For all you multi universe believers....

Explain this:

If by definition a universe is: All matter and energy, including the earth, the galaxies, and the contents of intergalactic space, regarded as a whole.

Then, how the hell can you believe in multiple universes? Then what would you call that thing that our "universes" are a part of? Sounds like there's a word missing in the analysis.

I would tend to agree with you, but along came String Theory which seems to support the possibilty of multiple universes. So..... now what?

As Der Kapitan stated, there's String Theory. For some information about that I'd recommend watching this series: NOVA: The Elegant Universe.

EDIT: fixing my link.

[edit on 9/7/2004 by cmdrkeenkid]

But even under string theory, it's still impossible to have multiple universes because by definition the universe includes "EVERYTHING". How can there be more than one everything?

But you are only speaking of the scope in our general persception (sp?) of reality. We see, feel, tase and hear things but is that all? So if you are looking for a definition you are looking at the universe as infinite and encompassing of everything and anything. But multiple universes may still be encompasse in the same but you cannot see or feel it. I don't know much about physics or space but it would seem to me like its a book and each version of a universe is encompassed inside this book.

Originally posted by BeMoreCynical
But even under string theory, it's still impossible to have multiple universes because by definition the universe includes "EVERYTHING". How can there be more than one everything?

Scientists are aware of this problem and some do propose to call our world a pocket universe (Susskind and Guth). Other simply say that using the term universe for our world has become a tradition and that we should use a new term for the set of all universes, the term multiverse.

Polyverse might be a good word.

Uni - one
Poly - many

Short answer, the Universe is not everything.

The Universe probably has some kind of structural cohesiveness. Implied by E = MC^2. A closed system.
It is not so different from a planet or a star. If you live there on the planet virtually all you would know would be that planet and it's many aspects. That as most all of us are aware of in no way precludes the existence of other planets/heavenly-bodies.

We experience our world based on the contextual perceptions we have. A fish that never jumps above the surface of the Ocean has no awareness of the air and therefore cannot concieve of rocky terrain that exists above the waterline. It also cannot even concieve that birds, animals that fly, even exist, except when one of them appears below the surface to try to snag a fish.
.

Originally posted by BeMoreCynical
Then, how the hell can you believe in multiple universes? Then what would you call that thing that our "universes" are a part of?

I suggest you read some books on Astrophysics. Particularly some on String Theory, Unification, Modular Functions, Quantum Theory (maybe on Quantum Gravitational Vacuum Fluctuations), etc. Then come back on here and pose more questions rather than saying things like "how the hell can you believe..." I will see you in five years after you have grasped the significance of these theories...

Originally posted by BeMoreCynical
Explain this:
If by definition a universe is: All matter and energy, including the earth, the galaxies, and the contents of intergalactic space, regarded as a whole.
Then, how the hell can you believe in multiple universes? Then what would you call that thing that our "universes" are a part of? Sounds like there's a word missing in the analysis.

I don't think there is a "thing" that contains the different universes. I believe that there are infinite universes, one embedded into another one (I stated this in many other threads). So our universe budded off from a tiny space-time region of some other universe that budded off from another universe...So, it's a never-ending structure.

I don't care if this theory comes out false, which would not be possible, it's still very intersting. This theory called chaotic inflation seems to answer all the questions that other theories have not been able to.

[edit on 7-9-2004 by jp1111]

one theory is the chronon theory, or pearl string theory. if you take the smallest possible amount of distance, then calculate the amount of time it takes for light to go that far you should have the smallest amount of time. put all these together, kinda like frames in a movie. sting all these together and you might imagine it as a pearl necklace. between each pearl could be a whole other universe that is completely different from our own.

Julian Barbour does interesting work with time. his theory is basically that there is no such thing as time. it's hard to explain, but imagine all combinations of atoms existing all at once, in different frames. then the laws of physics would put them in an order (entropy). we only percieve this order as time passing. all these other universes may exist, we just never come across them because they don't fit into the flow that is going on "now".

this is actually a very intersting topic. another thing to consider: if multiple universes do exist, or multiple time lines, what does this say about moral choices? if every possibility does exist, does this mean there are no bad choices, or bad people?
just something to kick around.

If by definition a universe is: All matter and energy, including the earth, the galaxies, and the contents of intergalactic space, regarded as a whole.

Then, how the hell can you believe in multiple universes? Then what would you call that thing that our "universes" are a part of? Sounds like there's a word missing in the analysis.

There are two levels of analysis to be made here:

The first one is that all possible versions of our universe exist in the same time and place as this universe. This is the multiverse of the time-travel theory...multiple planes of existence, if you will.

The second one is that this universe is a tiny bubble inside another mega-universe. Of course nothing stops this mega-universe to be a tiny bubble inside another mega-mega-universe, and this can go on infinitely.

On reality, human intelligence is not enough to tell what happens beyond the borders of our universe. What is the meaning of the 'border' anyway? what is the substance beyond the border?

Even with religious terms, it can not be explained. Let's say God exists. Who made God? maybe God is a player in his own universe, made by another God.

The only thing we can tell about these things is that we can not tell anything about these things.