Spokesman Disorder ...

This is not to argue whether god exists or not but to address those who feel it is their duty to speak for god. To me it is those who are seeking self value and thus undertake this duty as their responsibility because in reality a god would not need to have humans speak for him. Let god speak for himself, let him reveal himself instead of trying to convince people to see something universal as the way you see it.

reply to post by Ralphy


it is because those are their marching orders....

Matthew 28:18-20

New International Version (NIV)

18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

The problem that comes up is that when you have so many spokesmen is that you get many different interpretations.

Who knows maybe god is trying to get a word in but people won't stop talking long enough to listen.

reply to post by Ralphy


You have a logic fail in your premise. Yes, God chooses to work through us, but because God chooses to do so doesn't mean He is bound to or required to do so. He chooses to work through His creation. He does not do so out of need but out of desire.

Originally posted by Ralphy
The problem that comes up is that when you have so many spokesmen is that you get many different interpretations.

Who knows maybe god is trying to get a word in but people won't stop talking long enough to listen.

Perhaps he should have said
"go forth my children, and remember I gave you TWO ears, yet only one mouth."

reply to post by NOTurTypical


God working through people would maybe seem logical if everyone was on the same page but that is not the case in the world. People personalize god then try to spread on their version of god.

Originally posted by Ralphy
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

God working through people would maybe seem logical if everyone was on the same page but that is not the case in the world. People personalize god then try to spread on their version of god.

You're not considering this is how things appear after the fall. Where you have a super angel actively working against everything God creates, wills, or accomplishes. Besides that it's irrelevant to God. He might speak to Sally today, Deborah next Thursday and so on and so on and not bothering with what the religious people are running around claiming He told them.

Originally posted by CaDreamer
reply to post by Ralphy

 

it is because those are their marching orders....

Matthew 28:18-20

New International Version (NIV)

18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

These are the marching orders indeed.

By these marching orders you can know who is carrying out Christ's will.

They will be the one's DOING what he commanded.

With Love,

Your Brother

There is a problem with the Matthew scripture. It is not defined in the context of talking to us, those words jesus spoke were to his disciples. People then could make the claim that they themselves are disciples too but that is going out a limb of one's own self judgment.

Originally posted by Ralphy
People then could make the claim that they themselves are disciples too but that is going out a limb of one's own self judgment.

No it isn't.

A disciple is a student of a master. The student must choose the master and the master must agree to take on the student.

It is merely a relationship, not a judgement.

Christ already agreed to be the spiritual master to anyone who came to him and did as he commanded.

A disciple doesn't need to tell the world he is a disciple. That is between him and Christ.

You can know them by the fruit of their works though.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


How does one know if there is a mutual agreement between the student and master? Although jesus said all are welcome, not all will enter into the kingdom of god. In the book of zephaniah(2:3) it says that you will maybe be saved, or another word used is "perhaps." Also jesus himself said the road to life is narrow; so for so many to assume this mutual agreement exists is not probable considering the few people that will actually enter into the kingdom of god.

Originally posted by Ralphy
There is a problem with the Matthew scripture. It is not defined in the context of talking to us, those words jesus spoke were to his disciples. People then could make the claim that they themselves are disciples too but that is going out a limb of one's own self judgment.

are not all Christians Disciples of Christ?

A disciple is a follower and student of a mentor, teacher, or other wise figure.

by calling oneself "Christian" a person is claiming discipleship.

reply to post by CaDreamer


Just because someone calls them self a disciple doesn't mean that jesus sees them as one. So no, not everyone who says they are a disciple is actually a disciple of christ. I can say I'm a millionaire all I want but that doesn't mean I actually am one.

Originally posted by Ralphy
How does one know if there is a mutual agreement between the student and master?

There is mutual agreement IF you do what the Master says.

If not, you are learning from a different master.

Others will know the difference by the fruits you bring into this world.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by Ralphy
This is not to argue whether god exists or not but to address those who feel it is their duty to speak for god. To me it is those who are seeking self value and thus undertake this duty as their responsibility because in reality a god would not need to have humans speak for him. Let god speak for himself, let him reveal himself instead of trying to convince people to see something universal as the way you see it.

Many spokesmen are required. This serves three purposes.

1) Truth is infinite. One parable in the Bible has many perspectives and no one value for all. Infinity is holographic and requires many eyes, ears and mouths to reveal the many perspectives. We only see paradox when the excluded middle is unknown. With the proper perspective, universal truths become self-evident. For every spokesman who gets it incorrect, there is another to set it straight. We are here to learn by doing. We hear, see and do for our education. Seeing the incorrect perspective is as valuable as seeing the correct perspective. All truth is already inside us to be rerevealed.

2) God charges us with the task of looking after the earth by our free will. We toil on the earth to gain the fruit of knowledge, finally reaching the tree of life. God does not do this for us, but gives us the fruit when earned. The fruit was intended to be a gift, but we fell. It is always a gift, despite the fact that we hold fast to our fallen nature.

3) Truth is to be defended and loved. Philo Sophia is the Love of Wisdom. We are to gain union with wisdom in the same manner all unions occur. Love is the pursuit of what is gained. Wisdom embraces us when our pride against God is gone. This happens on the path of learning as we are consumed by the flaming sword. This is the consuming fire of God that cuts away our ignorance and pride by experience in the wilderness.

The fact that we are correct or incorrect is not nearly as important as the heart and love we express back to God along the way. He is the Good Shepherd leading us. Developing our faith is His job. Finding truth is ours.

Originally posted by Ralphy
There is a problem with the Matthew scripture. It is not defined in the context of talking to us, those words jesus spoke were to his disciples. People then could make the claim that they themselves are disciples too but that is going out a limb of one's own self judgment.

All who follow Jesus and his life, ways and path are his disciples. The objective is to grow spiritually so that we do not stay spiritual infants, unable to defend ourselves and unable to adequately follow his commands. We start as being new christians as novice disciples but as we grow and learn we move up to becoming apostles and going out to spread the word.