The only surface image of Titan, a Saturn moon.

Originally posted by blocula
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

 

According to this link,its too cold on titan for methane to exist,its 290 below zero!,but theres acetylene, ethylene,ethane and maybe hydrogen cyanide... How is that probe able to function at those low temperatures? www.solarviews.com...

edit on 20-12-2011 by blocula because: (no reason given)

Like all space probes launched to the outer solar system, radioisotope thermoelectric generators or RTGs, which use heat from the natural decay of plutonium to generate direct current electricity. Solar power out to Saturn was out of the question, the solar arrays would have to be too large to launch.

Here's a more indepth link than the ESA home for the instraments and power source of the Cassini-Huygens spacecrafts.

Methane melting point, -182.5 °C, -296.5 ºF. Boiling point, -161.6 °C -258.88 ºF.
Gases

Liquid methane has been discussed and detected on outer bodies for years, I doubt they would get the temperature wrong.

More about liquid methane.

Originally posted by blocula

 

According to this link,its too cold on titan for methane to exist,its 290 below zero!,but theres acetylene, ethylene,ethane and maybe hydrogen cyanide...

Your source is old; it was written prior to Cassini-Huygens arrival at Saturn and Titan. Cassini-Huygens confirmed the presence of liquid methane lakes.

The information in your source used earth-based observations and the observations made by the Pioneer 11 and the Voyager spacecraft as they did a very quick fly-by of Saturn and Titan. They only got to look at Titan for a few hours. The Cassini spacecraft is in orbit around the Saturn system and can gather more detailed information. The Huygens probe landed on Titan and was able to gather detailed atmospheric information.

How is that probe able to function at those low temperatures?

The actual lander only survived for about an hour, which was about twice as long as it was nominally designed to survive, but as usual for many space probes, it outlived its nominal mission length.

As for how a space probe can survive the cold of space, most space probes have built-in heat sources to keep them operating in the cold of space. The Huygens probe (the name of the Titan lander) was very small and relatively simple and only had enough battery power to stay warm and operating for that short period of time. Huygen's parent spacecraft (the Cassini Orbiter) uses a nuclear power source called a "Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator" (RTG), which uses plutonium to create enough heat to generate the electrical power needed to operate it and keep it warm, even when not in sunlight, or in the dimness of the sun near Saturn.

The two Voyager spacecraft are still going after almost 35 years in space -- most of that in the depths of the solar system. The Voyagers also have RTGs that are able keep them operational and warm even though they are approaching the edge of our solar system. It's estimated that Voyagers' RTGs will be able to provide adequate operational power for at least another 15 years.

Just so they would match, I color corrected the Titan shoreline image. I don't know about waves in the liquid methane, so I'm not sure if what I have is accurate.

Originally posted by tc714
problem with color changing it, you could change the hues however you want. i could make the sky purple and the grass pink. colorizing doesn't show the true color, only what you chose to portray,

Yeah, but what if the "true" color of a distant planet or moon is boring? Like really, really boring variations in shades of very dark (because the Sun is so far away) brownish gray or grayish brown? What's more important?

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People
Thanx for your reply and the information you provided...

My car has trouble running as soon as the outside temperature reaches 0 fahrenheit,at around 20 below zero fahrenheit my car has trouble even starting,all fluids in my car would freeze solid at around 100 below zero fahrenheit...

Titan is around 290 below fahrenheit,seems to me that no mechanical machine would be able to function at all,once it was placed within those extremely low temperatures.Should'nt all parts of the probe very quickly freeze solid and just crumble and shatter as soon as it tried to move or do anything? Like those roses you see people taking out of deep freezing temperatures,then breaking them like glass?

For comparison,the coldest temperature ever recorded on earth is 129 below zero fahrenheit...

reply to post by blocula


That's why they don't send automobiles to deep space, they spend a decade or more to design and develop deep spacecrafts and it costs more than a car. I also don't think metal shatters like a rose when it gets cold, metal is a mineral, a rose is a biological life form, with a large percentage being water.

I'd expect the surface to look like an incredibly cloudy day on earth, the kind that its so dark its almost night, but not quite.
No stars in the sky from the thick atmosphere

Titan is tidally locked with Saturn, depending on what part of Titan you lived, lets just say the Saturn facing side, the planet Saturn would dominate your sky view. But Titan is far away from Saturn, an outer Saturnian moon, 1.22 million miles away, or 320% further than our moon is from earth, but travels around Saturn in 16 days, 60% of the moon's orbit around earth. Your day on Titan would be 8 days dark, and 8 days light, with Saturn in your way eclipsing the sun for some of your day.

If you are on the other side of Titan, you'd never have Saturn eclipsing the sun, as dim as it would be. The sun would appear to be a very small luminous haze in the sky and you would have enough light to at least go hunting for food.

With all of that in mind these are not great precursors for life as we know.

reply to post by Illustronic
Omg...Imagine what saturn would look like from the surface of titan! if the sky was clear like earths,it would be totally mind blowing and beautiful.Would'nt saturn be visible all day long if you were on the surface of titan with a clear sky view? and i think the rings would stretch from horizon to horizon.Imagine the rings at a full side view,what that would look like...

reply to post by Illustronic


thank you guys for the links. yeah I'm well aware surface views from space are not possible, but I just like seeing new photos of titan. and IMO cassini has been getting exceptional pictures lately.

reply to post by blocula


I saw a simulation of what planets would look like from earth if they traded places with our moon, approximate a quarter million miles away. It wasn't a very slick simulation but the person did the math well. When Jupiter entered the simulation I believe it eventually filled near half of the sky view. No doubt Saturn would be an impressive sky body from Titan but Titan is 320% further away from Saturn as our moon is from earth.

Ah yes a simple Google search located it.

Click here, its not on Youtube.

Please read the author's note about his scaled simulation.

reply to post by blocula


Here are a few artist depictions, although I wonder how well Saturn would be seen through Titan's hazy sky.

img5.visualizeus.com...
astronomy-news.net...
www.ciclops.org...


In the link below is one painted in 1944 (the link says 1948, but it is actually from 1944). As the link says, this is a very famous painting among the "space art" crowd, and even somewhat among the general population. This was made prior to the knowing that Titan is shrouded in a haze, so the sky is too clear. Even considering the inaccuracy of the crystal clear sky, it's a beautiful painting, nevertheless:

www.novaspaceart.com...

The artist (Chelsey Bonestell) was so famous for this painting and other space art in the 1940s and 1950s -- many of which appeared in "LIFE" magazine, and seen by millions of people -- that there is a crater on Mars named after him, plus an asteroid named in his honor.

I always like the space art by John Berkey.

I don't think he simulated Saturn viewed from Titan, but an excellent illustrator/painter, and an inventive mind.

Also an ex-GM designer, Syd Mead created cool images of the future.

So if the camera can't move, then what exactly is moving in front of it???


files.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: Uhwake
So if the camera can't move, then what exactly is moving in front of it???

files.abovetopsecret.com...

Wakey wakey.... The clue is in where it clearly says in big letters 'Images from Huygens probe descent...' - emphasis mine. The whole lander was descending towards the surface, while the camera could not be moved in relation to the lander, obviously it moves with the lander.

Wow, nice thread resurrection.

The OP is kinda right in that we only have this one view on the surface of Titan. I guess there was no money or room for several cameras to create a panoramic view, or to make the camer pan around a bit.

The landing on Titan was recently headline topic, so it's a good opportunity to post this great video that simulates the descent to the surface using both Cassini and Huygens imagery:


www.youtube.com...

Remember the Titan (Landing): Ten years ago today, Jan. 14, 2005, the Huygens probe touched down on Saturn's largest moon, Titan.

This new, narrated movie was created with data collected by Cassini's imaging cameras and the Huygens Descent Imager/Spectral Radiometer (DISR). The first minute shows a zoom into images of Titan from Cassini's cameras, while the remainder of the movie depicts the view from Huygens during the last few hours of its historic descent and landing.

It was October 15, 1997, when NASA's Cassini orbiter embarked on an epic, seven-year voyage to the Saturnian system. Hitching a ride was ESA's Huygens probe, destined for Saturn's largest moon, Titan. The final chapter of the interplanetary trek for Huygens began on 25 December 2004 when it deployed from the orbiter for a 21-day solo cruise toward the haze-shrouded moon. Plunging into Titan's atmosphere, on January 14 2005, the probe survived the hazardous 2 hour 27 minute descent to touch down safely on Titan’s frozen surface.

A few interesting points to consider:

1. Methane and ethane on Titan act like water does on Earth: clouds, rain and snow, lakes and rivers are composed of methane and ethane.

2. Water on Titan acts like rock on Earth: mountains, boulders, and even "sand" are composed of water ice.

So those dark areas you see in the descent imagery are ice plains and dunes covered in dark hydrocarbon materal. The "rocks" in the ground image are actually ice boulders.

originally posted by: blocula
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

 

Thanx for your reply and the information you provided...

My car has trouble running as soon as the outside temperature reaches 0 fahrenheit,at around 20 below zero fahrenheit my car has trouble even starting,all fluids in my car would freeze solid at around 100 below zero fahrenheit...

Your car was not designed to operate in the cold depths of space. This is why rocket science is hard and rocket scientists are well paid. They pick materials, systems, subsystems, individual components based on how they test in such temperatures in labs on Earth.

If you want I can give you an inside look at this process with NASA's upcoming TESS mission.

originally posted by: aorAki
Wow, well-rounded rocks. That's something in itself. When rocks are broken they usually exhibit angular edges, when they are subject to aeolian forces they are often shaped as ventifacts. So, well-rounded has all sorts of implications.

they arent rocks , per se,
its ice
and titan has weather, and a liquid cycle, just as earth does except its methane and not water, that would account for the erosion of the "rocks"

originally posted by: wildespace
Wow, nice thread resurrection.

That moment when you see an interesting topic, decided to click it, only to find out you posted it years ago.