Kerry the reluctant hero?

It appears the Cheney was not alone in trying to get a deferment. Kerry wrote to his local recruitment board seeking permission to spend a further 12 months studying in Paris, after completing his degree course at Yale University in the mid-1960s. His deferment was denied.

www.telegraph.co.uk.../news/2004/03/07/wkerr07.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/03/07/ixnewstop.html

Denied like most Americans? That's a shame.

He should have made up imaginary dependents like Cheney did or pulled strings like Bush and got into the Guard. Then maybe he'd have the right to prance around like a chickenhawk and use the military as photo op backdrops while questioning the patriotism of men who actually went to Vietnam like McCain and Kerry.

He should of pulled out the old boil on the butt trick! Why didn't he just join the National Guard if he didn't want to go? Oh yeah, it was really, really, hard to get into the NG, unless you knew someone, of course.

Originally posted by RANT
Denied like most Americans? That's a shame.

He should have made up imaginary dependents like Cheney did or pulled strings like Bush and got into the Guard.

You know, I really have to laugh when I see statements like this. Draft evasion during the Vietnam era was rampant. I remember when they did away with the marriage deferment, there were couples lined up around the block at churches and justices-of-the peace all over the country in order to get married before the deferment deadline.

There were many ways to evade the draft. One was to enlist, which is what I did at seventeen. One was to wait until you got your number or draft notice and volunteer, so as to choose your service. There were school deferments, hardship deferments, physical deferments, like the skiing Howard Dean got. You could join the Guard or the Reserves. One could do alternative service in the Peace Corps or VISA.

Then there was Vietnam evasion. There were a lot of ways to keep from going to Vietnam or at least, reducing the likelihood. One could join the Guard or Reserves and the likelihood of having to go to the Nam became very low, though not zero. One could join the US Navy. There weren't that many sailors on the ground in Vietnam. Most were Medical Corpsmen attached the USMC. There were the SEALS, a very small outfit and the Riverine Patrols such as Kerry's unit.

There was the Air Force and the Coast Guard. Most non-pilots, even if they went to Vietnam were stationed in relatively safe areas and never ventured into combat zones and the Air Force is so large, with so many bases around the world, there was just a very small chance that one would be assigned to Vietnam to begin with. I have heard of some Coast Guardsmen in Vietnam, but nothing I could substantiate.

Even in the Army, only the ground combat and support MOSs had a high probablity of going to Vietnam. Many signed contracts to get them MOSs that would preclude their assignment to Vietnam.

Even I had to volunteer to go to Vietnam because through some wierd set of circumstances I landed an extremely "cushy" job after artillery school that almost guaranteed that I would never go to Vietnam. I didn't want the job, but was given no choice and had to raise considerable heck up the chain of command before I was given orders to go. A decision I will never regret.

Then there was out-right draft-dodging on the order of what Clinton did in order to avoid service all together and of course there was running to Canada or Sweden when your draft notice came.

Of all the men who came of age during the Vietnam era and of all the men who were of an age appropriate for military service during the Vietnam era, only about 1.3 million actually set foot in Vietnam. By some estimates, only about 14% of those actually saw heavy combat.

John Kerry is to be commended for his service, even if he was denied a deferment. He is to be commended for his having volunteered for duty in-country. He is to be commended for his valor and his wounds .

What he can never be forgiven for is what he did when he came home from the war. There is no justification for his actions and they negate everything he might have done that was laudable.

If the generation who served in WWII are rightly to be called "The Greatest Generation" and I have my doubts about that, then, most certainly my generation can be rightly called "The Most Cowardly Generation."




[edit on 04/9/9 by GradyPhilpott]

Well.....atleast he's better than bush

Who's going to vote for him?
(but I think bush will win )

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

What he can never be forgiven for is what he did when he came home from the war. There is no justification for his actions and they negate everything he might have done that was laudable.

If the generation who served in WWII are rightly to be called "The Greatest Generation" and I have my doubts about that, then, most certainly my generation can be rightly called "The Most Cowardly Generation."

[edit on 04/9/9 by GradyPhilpott]

You obviously have a very stong feelign about Kerrys action after the war.. If i may ask.. becasue everythign I have read has been that he went infront of a commity and spoke on behalf of a number of soldiers who saw or participated in atrocities. Why is he considered a traitor for coming out and telling the truth about what was going on? Then he went to Paris to join in debates about how to end the conflict.

maybe I am just missing information.

Wraith

Originally posted by wraith30
Why is he considered a traitor for coming out and telling the truth about what was going on? Then he went to Paris to join in debates about how to end the conflict.

I have banged my fingers blue typing responses to this question and typing links to sites that tell this story. If you refer to my previous posts I am sure you will find the answers.

Briefly, John Kerry participated in a conference of frauds who gave testimony that they had committed atrocities on a daily basis in Vietnam. He went before congress and testified under oath to these lies and further smeared the American servicemen. He went on television and admitted to committing atrocities himself, while describing actions that were not atrocities to take advantage of a gullible public and to avoid self incremination.

John Kerry is a brilliant manipulator and self promoter and he has done it on the backs of this fellow servicemen. He is not to be trusted because he will sell out anyone to further his political ambitions.

Do the research yourself, but you'll have to wade through the lies to find the truth. If you research my posts on this topic, you will find links to sites that give an accurate accounting of the truth.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

I have banged my fingers blue typing responses to this question and typing links to sites that tell this story. If you refer to my previous posts I am sure you will find the answers.

Briefly, John Kerry participated in a conference of frauds who gave testimony that they had committed atrocities on a daily basis in Vietnam. He went before congress and testified under oath to these lies and further smeared the American servicemen. He went on television and admitted to committing atrocities himself, while describing actions that were not atrocities to take advantage of a gullible public and to avoid self incremination.

A conferance of frauds? How do you know thay are frauds? Are you saying that these thigns did not happen in VN? He testified under oath that these are the things that were reported to him by people in that conference, I have read the transcript of that hearing a few times. Kerry simply states his objection to the continuation ofthe war and relays the actions of other soldiers.

I have however never seen a transcrip of Kerry admitting that he himself did these things. If it is there I would like to see it.

John Kerry is a brilliant manipulator and self promoter and he has done it on the backs of this fellow servicemen. He is not to be trusted because he will sell out anyone to further his political ambitions.

You have to be honest here.. you can add any prominant politicinas name at the start of that comment and it would be correct.

Do the research yourself, but you'll have to wade through the lies to find the truth. If you research my posts on this topic, you will find links to sites that give an accurate accounting of the truth.

"accurate accounting" is a bit of a slippery statement. Like you said you have to wade through the lies and more importantly you have to get therough the half truths. Most of the articals posted are editorials and are full of partial comments, out of context quotes and flat out BS.

I have yet to find a truely credible report that Kerry betrayed the country. He said things that upset many people no doubt. It seems to me that 2 things tend to outrage people so much... a lie... and the truth. Anythign inbetween the two are often discounted and forgotten.

Wraith

Okay, Wraith.

I said I had beaten my fingers blue documenting everything I've said. I'm not going to keep doing it just because someone comes out of the woodwork to play the deconstruction game with me.

Deny ignorance. Study the truth for yourself. You might also listen to someone who's been around long enough to remember the incidents in question, but why make it any easier?

in the past two days so many documents surfaced showing the extent of the fraud in the Bush'd service record. He blew off his medical exam (no excuse for a fighter pilot), and was suspended.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Deny ignorance. Study the truth for yourself. You might also listen to someone who's been around long enough to remember the incidents in question, but why make it any easier?

Your right I should ask the direct opinion of somone who was there instead of wading through the swamp of BS spinout editorials and manipulted media.. ohh wait.. I just did didn't I? I have asked the opinions of a number of vets and due to the fact that there is such a differance of opinions about his testimony and diplomatic ventures tells me that there is very little if any true evidence that Kerry betrayed the vets. Maybe it is just that some vets are pissed that he was willing to discuss the horrible things that some vets did do over there. Things that they don't want to admit that they did.

wraith