SF becomes first US city to top $10 minimum wage

Australia has a $16.00 minimum wage. No one in the world should work for less! It is creepy and beyond belief that people of any first rate country should work for less!

Yeah for the Aussies. It's unbelievable that the U.S. has a $7.50 per hour hard labor wage. OMG...I remember when it was $3.25.

How can people live off such awful wages. It is despicable.

Every human being should make $20.00 per hour. There is no reason for anyone to starve and not even be able to afford petrol to get to work.

We are an awful betrayed bunch by our governments.

this poor person will go broke living in the City or he will go broke commuting from Richmond or where ever...either way he will go broke, be tired and have nothing

to add: really it comes down to expendable cash and how much is left at the end of the day...the $$$ amount is really nothing to argue about.

Originally posted by aching_knuckles
No, what they have done is stolen all of our money through "inflation". Wages have not increased at the same rate as consumer prices and corporate profit, which have skyrocketed. Over the past 100 years, 99cents out of every dollar has "disappeared" and everyone just blames "inflation", instead of recognizing it for what it is: thievery.

And jack wagons like the original poster here want these companies to not even have to pay a minimum wage....sickening.

I'd need to see some information/charts to agree with the prices vs profit, not to say I disagree I just don't know... but what I explained WAS inflation, and how it happens - debt based currencies. So it seems we're on the same page.

Originally posted by Emeraldprophet
reply to post by Varemia

 

It's a push forward, but really, all full-time jobs should offer a LIVABLE wage. In other words, if you are working full time (devoting all your available working hours) you should have enough money to live in the location you are. The minimum wage is such a far cry from being able to support a household, let alone a family, I don't know how people can get UPSET that it is being raised.

Why only full-time jobs? What about single mothers who have to work part-time so they can also take care of their kids? Don't they 'deserve' a LIVABLE wage? And really, shouldn't the single mothers actually be paid more since they need it more? Just because someone has the ability to work 40 hrs. doesn't mean he should have the advantage, right?

Not sure if you're arguing against raising minimum wages or if you are just arguing points of debate for people IF they were to make it so people actually were able to live on the money they work for. A single mother has those sacrifices to make. I know quite a few single mothers right now who take on two to three jobs because they don't make enough, and have to hire a low-wage nanny to take care of their kids, or risk leaving them at home, because otherwise it will be impossible to pay the bills.

Everything is screwed up, and all I am saying is that raising the minimum wage is at least a small step forward.

reply to post by brilab45


I'm sorry. Your intentions are probably good and I'm sure you're a smart person, but unfortunately you are an economic idiot. Let me explain:

There's almost 7 billion people in this world. If everyone were to make $20/hour AUD the cost of a gallon of gas would be $100 AUD, the cost of a burger would be $120 AUD, and your car would cost $250,000 AUD.

IT'S ALL RELATIVE. Because some poor bastards in India, China, and Africa get by working 14 hours a day for $2 AUD is why you can have the nice things you do. It's basic supply and demand. You want to make a difference? When you see those commercials for those starving african kids air on TV instead of buying your children that Xbox game or those new jeans donate that money to those charities.

For me, I will count my blessings and give thanks that myself and my family is not one of those starving people in Africa.

I'm really sorry to come off as dick as I am - but it's retarded wealth distribution ideology like yours that has totally screwed up our world and really pisses me off. Guess what's going to happen long term in SF? I"ll break it down for you:

1. Restaurants and businesses that rely on low wages gets squeezed= Tax base decreases
2. Some businesses ignore the law and pay cash under the table= Tax base decreases
3. Some businesses move out of SF = Tax base decreases
4. Young people and low wage earners leave SF = Tax base decreases
5. Idiots running SF realized they have spent too much and not enough taxes = Ask the FED for a BAILOUT
6. FED prints money

This 'debate' disgusts me.

Did anyone, on either side, who entered it, spend a moment considering the other sides views? Everyone's asserting their stance, unwilling to change it.

That's what I hate about politics. What's better for a country isn't two sides bickering over an issue. It should be everyone working together so that we all figure out what's best. If people on both sides were willing to change, and we talked about it civilly, gradually the right way would be made clear, and most people would go to that.

This thread only sums of how the country acts as a whole.

I'd guess that most people decide on an issue before factoring in any information. Conservative, Republican, Capitalist, Whatever; "I'm gonna automatically assume higher minimum wages are bad just because it fits my profile", and then Liberals, Democrats. etc saying the exact same thing on the other side. Then after the fact, selectively choosing information to support that line of thinking.

Stay neutral, look at all the information, and believe what the info supports, even if it's not what you'd originally want to. If everyone did that, we'd have the best.

~
My standpoint, as with every economic issue, is to look at history and other country's, and seeing how the action has affected them. And, while I haven't claimed to be very knowledgeable in the topic; I'm not, I'd say that it'd seem like raising the minimum wage within a reasonable margin does more good than harm.

~
Maybe 5 AM is too early for me to rant. But, seriously. Imagine how much better this country would be if people started reasonably assessing things instead of blindly sticking to ideologies.

Originally posted by Varemia

Originally posted by Emeraldprophet
reply to post by Varemia

 

Why only full-time jobs? What about single mothers who have to work part-time so they can also take care of their kids? Don't they 'deserve' a LIVABLE wage? And really, shouldn't the single mothers actually be paid more since they need it more? Just because someone has the ability to work 40 hrs. doesn't mean he should have the advantage, right?

Not sure if you're arguing against raising minimum wages or if you are just arguing points of debate for people IF they were to make it so people actually were able to live on the money they work for. A single mother has those sacrifices to make. I know quite a few single mothers right now who take on two to three jobs because they don't make enough, and have to hire a low-wage nanny to take care of their kids, or risk leaving them at home, because otherwise it will be impossible to pay the bills.

Everything is screwed up, and all I am saying is that raising the minimum wage is at least a small step forward.

I'm playing Devil's advocate. Why should the single mother have to sacrifice? Shouldn't we use the power of government to fix her situation? Also, shouldn't the nanny make a fair wage too? Or maybe we should raise taxes on the single mother's bosses just a little more to fund government-run babysitting.
Yes, many things are screwed up. More government is a step in the wrong direction.

reply to post by Emeraldprophet


It's not more government. It's the same government with a rule that has been changed slightly, in this case to raise the minimum wage by a little bit. I don't have all the answers about what the government "should" do for a pregnant women or a woman with kids. I'm just saying that if you're working your ass off in a country with labor protection laws, you shouldn't be living in poverty. I mean, without minimum wage, people would be making far less money for the same work, and there would be even more impoverished people.

Originally posted by Varemia
reply to post by Emeraldprophet

 

I'm just saying that if you're working your ass off in a country with labor protection laws, you shouldn't be living in poverty. I mean, without minimum wage, people would be making far less money for the same work, and there would be even more impoverished people.

This is totally incorrect. A minimum wage by definition is an economic PRICE FLOOR which raises the wage price above the free-market price which in fact CREATES more poverty by reducing the amount of people employed. That's the problem with a democracy - people get equal votes even though some have never taken an Econ 101 class (much less graduated college). Come on guys this is basic economics.

These types of policies are destroying our country. A machine shop owner doesn't one day get up and say "screw it" I'm moving to Oakland. But you keep raising the the wages, guess what - at some point they leave. Same thing with the BS cost of doing business in Cali. You keep tightening the screws and at some point businesses leave - either for another state or for China. It's not cheap or easy to move to China. But at some point it just becomes worth it. And guess what - once the biz goes they are never coming back.

You think companies WANT to have their tech support done by Indians or Filipinos who cannot speak a lick of english? You think some teenagers wouldn't be willing to work part time at a tech support job job for $4-5/hour a few hours a week at a kick-back job and answer a few phone calls an hour while browsing the net and make some spending cash? I know a few that wouldn't mind.

WTF is happening with this country?

I manage a business. I can't control the heat/AC, I can't control shipping costs, repairs and maintainance... I can control payroll. In business, payroll is the one expense I can control.

The budget for payroll is finite. I have a set budget at the beginning of the year for payroll. It is only for so much. If I overspend, then the business loses money. If I underspin, I have saved money, but possibly hurt my business through poor customer service. I have to manage an equilibrium.

That being said...the payroll pie is only so big. The bigger the slices per person employed, the number of employees goes down, because i can't afford more people. I either keep the same number of people and give them fewer hours or I reduce the number of people, so I can give those that remain more hours. It is that simple.

I could try to increase my sales, so I could increase my payroll buget... but in this economy, the consumer base is tapped out. I could put off buying new equipment, or I could buy cheaper products with a higher profit margin, but either of those choices only hurts the business in the long run, so we don't.

So, I have another choice... raise prices and pass the costs of higher payroll to my customers. That only cuts my throat as everyone is literally counting pennies and "cherry picking" price points and products as cheap as they can get them wherever they can get them.

So, here is what happens... I cut my part-time hours, freeze any new hiring, and put more of the work load on my small full time staff... increasing their stress level, reducing efficiency and productivity... and the jobs get done, but the details fall through the cracks.

A minimum wage is a starting point, a standard for businesses to start a person out at... not a level to keep employees at. Ethical businesses generally pay more than minimum, those employees that start at minimum usually rise above that level if they are competent and able.

Thankfully, our business is not in California, but NC. We start all of our employees above minimum, even the part-time, and we have a generous benefits package for full time and bonuses for everyone including part-time.

That being said, many of the ills that California suffers can almost always be traced back to over regulation and taxation in California. Did you know that their standards are so restrictive that certain items you use everyday have to be specially modified or produced just for California...almost like a foreign country. And if you think the hurdles you have to surmount are restrictive across the US, look into the laws, liscenses, permits, and zoning in California... no wonder I have met people that feel like they are free again having moved here from there.

As far as I know the minimum wage in Australia varies depending on the kind of employment.

I visited the USA a few months ago, one of the things I noticed was the restaurants, hotels and airports seemed over-staffed with a lot of employees standing around doing nothing. At my job at a restaurant at least, if anything we are under-staffed but we are all paid about $15/hour and work pretty damn hard. Unemployment here is low. Cost of living is a fair bit higher, food is like 35% more expensive.

But uh... let's just say I'm glad I live here.

Of course, what applies in australia may not apply in the us.

reply to post by C0bzz


Over-staffing is rampant everywhere in America. Right now there are easily 3 positions that can be eliminated where I work and no one with the authority to eliminate these positions is willing to do it because theyd "feel bad."

The worst part is not only do these positions serve no purpose they actually take time away from other positions with constant babysitting and finding unnecessary "busy work" to keep them moving.

I've worked in a number of industries over the decades in both public and private sector and everywhere I went there was horrific waste and unnecessary positions. Worse in the public sector but still rampant enough to matter in the private sector.

I say all the time around here we are not a day care and harboring leeches is hurting everyone and they look at me like Im a monster. These arent like single mothers with children to raise or anything. They're either stupid kids who should be doing something productive with their time or geriatric lifers who were eligible for retirement ten years ago and want to stay on for the social time.

Cut the fat and they can afford to pay the useful people more but noooooooo that will upset feelings and unions and reputations so in the private sector wages and benefits across the board suffer and in the public sector the taxpayers suffer.

For all this popular hate of evil business Ive yet to work for one. All I see are pushovers and saps running things like a charity. Dont let go the single mom who needs time to see her kids teacher and stuff. Dont let go the guy with a disorder who sick regularly. But for christs sake please let go of the geriatrics who are sitting on million dollar net worths who should have retired 10 years ago but refuse to and please let go of idiot kids who repeatedly fail to meet the most base expectations.

Gotta be nice. Dont want to make the old lady cry on her way back to the mansion. Dont want to send the kid into a pubescent fit of rage.

The worst part is that if these position were eliminated it wouldnt mean pay increases for the rest thanks to bureaucracy and "fairness." Cant give some guy who busts his ass 15 hours a day any more money than you give the geriatric who sleeps for 4 hours then goes home. That wouldnt be fair. To get around it you have to create fictional job titles and submit job descriptions and seek approval then nobody can ever tell anyone because if anybody finds out everyone will have to get an increase for the sake of fairness.

Drives me nuts. It'd be easy to manage a business if you didnt have to worry about all this crap. Reward performance punish lack of performance. How hard is that? Instead we lock everyone to this bell-curve of mediocrity where performance isnt encouraged or rewarded and lack of performance isnt punished so everybody just shows up and thats it. Sometimes they dont even bother showing up. Still get paid the same as everyone else.

And so ends my rant on working in America.

Originally posted by jr429
reply to post by brilab45

 

I'm sorry. Your intentions are probably good and I'm sure you're a smart person, but unfortunately you are an economic idiot. Let me explain:

There's almost 7 billion people in this world. If everyone were to make $20/hour AUD the cost of a gallon of gas would be $100 AUD, the cost of a burger would be $120 AUD, and your car would cost $250,000 AUD.

IT'S ALL RELATIVE. Because some poor bastards in India, China, and Africa get by working 14 hours a day for $2 AUD is why you can have the nice things you do. It's basic supply and demand. You want to make a difference? When you see those commercials for those starving african kids air on TV instead of buying your children that Xbox game or those new jeans donate that money to those charities.

For me, I will count my blessings and give thanks that myself and my family is not one of those starving people in Africa.

I'm really sorry to come off as dick as I am - but it's retarded wealth distribution ideology like yours that has totally screwed up our world and really pisses me off. Guess what's going to happen long term in SF? I"ll break it down for you:

1. Restaurants and businesses that rely on low wages gets squeezed= Tax base decreases
2. Some businesses ignore the law and pay cash under the table= Tax base decreases
3. Some businesses move out of SF = Tax base decreases
4. Young people and low wage earners leave SF = Tax base decreases
5. Idiots running SF realized they have spent too much and not enough taxes = Ask the FED for a BAILOUT
6. FED prints money

edit on 14-12-2011 by jr429 because: (no reason given)

You called me an idiot. Be sure that I follow your posts in the future. Seeing that you have nearly no credibility here, I am certain I can demolish you if I choose to.

Be careful insulting people here. It is not much tolerated. Those that supported you are nearly as uncredited. Be kind or do not reply in the future.

And no, you are not sorry coming off "as a dick". You meant it.

What is very telling about you is your sentiments towards those in 3rd world countries. Your not sounding to good.

Do people in third world countries really deserve 25 cents per hour to your behest? You obviously support that notion. Ahh....you like children manufacturing your goods.

Your in such a great position that all the world must support YOU in your lifestyle. You are so selfless!

My God, you are the reason why we have slavery in these modern days. Please re-examine your postulations.

They need it... I would think even $15 there is still unliveable...