UFO?.......No!

Hope you don't mind if I join in?

UFO?



No, the aftermath of a bright fireball-class meteor ("shooting star") or bolide. Usually referred to as a "persistent train" or "dust-train".

Source: NASA APOD
Related article: universetoday.com

Another example also from 2008:

Source: spaceweather.com

Originally posted by fleabit

Why can't we accept that all(ALL) of these FO's are manned by us not little green men? I mean why even call them UFO's, its stupid. If you see something up in air , ITS made by us and you have no right to know any other detail about it. And don't use the idea that your a tax payer and have the right to know about some military craft. All your going to get is a picture . But i guess since all you have is a picture your going to allow your imagination to take over on an image you know very well is man made.


Isn't all this a bit childish?

Childish? Not at all. And there is a lot more to it than a picture. For you folks who claim you know that UFOs don't exist, I'd love to hear your explanations on some of the more prominent cases out there.

Tell you what, start with this one. Tehran 1976 UFO Incident

There are a lot of resources for this one alone. If you can satisfactorily explain away the reaction of fighter jets to this object (EME effects), the sightings by professionals and civilians, the radar returns, the maneuvars, etc.. heck, I'll be willing to listen to your opinion!

But no... no one who makes these sorts of claims.. that they know UFOs do not exist, can ever approach the cases that have solid evidence, and explain them away. They won't even try. They, probably like you will do, just ignore them completely. It's easier to discredit UFOs when you attack the fuzzy dots and ridiculous claims, rather than focusing on the sightings with solid fact behind them, right?

I don't claim UFO's don't exist. What I claim is why do you(all alien blind believers) claim most unidentified flying objects are associated with ONLY strange alien technology. Why???? And your Tehran UFO Incident , is a perfect example. The majority of us believe all known technology is the peak of human capabilities or capacity. Which is completely false. Everything we use today was invented decades back. And many more unknown alternative inventions were suppressed from the public's eye .


The Iranian fighter pilots knowledge was limited to what was only available for Iran in'76. They saw something that was beyond there capabilities. And? Doesn't mean its extraterrestrial. Again "alien propaganda" at its best ,brain washing the masses. The fact that alien technology is the first option ,let alone an option , is a sad joke.


I'll give you proof that aliens haven't been cruzin around our human skies. Because its almost impossible to attempt and master space travel. Whomever ,successfully figures it out ,then they will be GODs. And you don't want GOD or a bunch of. Green GODs interfering with the lives of the host(assuming we're the host).

That's the freakin problem. Its insanity for a human to want to be the host in an Alien Fiesta....jesus freakin christ,,

There is no solid facts behind ufo's. Its just a picture(or video) or eyewitness accounts. And? Suddenly the public are certified experts on alien technology. Wow

Do you see why all of this is ridiculous.

Origional poster relies too much on second hand "evidence" (aka photos/videos). Vast majority of your examples are result of photographic misidentification-not sightings themselves! It's also biased against apparently real sightings-providing no examples from the origional poster, & also zero examples of personal experience, therefore of limited real value, other than a distraction.

It IS crucially important to train yourself as an observer though.

This website is chock full to the brim w/sensationalism in the thread title & zero content in the thread, rediculous fanatics w/no direct experience, fanatical skeptics w/zero perspective or scope of vision, & those here simply to attempt to muddy the waters of true experience.

You will get NOWHERE relying on second hand information ( there are no "lense flares" in physical experience,etc). This goes for those whom the social powers that be have divided into "believers" & "skeptics".

And remember- confimational bias works both ways. Get out of your own head. Walk for awhile in the shoes of someone else & learn something. I don't care whether you lean right or left- it goes for both. Never assume anything is possible or impossible. Above poster for example- assumption: "it's almost impossible to attempt to master space travel". Yes it is, for us- we can only rely on what we observe, & touch with our hands. Nobody who is not acting foolish would post such a thing w/zero proof- only current scientific achievement- the future relics of the past, where we can say "what asses we were".

The only real value of ATS ufo forum, that I can see, is to 1)confuse those who are unsure, 2) reinforce belief systems of fanatical skeptics, 3) monitor for intelligence purposes, 4) mock honest people for "#s & giggles".

CIA openly monitors the internet for intelligence, therefore probably plants BS threads by the dozen here in the form of posters on "both sides of the fence"- a proven method to hide the real thing amongst a sea of embarassing garbage.

Never doubt the importance of observation though. OP is spot on about that, & thank you to you for pointing this out, as to help weed the ATS garden.

Originally posted by PeachesEnRegalia
It IS crucially important to train yourself as an observer though.

I agree 100%

I do think what elevenaugust is doing by posting photographs is giving people a rough idea of what to look out for, which can't be a bad thing. Obviously it would be ideal if everyone could experience these phenomena and events with their own eyes. There is no substitute for that, and as far as I can see, what elevenaugust has done here is the next best thing, at least till other peoples experiences can be stored and downloaded on/from the internet

reply to post by C.H.U.D.

Hi C.H.U.D.! No, I don't mind at all and great example!

Here's another example about a rare atmospheric phenomena...

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UFO?





No, zenithal light pillar:

Light pillars are a kind of optical phenomenon which is formed by the reflection of sunlight or moonlight by ice crystals that are present in the Earth's atmosphere.

The light pillar looks like a thin column that extends vertically above and/or below the source of light. The light pillar is prominently visible when the Sun is low or lies below the horizon. It normally forms an arc that extends from five to ten degrees beyond the solar disc. Light pillars can sometimes also be seen arising from the Moon.

Light pillars are formed by reflection from ice crystals with roughly horizontal faces.



It can also be created by artificial lights:









Full explanations at atoptics
Pillars to the zenith here

The lights are a form of light pillar and are produced by flat plate shaped ice crystals in layers of ice fog above the city.

Why do the lines of light converge on the zenith?
The diagram at right shows rays from just one nearby city light shining upwards onto crystals at different heights.

Only crystals on a column roughly midway between the light and the observer give a reflection into the eye because the small crystal mirrors are nearly horizontal and the incident and reflected rays must make equal angles to the crystal faces.

The higher the crystal, the more closely does the reflected ray come from the direction of the zenith. Therefore, when there is a cloud of crystals, their reflections appear as a line of light that points directly overhead, the zenith.

Why are the lines broken?
That night there must have been several layers of crystals at different heights over the city with zones in between them either without ice crystals or with crystals that were not specially oriented.

I don't claim UFO's don't exist. What I claim is why do you(all alien blind believers) claim most unidentified flying objects are associated with ONLY strange alien technology. Why????

They do?

I think most clear-thinking UFO believers, are actually quite skeptical of most sightings themselves. You are letting the few extreme cases on this sort of board influence your opinion of UFO believers. I believe almost all sightings are mistaken identity, I believe in perhaps 1% of abduction claims, and 0% of crop circles. Yet I still firmly believe we are being visited by something that is not ours. There is too much evidence to ignore.

And your Tehran UFO Incident , is a perfect example. The majority of us believe all known technology is the peak of human capabilities or capacity. Which is completely false. Everything we use today was invented decades back. And many more unknown alternative inventions were suppressed from the public's eye .

The Iranian fighter pilots knowledge was limited to what was only available for Iran in'76. They saw something that was beyond there capabilities. And? Doesn't mean its extraterrestrial. Again "alien propaganda" at its best ,brain washing the masses. The fact that alien technology is the first option ,let alone an option , is a sad joke.

Ah, the old "it's secret black technology, not UFOs!" argument. The fallback for people who refuse to believe it might be possible something is here. We don't have technology TODAY that can do what that craft was reported to do. And you think they had it in 1976? Some country has had EME equipment that can completely disable all fighter jet weapons and instrumentation, and oddly, the only time they use it, is one single time in a non-combat situation? Yea.. that makes a lot of sense.

Apparently we would fly black tech over foreign countries, risking losing our best equipment to enemies, and provoking a war. Also seemingly it's normal to fly our most secret and amazing tech over American cities for extended periods of time.

Look.. we don't have the tech displayed in many sightings. Massive craft that make no sound and then accelerate away at high speeds.. we don't have that tech. I don't think you appreciate the science behind what would be needed to keep such a massive craft silently in the air. They had a show on this once.. the power required would be astronomical. We do not have this technology. If we had the tech attributed to these craft, you'd see it in use, either for sale.. or used in our wars. They are not.. apparently we just fly them around to screw with people's heads. But I am used to this comeback.. it's the last bastion of defense always, for a sighting that can't be shrugged off with another explanation. Once everyone else fails, the "it's black technology!" is always thrown out by non-believers. Because it's impossible to disprove. Even if it makes no sense, it's the comfy hideout used for those who refuse to accept we not be the dominant species in our little solar neck of the woods.

I'll give you proof that aliens haven't been cruzin around our human skies. Because its almost impossible to attempt and master space travel.

Almost impossible? What does that mean? Either it's possible, or it's not. You are a clever fellow though, to know exactly what is possible and what is not! I imagine you are a Mensa member, whose insights put Einstein to shame, right?

A few hundred years ago, flight was impossible. Going to the moon was laughable. And yet here we are. That's a tiny blip of time... a blink of an eye, for the age of even our solar system. You honestly think in 10,000 years, given the discoveries we've made in a mere 200 years, this wouldn't be possible to do? Or possibly child's play even? We already are finding in quantum physics, that manipulating an atom in one location can effect another even billions of miles away. We are infants in science. Of all the lame excuses for lack of visitation, that one always makes me laugh. Well, that and "Omg why would they need lights?" Those are kind of neck-and-neck for me, in lame excuses.

And for someone who says they are not saying they think UFOs don't exist, well.. I think you are pretty much saying just that.

P.S. Even as a believer, I appreciate this sort of thread. Pity most people won't read it before creating an account to post 'blurry dot # 1,576,190.'

reply to post by munkey66


I know...Aliens

reply to post by fleabit


I like how you think...Alien Like

Originally posted by fleabit

I don't claim UFO's don't exist. What I claim is why do you(all alien blind believers) claim most unidentified flying objects are associated with ONLY strange alien technology. Why????

They do?

I think most clear-thinking UFO believers, are actually quite skeptical of most sightings themselves. You are letting the few extreme cases on this sort of board influence your opinion of UFO believers. I believe almost all sightings are mistaken identity, I believe in perhaps 1% of abduction claims, and 0% of crop circles. Yet I still firmly believe we are being visited by something that is not ours. There is too much evidence to ignore.

And your Tehran UFO Incident , is a perfect example. The majority of us believe all known technology is the peak of human capabilities or capacity. Which is completely false. Everything we use today was invented decades back. And many more unknown alternative inventions were suppressed from the public's eye .

The Iranian fighter pilots knowledge was limited to what was only available for Iran in'76. They saw something that was beyond there capabilities. And? Doesn't mean its extraterrestrial. Again "alien propaganda" at its best ,brain washing the masses. The fact that alien technology is the first option ,let alone an option , is a sad joke.

Ah, the old "it's secret black technology, not UFOs!" argument. The fallback for people who refuse to believe it might be possible something is here. We don't have technology TODAY that can do what that craft was reported to do. And you think they had it in 1976? Some country has had EME equipment that can completely disable all fighter jet weapons and instrumentation, and oddly, the only time they use it, is one single time in a non-combat situation? Yea.. that makes a lot of sense.

Apparently we would fly black tech over foreign countries, risking losing our best equipment to enemies, and provoking a war. Also seemingly it's normal to fly our most secret and amazing tech over American cities for extended periods of time.

Look.. we don't have the tech displayed in many sightings. Massive craft that make no sound and then accelerate away at high speeds.. we don't have that tech. I don't think you appreciate the science behind what would be needed to keep such a massive craft silently in the air. They had a show on this once.. the power required would be astronomical. We do not have this technology. If we had the tech attributed to these craft, you'd see it in use, either for sale.. or used in our wars. They are not.. apparently we just fly them around to screw with people's heads. But I am used to this comeback.. it's the last bastion of defense always, for a sighting that can't be shrugged off with another explanation. Once everyone else fails, the "it's black technology!" is always thrown out by non-believers. Because it's impossible to disprove. Even if it makes no sense, it's the comfy hideout used for those who refuse to accept we not be the dominant species in our little solar neck of the woods.

I'll give you proof that aliens haven't been cruzin around our human skies. Because its almost impossible to attempt and master space travel.

Almost impossible? What does that mean? Either it's possible, or it's not. You are a clever fellow though, to know exactly what is possible and what is not! I imagine you are a Mensa member, whose insights put Einstein to shame, right?

A few hundred years ago, flight was impossible. Going to the moon was laughable. And yet here we are. That's a tiny blip of time... a blink of an eye, for the age of even our solar system. You honestly think in 10,000 years, given the discoveries we've made in a mere 200 years, this wouldn't be possible to do? Or possibly child's play even? We already are finding in quantum physics, that manipulating an atom in one location can effect another even billions of miles away. We are infants in science. Of all the lame excuses for lack of visitation, that one always makes me laugh. Well, that and "Omg why would they need lights?" Those are kind of neck-and-neck for me, in lame excuses.

And for someone who says they are not saying they think UFOs don't exist, well.. I think you are pretty much saying just that.

P.S. Even as a believer, I appreciate this sort of thread. Pity most people won't read it before creating an account to post 'blurry dot # 1,576,190.'

edit on 16-12-2011 by fleabit because: (no reason given)

You said it, " you firmly believe we are being visited by something that is not ours"... Understand this beliefs has not one single ounce of credible evidence. Just faith

I love this title= "Its secret black technology, not ufo's" ....LOL,,, what you really mean is its aliens not ufo's.

One has nothing do with other. That's the problem with you people. But I find it beyond amusing that you give no credit to the humans that create and suppress technology(or how you say it "secret black technology,,,lol) in a consistent basis,BUT instead give it to a green alien race that you have never seen,heard nor researched.

Freakin WHY!!!!!!????


How do you know what we do or don't have in reference to known human technology. Is your basis or opinion based on what is available in Radioshack? I do think supreme technology existed in '76. Why is it so hard to understand ,,Its simply suppressed , again everything that you see in your kitchen,car ,,,,Everything was thought and invented decades before.or even longer.. And there some inventions that we(the public) would never see, ever,,, and were probably invented in the roaring 20's.



But continue to allow your senses and logic to be tainted by hollywood and the internet.

Apparently you still don't understand the capabilities of our military forces. You really think you know the limitations of the airforce. You're clueless my friend.


What's this: A show on a silent craft? Lol,,,, listen everything you see on TV or anything being(willingly) advertised for normal freakin Joe's , is a fabricated ploy to steer you away from the full potential of the military. Why do think aliens were invented or even the allowing the alien hype of area 51 to escalate to hollywood status??? Its to distract you . They want to you to always believe : "this its folks, this is the best we can do and have"...


Its not, they can do much much better. But they gain nothing by letting us know there full potential.

So you call me a nonbeliever on " green alien technology " because my logical sense would rather tend do believe that all this flying stuff is do to "secret human black technology",,,....mmmmmm ,, which one would seem silly? Mmmmmm,,, I wonder,,, human tech or alien tech? Wonder which one would be more damaging to national security. The simple-minded person(you) would right of the bat assume alien tech,, but I truly think that if the world suddenly discovers that america has been suppressing advanced technology , technology that would end the dependency of fossil fuels or billions of chemical products,,etc .. How much damage would that cause to Americas image.

You say aliens, and so what . If aliens did come it wouldn't be to share ideas. We would be done, over with.

What's "Almost Impossible". Well let's see. Obtaining light speed capacity is impossible. Obtaining and mastering wormholes is impossible. Even though worm holes do exist(in the quantum level though), and finally, Obtaining Immortality. Which isn't impossible but almost. It would take a drastic change in our medical protocol to even having the slightest advancement in humans lasting 500 years or more, let alone stop aging completely. So yes it almost impossible to even consider flying(not orbiting) out in space ,let alone traveling to another galaxy.


I know , you think that how can I say humans have "secret black technology" and at the same time NOT be able to travel in lightspeed or control wormholes. Its apples and oranges. All(most) UFO's are in our skies ,not out in space.(For sure your going to search the net to find something in space,,lol)...Having the technology that can make a flying object do amazing things in our skies is nowhere near the ability to accomplish light speed travel(for short galactic travel) and controlling wormholes(for long galactic travel). And I won't get started with anti-aging. I'm not talking about taking a boatload of HGH or HCG. I mean stopping ones biological clock completely. Which is #1 vital aspect for space travel. Without it , its pointless to be a true astronaut.


Again I don't say ufo's don't exist. You keep uniting aliens with ufo's. For gods sake ,,,why!!!...you choose to brand these flying things as alien objects. I say that crazy and childish. Its like, I see a flying object and I say its "Voltron",,,lol,,no its a man made unidentified object hovering or flying in our human skies. Why in gods name would anyone think for one minute its green people from a far distant galaxy taxing around some desert area or northern europe. Hello Mcfly, hellllloooo

UFOs?



No, dust lens (the white ones) ....and ccd sensor dust lens (the black ones)!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

UFO?



No, solar balloon!



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

UFO?



No, UFO balloon blimp!



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

UFOs? ....Orbs?



No, talc powder thrown from my backyard in front of my camera!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

UFOs?



No, Lights reflection on windows glass, photo taken through the windows.



To be continued.....

reply to post by elevenaugust

No, UFO balloon blimp!

Darn! That auction is over by now. One of those blimps could really liven things up the next time a UFO convention comes to town.

UFO?



Nope, light aircraft at a lower altitude and a lower speed + parallax due to the high difference between the speed difference of the two planes:



Red: apparent move on the video
Blue: apparent move due to parallax (the observer's plane flies to the right)
Green: the apparent displacement due to the light aircraft's own move.

This can be simplified (for better understanding) as below:



Special thanks to Nablator



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

UFOs?



No, Lens flares and deliberate attempt to hide them...





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UFO?



No, "Hangar One Vodka" blimp shoot under low resolution settings.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

UFO?



No, smoke rings:









source

Not to be confused with volcano smoke rings that are generally white:







source

To be continued....

UFO over Arlington (Tx)?







No, RC plane + blue LEDs

reply to post by elevenaugust


Hi EA,

Excellent presentation on how our ignorance can create UFO mania.

This thread seems a little more "skeptical" than a lot of your other posts.... or at least that's what I think.

I do agree with you that most UFO cases are misidentified. But, in no way shape or form do all the crappy pictures and video's nullify the true UFO cases. I know you aren't here to debunk but at the same time you seem to be on the boat that EVERYTHING is just a reflection or what not.

One of the examples you used as "balloons".... IMO were true UFO's. The New York UFO's on Oct 14th 2010 I believe.
-In large cities, Balloons are released probably everyday (wouldn't we have similar sightings every week?)
-Predictions were made about the New York UFOs on that day.
-The movement of the "balloons" over New York do not match random movements of balloons.
-Correlation does NOT equal causation (In this case you're correlating the color Yellow)

After thinking about this quite a bit.... I have come to the conclusion that Pictures and Videos are giving the UFO culture an even more bad reputation. The average camera will NEVER provide the type of evidence we want for this subject.

Here is the best video of the New York UFOs that I have seen. Was taken with an HD News camera.

give this a read

www.abovetopsecret.com...reply to post by elevenaugust

this is from my account that i can no longer use as the email address was hacked by my kids to get into my facebook account

and for what its worth i give you my word this is TRUE

and can not be anything else other than an unidentified flying(hovering) object

i say hovering as it did not move out of the same point of reference in my windscreen

we saw it when we were on the beach in rhyl

and then on the way home but i didnt see it that time

it looked like a building with a row of windows

Bonjour Eleven,
Bravo pour le travail !
J'aimerais avoir la chance d'obtenir votre avis final sur certaines photos datant de mars 2010 à Greenville. Pourriez-vous me recontacter sur G mail à l'adresse commençant par pabloperrault ? Etant également parisien, je me suis permis d'écrire français. Merci

a reply to: elevenaugust

all your images are showing is that these are clearly not ufo's and would never be mistaken for ufo's by any of us here

a reply to: elevenaugust

cobwebs? looks like its creating a light on the ground too tho so cobwebs? no

Well to the OP, to be fair, all an UFO is an "unidentified flying object". It doesn't mean its an alien space ship. That is the only thing that annoys when alot of people who say they seen a UFO, say it as in its an alien space ship. When most of the time, its a military aircraft , civilian aircraft or even natural phenomenon.

Now don't get me wrong, I believe aliens exist and heck they may visited Earth. But in all reality, alot of peoples claims of it being ET can usually be dismissed. Another thing that annoys me is people linking aliens to god or it being spiritual. We have a fantastic theory to suggest we were "created" right here on Earth through evolution. Theres even another brilliant theory that we came here accidentally via a meteor. I can't see the link between Aliens and god.

originally posted by: dan121212
a reply to: elevenaugust

all your images are showing is that these are clearly not ufo's and would never be mistaken for ufo's by any of us here

these are images that have been classified as UFOs by people that view them.

That is the purpose of the thread, to help those identify things they may have said is a UFO if they didn't have this info.

many of these images and others more mundane than the ones in here have been claimed to be aliens or at best a UFO.