise of these videos is that we could feed everyone if we all stopped eating meat. Agreeing with Laszlo,

Part 1 of 7

Part 2 of 7

Part 3 of 7

The rest can be found here: www.youtube.com... at SupremeMasterTV

It takes three to four times (or more because I took care of cows, sheep and chickens myself) of grain to feed them than a human so in other words for every cow, pig, sheep you could feed a whole mass of people with the grain you feed a livestock.

Also, the meat you are buying now, is not healthy - It doesn't taste anything like our cows, sheep, chickens or geese - ours never got shots and were free range with big clean barns. (Barns MUST be cleaned every day. They don't do that with factory farming, that's why you're all getting these weird diseases.

Lastly, yes I've seen a cow stand over it's still born calf and cry...............they do have consciousness and while they can't do algebra, they also don't make atomic bombs.

Source for videos: www.youtube.com...

In this video and in my research the number one pollution of our earth is the sheer number of live stock we are raising. It's economically and ecology wise insane for the number of people that now inhabit our planet.

With all the flaming and rude remarks.......I'm in good company.

And remember, Karma is a bitch only if you are.

You are what you eat video - and these folks proved it.



I've tried veggie burgers, sausages and a whole range of really good food that is vegetarian........it's no longer hard to be one.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
The three videos below (there are four more) State that eating meat is unhealthy, ruining our planet and wasteful.

Eating meat is not unhealthy, and that's just one of the reasons nobody takes so many vegetarians seriously. Why do "experts" need to lie and deny scientific fact?

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
It takes three to four times (or more because I took care of cows, sheep and chickens myself) of grain to feed them than a human so in other words for every cow, pig, sheep you could feed a whole mass of people with the grain you feed a livestock.

If everyone was a vegetarian tomorrow it would have devastating effect, the planet would be ruined. The future of vegetarianism is not destroying rain forests for grain, it's in meat that you manufacture in a lab.

Also not all land is usable. There's many terrains and regions where animals are far more eco-friendly and economical.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
In this video and in my research the number one pollution of our earth is the sheer number of live stock we are raising. It's economically and ecology wise insane for the number of people that now inhabit our planet.

It's the way in which the livestock are raised, not that they exist. Their unnatural diet of grain is the main problem. You could feed the planet meat while being eco friendly, I'm sure if you have a farm you know there's many planet-friendly alternatives. In many cases livestock can even help the environment thrive.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
I've tried veggie burgers, sausages and a whole range of really good food that is vegetarian........it's no longer hard to be one.

Much of your videos are propaganda, why are you making such silly and immature arguments for vegetarianism when you can make logically and morally concise arguments? Why are you posting videos of new-age female hippy kooks when you could be presenting argument from rational people?

Many fake meat products are also very unhealthy, especially soy products, they have feminising effects. If you're a male vegetarian you should avoid soy unless you want yourself or your future children to become lardy-dardy boys Women should also avoid soy if they want children

It's this religious like commitment to vegetarianism that really annoys me. Why do you feel the need to lie and say meat is unhealthy, why do you feel the need to deny that fish is wonderful for your brain, that soy products are dangerous, that many vegetarians also harm the planet to stupid levels by insisting on eating foreign produce?

Why can't you be a vegetarian while accepting that there's some pros to meat eating just as there are some cons to vegetarianism?

They are cute little buggers, but I love me some bacon hmmmm...


I don't eat a lot of meat but when i do I enjoy it, it's called the food chain.

Originally posted by JessopJessopJessop
Where growing mushrooms in a shed is far less morally abhorrent than keeping chickens, for example, locked up in a factory farm.

Originally posted by JessopJessopJessop
There's nothing morally abhorrent in eating plants.

Forgetting what you said? I wouldn't have pointed this out, but I was trying to make a point based on it, then you apparently forgot what you just wrote. Unless you want to debate about the scientific classification of mushrooms?

Originally posted by JessopJessopJessop
Then you aren't thinking hard enough.
...
To paint eating a potato as being on par with eating a pig is just lunacy.
...
Well yes, I guess I do think meat eaters are more evil than vegetarians generally and by definition of the word evil. That's not to say eating meat is evil, but vegetarianism is certainly the more moral position.
...
Do I think I'm better than you? I do now, but it has nothing to do with your diet, let me tell you.
...
Your inferiority complex has nothing to do with me.
...
I haven't bloody shunned anyone.

Like I said, bigotry. Not eating meat makes you feel better than other people, whether you consciously realize it or not. Though to your credit at least you can hold a conversation for a few posts without calling me sub-human like the other genius wonders in this thread.

Originally posted by JessopJessopJessop
You seem to be trying to slander me some sort of egotist

If it quacks...

Of course though, everything I say is wrong and everything you say makes perfect sense. Your the one trying to throw politically correct insults at me, geez never seen that before.

Originally posted by JessopJessopJessop
But it's what I've come to expect on ATS and in life - you make rational arguments and you're attacked by extremists on both sides.

I guess I'm also an extremist now, just go ahead and take the next step and call me a terrorist or something. Or was this your subversive way of calling me an extremist with the option for denial, in that you were talking about "ATS", not me.

But wait, there's even more!

Originally posted by JessopJessopJessop
Your inferiority complex has nothing to do with me.

It appears I also have an inferiority complex! You must be one hell of a poker player or psychologist if you got such a thing from only this:

Originally posted by RSF77
You hold a very particular idea of morality that allows you to feel like you are somehow better than everyone who eats meat

So... according to you I'm an evil meat eating lunatic and a slandering extremist with an inferiority complex and you are better than me?

Bigotry, look it up if you have to, that's you buddy, I called it already and you gave me proof. Also, and this is quite ironic, you might have an inferiority complex.

Originally posted by RSF77
Forgetting what you said? I wouldn't have pointed this out, but I was trying to make a point based on it, then you apparently forgot what you just wrote. Unless you want to debate about the scientific classification of mushrooms?

There's nothing contradictory in the 2 statements you quote. I think you've forgotten how to read.

Originally posted by RSF77
Like I said, bigotry. Not eating meat makes you feel better than other people, whether you consciously realize it or not. Though to your credit at least you can hold a conversation for a few posts without calling me sub-human like the other genius wonders in this thread.

You don't even know what the word bigotry means. "A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs.". Believing that abstaining from meat is the ethical thing to do is not bigotry.

Also lets suppose for a moment that you're right, that I believe not eating meat makes me a better person than someone who does, in much the same way as someone pro-abortion might feel their position and by extension they are better than someone who's anti-abortion, or someone anti-circumcision might think their position and by extension they are better than people who are pro-circumcision... Lets say that's true for arguments sake -- what of it? Sounds like fundamental human nature to me.

Originally posted by RSF77
Of course though, everything I say is wrong and everything you say makes perfect sense. Your the one trying to throw politically correct insults at me, geez never seen that before.

My argument on this subject is better than yours, yes. Of course I think I'm right, what a stupid thing to say! If I didn't think I was right and you wrong, we wouldn't be having this discussion - I'm sure the opposite is also true.

And what on earth is a politically correct insult?

Originally posted by RSF77
I guess I'm also an extremist now, just go ahead and take the next step and call me a terrorist or something. Or was this your subversive way of calling me an extremist with the option for denial, in that you were talking about "ATS", not me.

I was talking about you, I thought I made it clear enough. Your position is extreme. You cannot hold rational debate on the subject of vegetarianism and the morality of choosing to eat meat, so instead you close your eyes and shout "LALLALALALALALLA", making juvenile and incredibly silly arguments in the process.

Your attempted arguments are so bad that I do not know whether to laugh or cry. Perhaps you leave the thread and I argue with myself? I'm sure I could argue your position much more adequately than you've managed - what with your insistence upon character attacks and fallacious arguments.

It appears I also have an inferiority complex! You must be one hell of a poker player or psychologist if you got such a thing from only this:

Seems quite clear to me. I've said nothing to you, I hadn't derided your or your opinion, in fact I go out of my way to be nice as I see you're unstable, yet you slander me as some sort of militant vegetarian bigot. The only conclusion I can draw is that you're intimidated and threatened by what I choose to eat. Why else would you get so angry and aggressive at me for daring to not consume meat?

So... according to you I'm an evil meat eating lunatic and a slandering extremist with an inferiority complex and you are better than me?

Why do you keep putting words into my mouth? I haven't used the word evil and wouldn't use the word evil because I don't see the point in using emotive buzz words for the sake of using them.

You aren't a meat eating lunatic, you're a lunatic that happens to eat meat. I imagine on any diet you'd still be a lunatic!

Bigotry, look it up if you have to, that's you buddy, I called it already and you gave me proof. Also, and this is quite ironic, you might have an inferiority complex.

Looked it up and quoted it for you. Perhaps you should take another look. Better still, perhaps you visit the chat room and find a meat eater who can form rational arguments, if you had corner men they'd be falling over themselves looking for the white towel.

Have you been fed a diet of Chumbawamba CD's? Stay down!

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
A list of famous vegetarians. And if you are educated you should recognize each name because I have only listed the most famous of the famous.

Source: en.wikipedia.org...
Albert Einstein
Confucius
Aristotle
Plato
Pythagoras of Samos
Socrates
Theophrastus
Paul Carton
Philippe Hecquet
Voltaire
Gautama Buddha
M.K.Gandhi
Krishna
George Bernard Shaw
Leonardo Da Vinci
Sir Isaac Newton
Jane Goodall
George Harrison
Sir Paul McCartney
Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley
H. G. Wells
Scott Adams
Louisa May Alcott
William Andrus Alcott
Johnny Appleseed
Isadora Duncan
Benjamin Franklin
John Harvey Kellogg
Reuben D. Mussey
Natalie Portman
Jake Shields
Grace Slick
Nikola Tesla
Jamie Thomas
Henry David Thoreau
Ralph Waldo Trine
Jacque Vaughn
Herschel Walker
Bill Walton
Pamela Anderson
Killer Kowalsk

Donny Lalonde
Silken Laumann
Jayde Nicole
Shania Twain
14th Dalai Lama
She'ar Yashuv Cohen
Rabbi David Cohen
Shlomo Goren
Antonio Cocchi
Fausto Coppi
Martin van Hees
Aad Stelylen
Maarten Tjallingii
Mellie Uyldert
João Bentes Castel-Branco
Pedro Indíveri
Vasques Homem
Elvis Costello
Robert Parish
Bill Pearl

WOW!!! C, what a list you got there! Excellent work!

Even Nicola Tesla, Leonardo Da Vinci, Sir Isaac Newton etc!
Why am I surprised? I really should not be. Naturally they were vegetarians. It is the clever choice.

I think some argue simply because they think their palettes will be deprived if they give up eating meat. Weakness.

reply to post by ofhumandescent


ok, now make a similar list for the ones that do eat meat... bet its longer

reply to post by ofhumandescent


Explanation: At the risk of invoking Goodwins law .. You FORGOT to INCLUDE HITLER!

Personal Disclosure: And If we stop eating animal products then the current numbers of farmed animals will be RADICALLY reduced by culling them anyway. The animals will still be killed ... just not replaced!

The entire globe becoming vegetarian does not stop the slaughter in the short term and in fact may actually increase the slaughter in the short term to garantee enough grain for us all to eat! It is not a bloodless choice ok! And since it is SOCIETIES problem and you partake in society your hands will be just as bloody as mine ok!

I haven't had meat (apart from fish) for years, and the last time I had a steak as an experiment, it was a huge disappointment.

However, I do realize that my diet takes a lot of different farmers, and some complex organizing.
So in a SHTF situation I wouldn't be dogmatic about diet - if you can kill a pig, or even a dog or a cat for food, it is your duty.
Besides, all those animals are already being eaten, and cat and dog meat is sold from the USA:
www.care2.com...

Apart from the horrors of factory farming, and the over-use of meat, I actually think it's not all that bad.
Our relationship with farm animals is not one-sided, and it has been mutually beneficial.
Pigs, cows and sheep have done well as species in their relationship with mankind.
Unlike rhinos and tigers they're not going to go extinct any time soon.

Before recent modernity the relationship was very close: People in Europe shared their houses with livestock in winter, and in New Guinea women suckled piglets.

In a SHTF situation hunger would drive me to eat a lot of things.

Yesterday I saw a clip by some Korean woman who claimed Jesus gave her a tour of hell.
Then she painted a series of pictures of what she supposedly saw, and this material is positively psychopathic.
In two pictures she shows people covered in large maggots.

However not all cultures may find the concept hellish, since maggots are a staple source of protein and a delicacy in aboriginal cultures.

Originally posted by halfoldman
I haven't had meat (apart from fish) for years, and the last time I had a steak as an experiment, it was a huge disappointment.

However, I do realize that my diet takes a lot of different farmers, and some complex organizing.
So in a SHTF situation I wouldn't be dogmatic about diet - if you can kill a pig, or even a dog or a cat for food, it is your duty.
Besides, all those animals are already being eaten, and cat and dog meat is sold from the USA:
www.care2.com...

Apart from the horrors of factory farming, and the over-use of meat, I actually think it's not all that bad.
Our relationship with farm animals is not one-sided, and it has been mutually beneficial.
Pigs, cows and sheep have done well as species in their relationship with mankind.
Unlike rhinos and tigers they're not going to go extinct any time soon.

Before recent modernity the relationship was very close: People in Europe shared their houses with livestock in winter, and in New Guinea women suckled piglets.

In a SHTF situation hunger would drive me to eat a lot of things.

Yesterday I saw a clip by some Korean woman who claimed Jesus gave her a tour of hell.
Then she painted a series of pictures of what she supposedly saw, and this material is positively psychopathic.
In two pictures she shows people covered in large maggots.

However not all cultures may find the concept hellish, since maggots are a staple source of protein and a delicacy in aboriginal cultures.

edit on 4-1-2012 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)

And great for fishing, seeing as you mentioned fish. Got to warm them up under the tongue first though, mind

Bacon makes everything better. You can put it on just about anything. Hambergers, pizza, salad, steak, and I have seen chocolate covered bacon.

reply to post by DaveNorris


it [ the list ] is EVERYONE not on the list of vegetarians

baconIf this don't want you to have bacon then nothing will!

reply to post by OmegaLogos


Hitler was reputed.

In one diary of a SS Soldier I read years ago, Hitler enjoyed a steak, medium rare with him and red wine.

Originally posted by JessopJessopJessop

Originally posted by RSF77
Forgetting what you said? I wouldn't have pointed this out, but I was trying to make a point based on it, then you apparently forgot what you just wrote. Unless you want to debate about the scientific classification of mushrooms?

There's nothing contradictory in the 2 statements you quote. I think you've forgotten how to read.

Wow.

Originally posted by JessopJessopJessop
growing mushrooms in a shed is far less morally abhorrent than keeping chickens

Originally posted by JessopJessopJessop
There's nothing morally abhorrent in eating plants.

You really don't understand how that's contradictory? I guess I could point it out over and over again in plain English and nothing would change, it appears your language is doublespeak.

I won't bother replying to the rest of that. Here's the simple point I was getting at if you even care or even read it before.

Originally posted by RSF77
What exactly does that change? By your own words eating a plant is morally abhorrent, if only to a different degree than an animal. If you try hard enough you could find something morally abhorrent about any action you take, so why are you using such a particular definition of morality to determine something as simple as whether to eat exclusively plants or eat animals as well?

Enjoy your lifestyle of self promotion while the majority of the rest of us eat meat. Later.