Pat Flynn - Does he really make $30k a month? I'm skeptical

Hi all,
I've been looking over the blog of a popular internet marketing guru, Pat Flynn, at www.smartpassiveincome.com. It is very helpful and generous with all its free advice and instructions for generating online passive income and creating websites to do that with. He is definitely very knowledgeable.

However, I can't help but be a bit skeptical of his personal success claims. First, he tells us in his intro 101 page that making money online is not easy. It takes a lot of hard work and time to build up. That's true. See here:

www.smartpassiveincome.com...

But then he claims in his interviews and story that he made $8000 in his first month off of selling one ebook about how to pass an architect license exam. Then he says he made over $200,000 in his first year, and that he now makes over $30,000 monthly. That seems to contradict his teaching that it takes a lot of time and effort to make money online, doesn't it, since he claimed to get rich quickly.

Here are his monthly income reports where it shows his monthly build up of $8k a month to $30k:

www.smartpassiveincome.com...

Here are his interviews where he makes these claims:

www.incomediary.com...
www.entrepreneurs-journey.com...
www.blogtrepreneur.com...

Now, I've been making money online for three years, and I know many others who are doing it too. So I know that making $8000 during your first month, especially selling one ebook, is an extraordinary claim. After three years, I'm only pulling in just over $900 a month, and that's after a slow steady traffic build up, that involved hard work and production of good content, with no secret formulas. So based on my experience, his claims of success and quick high profits are extraordinary.

He doesn't seem to have any proof of these claims. Yet all his fans seem to believe everything he says, based on their comments in his blog and on other third party blogs as well. To them, all his claims are true. If he says it, then it's true. Amazingly, on the internet, there are no critical reviews of him. There are dozens of blogs that praise him, with many positive comments under them, but no critical ones (could the bloggers have edited out all negative comments?). Everyone says he is the real deal. But how do they know? Where is the evidence or proof? Online, anyone can say anything.

His sample passive income business sites do look great though, and are ranked very high. So he definitely must have a lot of traffic coming in, which would give him good income. But there are many sites out there that look great with web 2.0 graphics and nifty wordpress themes, but they ain't making #. Here are his online businesses so you can see them for yourself.

This one was created as part of an online contest with another internet marketing guru to see who could create a better new passive income site, and ended up generating $2000 a month for him:

www.securityguardtraininghq.com...

Here is his original online business that he allegedly became successful and rich off of:

www.greenexamacademy.com...

On his blog teaching people how to make passive income, he gives a lot of free advice and information, which his fans say is very generous and altruistic of him. However, within his free advice blog are embedded various affiliate links to a number of website optimization products that claim to help get traffic to your site, which you have to pay for of course. So I wonder if that's why he's giving out so much free advice, to get commissions on these SEO products? It's hard to believe that he would do it for nothing or do it out of altruism.

Could it be that he is making more money off his "making passive income blog" than off of his online businesses themselves?

But what evidence is there to back his $30k a month income claims? Why hasn't he posted screen shots of his Adsense report earnings, or monthly PayPal transactions? But even those are easy to fake. Anyone can download or save a webpage offline, and then manipulate the HTML in it to produce any numbers they want. On the internet, anyone can claim anything. Even in Amway and other MLM's, lots of people making nothing are claiming to be doing well and pulling in thousands of dollars per month. It doesn't mean it's all true.

Furthermore, if Pat Flynn really made $30k a month, why is he always wearing cheap looking worn out T-shirts in his video interviews? See this one for example: www.youtube.com...

In his self intro on his home page, same thing.
www.youtube.com...

In my experience, people who really are pulling in a lot of income do not like to draw public attention to it, unless they are celebrities. There are negative consequences to doing that. Especially if you are making a lot of money online, it is not in one's best interest to publicize it, for it will draw bad people, and incite others to follow your business model and create copycat versions of your site, which could potentially jeopardize your income. No rational person would want to do that.

In addition, there is an old adage that says: "You cannot make a lot of money by telling people the truth". I wonder if that applies here. Another witty quote says:

"The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth." - H. L. Mencken

So it makes sense to be skeptical here, doesn't it?

What do you all think?

reply to post by WWu777


just my opinion - but the only way to make money off the internet - is " teaching " stupid people how to ` make money off the internet `

reply to post by ignorant_ape


totally agree - all these get rich schemes are rubbish and don't work, I should know I have tried some. the only way to make money is to work for it...

Learn the lesson

If it sounds too good to be true it probably is…Too Good to be True.

reply to post by WWu777


Just my opinion, and from my experience, if he's making the kind of money he claims, he's making it somehow from those he's sucking in. And those people can't expect to make any real money, only to support him.

Originally posted by wtbengineer
reply to post by WWu777

 

Just my opinion, and from my experience, if he's making the kind of money he claims, he's making it somehow from those he's sucking in. And those people can't expect to make any real money, only to support him.

You are right about one thing. None of his fans claim to be getting rich by learning from him. They all say that they are not earning anywhere near what he does, but that he inspires them to keep trying. lol Go figure.

He certainly gets a lot of traffic. No doubt about that. However, I'm not sure if he's making all that money off his real business websites, or off of his "how to make money" blog. He isn't clear on that. If he really is making $30k a month, I'd like to see which site of his is making the biggest chunk of that.

In spite of that, I don't buy his claim that when he first monetized his architecture exam site by selling an ebook, he made $8,000 the first month. It doesn't work that way, even if your ebook is the greatest one in the world. That claim is very unrealistic. He admits that it takes a lot of work and patience to make money online. That's true. But in real life, you have to spend many months working hard making nothing before income starts rolling in. You don't work hard one month and start making $8,000 and then more and more each subsequent month. Working hard means you go without a net profit for months first, before you start making some money, and not that much at that.

$8,000 a month is not the starting salary of someone "working very hard on the internet". No way. Get real. The money trickles in, but it doesn't start at $8,000.

So his claims don't make sense. But he somehow does have a ton of traffic now.

Check out his alleged monthly income reports:

www.smartpassiveincome.com...

November 2011 – $44,473.31
October 2011 – $38,612.90
September 2011 – $36.592.27
August 2011 – $34,034.40
July 2011 – $32,851.84
June 2011 – $30,393.49
May 2011 – $26,609.13
April 2011 – $41,634.24
March 2011 – $29,429.93
February 2011 – $24,616.83
January 2011 – $35,607.11
December 2010 – $23,646.83
November 2010 – $21,641.75
October 2010 – $17,905.88
September 2010 – $17,229.52
August 2010 – $20,683.09
July 2010 – $12,978.14
June 2010 – $12,990.71
May 2010 – $16,336.50
April 2010 – $11,461.09
March 2010 – $9,425.38
February 2010 – $10,114.38
January 2010 – $10,266.63
December 2009 – $9,999.75
November 2009 – $8,547.54
October 2009 – $8,661.78
September 2009 – $9,174.19
August 2009 – $9234.96
July 2009 – $8980.79
June 2009 – $26,558.38
May 2009 – $21,359.69
April 2009 – $18,999.36
March 2009 – $30,328.48
February 2009 – $23,106.16
January 2009 – $19,400.37
December 2008 – $12,193.59
November 2008 – $9782.89
October 2008 – $7906.55

Wow. No way huh?

I don't understand why all his thousands of fans believe everything he says without question. Where are the critics and skeptics?

Hi all,
Pat Flynn has responded to my skeptical review of him and would like me to post his response. I went ahead and did that in my forum, which you can see at the link below. Included is also my counter-response. I could not post it here because it was too long and exceeded the maximum size length per post here.

www.happierabroad.com...

Ok I think I have this figured out. This guy makes money by teaching others how to make money right? If so, then the key question is:

Does he have successful profitable businesses OUTSIDE of his "teaching people how to make money" business?

Of course he claims to. Here are his other online businesses that he claims are profitable. Have a look at them. Do you think they are really that profitable?

www.greenexamacademy.com...
www.securityguardtraininghq.com...

What do you think?

However, if he's not really successful outside of his "how to make money" blog, then isn't that a little shady or unethical? I mean, he is basically projecting to his money making fans, that he is a successful online entrepreneur OUTSIDE of his "teaching people how to make money" business, right? If that is not true, then that would make his claims unethical and deceptive. Right? Don't MLM's work the same way?

As I know, there are several primary ways one can make money online:

1. Provide a product or service that people are willing to pay for.
2. Serve as an online middle man and outsource work to others, and earn a cut from it.
3. Provide good web content that draws significant regular traffic. Then earn advertising revenue and affiliate commissions from that web traffic, and product/service sales as well. (that's what I do)
4. Do freelance work for others, such as freelance writing, editing, video editing, etc. on a contractual basis.
5. Provide some kind of personal service, such as consulting, teaching English to foreign students via Skype, etc.

Do you think making money by teaching people how to make money, falls into any of those categories?

I've never heard of monetizing one ebook and then getting $8,000 in the first month from it. I don't think even a super genius could pull that off, and even if he could, it would be a one in a million shot. The money usually trickles in slowly and builds up gradually. It doesn't start at $8,000 and go uphill from there. That sounds more like the promise of a get rich quick scheme (even if they don't call it that, but then again, who does these days?).

But anyway, what do you make of his $30,000 a month income claim? I'm sure he must make some decent money with all the high web traffic he gets. But is $30k a month an exaggeration?

Also, if he is so good, then how come none of his fans claim to be making what he makes? They all say they are only making a little, but that they derive "inspiration" from listening to him everyday. lol. What do you make of that?

On another note:

By the way, the owner of the free dating site, www.plentyoffish.com, Markus Frind, claims to make $10,000 A DAY just from paid Google links. Would Google really pay him that much, $10k a day, even if he had millions of people coming to his site everyday? Is that farfetched or realistic? That seems like an awful lot, even if you did have millions of hits everyday. Here is the story about him and his $10k a day income on YouTube:

www.youtube.com...

An article about him in the NY times about making $10 million a year from his website.

www.nytimes.com...

What do you think?

For those of you trying to be your own boss, here are some great inspirational quotes I found that justifies your venture as being sane and rational.

"What's the point of working to make a living, if most of your living consists of working?" - Pat Flynn, Internet Marketing Guru

"When you work for someone, you trade time for dollars. But if you invest your time into creating a business, you produce a cash flow operation that works for YOU!" - Pat Flynn, Internet Marketing Guru

So true when you think about it, isn't it? And it makes so much sense too. Why live as a slave, instead of trying to find a way out of it so you can be free?

Feel free to forward these quotes to everyone you know.

You know, I just re-read Pat Flynn's response to me above. And I get the impression that what he is saying is, "It's ok and natural to be skeptical, as long as you believe me when I reassure you that I'm telling the truth about everything."

Hmmm. ::: scratching head ::: I don't know about you, but that sounds a bit circular doesn't it? I mean, think about it. EVERYONE in the world will tell you that they are not a con artist or liar. Everyone. So then who is a con artist then? lol. I mean, if you believe what you hear, then there is no such thing as a con artist or a liar in the world right? They don't exist right? lol. Everyone claims not to be one, after all. This is a lesson in gullibility and critical thinking.

Likewise, every MLM, including Amway, will say, "We are not a pyramid scheme. We are a legitimate business opportunity." ALL of them will say that. They all acknowledge that there are pyramid schemes out there, but each one of them is not one of them. lol. So, if we are to believe whatever they say, then pyramid schemes don't exist right? lol You see what happens when you believe whatever people tell you?

One time, I went to a timeshare presentation in Sedona, Arizona. At the beginning of the presentation, the speaker told everyone, "Don't you hate those high pressure timeshare sales presentations?" and everyone nodded. Then he said, "Well we aren't like that here. We are different." But what do you think happened right after that? Yep, you guessed it! They proceeded to be exactly that - a high pressure timeshare sales presentation! They badgered me, wouldn't take no for an answer, and then ended up insulting me! What fricking hypocrites! Playing cheap tricks to make us think they were different. That was so deceptive and low.

The lesson is: DON'T BELIEVE WHATEVER YOU HEAR! QUESTION EVERYTHING! LEST YOU BE TAKEN IN!

Btw, I asked a friend of mine who is a retired mental health counselor about Pat Flynn's response above, and here was his response:

--I believe he's sincere in his insincerity. This making of passive income via the Internet is not a subject I know a lot about but I read this guy's letter to you and my gut feeling from it was that he is, at heart, a con artist who knows all the right things to say. If he is making this much money, which I also find hard to believe, then he is probably making it by conning others into thinking they, too, can make this large sum of money. You might ask him to provide you with copies of his income tax returns---they do not lie (or should not, lol). I believe this man is VERY skilled at duping and inveigling others into believing he is a sincere person. At heart, I don't believe he gives two #s about anyone other than himself. Keep in mind this is just my intuition and not based on any real knowledge of him or his business affairs--it is based on my estimation of his writing.

Has anyone taken a look at the links above yet?

Logical Reasons why I don't think Pat Flynn really makes $30k a month

I got to thinking and realized some logical reasons why Pat Flynn probably doesn't make $30k a month in online passive income as he claims on his blog. It's all very simple when you apply basic logic and common sense. Let me explain.

First, think about this. Suppose you were making $30,000 a month from online passive income. Would you do anything to jeopardize such a big cash cow? Of course not. But if you were to publicize it on a web page, as Pat Flynn did, you'd be doing just that. When you publicize how much money you are making, there are undoubtedly going to be a lot of envious people out there who will either try to emulate you, or sabotage your enterprise. Since you don't know who is out there, why would you take such a risk and expose yourself like that? Furthermore, if you were making it that big in online income, you'd have it made and have NOTHING TO GAIN in publicizing it or drawing too much attention to it.

In other words, if you were really making $30k a month, you'd have NOTHING to gain by publicizing it and A LOT TO LOSE!

But on the other hand, suppose you were making a lot less than $30k a month. In that case, you would have something to gain by exaggerating your income (which anyone can do) and claiming that you make $30k a month. By doing so, you attract attention to your site, which increases traffic hits, thus increasing your online revenue and affiliate commissions. And you also get a large group of followers and fans willing to do anything you say (which means they will buy any product or service you suggest). And whoila! Bingo!

So in that case, you would have A LOT TO GAIN and NOTHING to lose! See how that works? It's simple logic.

Second, I've noticed that whenever I email Pat Flynn, he usually replies within an HOUR! This happens whether I email him late at night or in the afternoon. What this seems to indicate, is that he is online all day and evening, trying to make money and answering emails. If that's so, then he is WORKING HARD - which means he is earning Active Income, rather than Passive Income. LOL

Now, if his income were truly passive, why would he need to be online all the time? That doesn't make sense. If he had a passive income of $30k a month, he would be in the Florida Keys or Cancun sipping a margarita by the poolside or beachside, and not be online much. Come on now. Get real. This appears to be a logical contradiction.

What do you think? Isn't that suspicious? Do these logical reasons make sense?

reply to post by WWu777


You my friend have a perfect understanding of how these kinds of scams work. Bravo!

When you see his income breakdown, he makes most of his money through affiliate sales of web hosting, themes, and SEO products he uses. Only a small percentage of it is from the websites he creates as examples of his methods. So, to his credit, he does at least show you a method that worked for him.