New saltellite imagery at Helendale RCS. Curved object

www.lazygranch.com...

You can use the history button to show this object is new. It's about 60ft across. [The ruler didn't get saved in the image.] Otherwise not much new at the base. Old pole models gone and a guess this new one was added. I assume they knew the satellite would be going over the facility, so this pole model (if it is a pole model) isn't a secret.

I have a not so good panorama of the facility here:
www.lazygranch.com...

Incidentally, all the imagery at Edwards has the same date. Edwards is so big it is hard to comment on changes. I noticed they knocked down one hangar at North Base and added a new one. The new north base hangar is at
34°58'59.84"N 117°51'46.71"W.

Hell. Imagine them building something without straight lines.

The bastards !

I am thinking since it is out during the day it could be a sattelite shroud for whatever is underneath it. The NLOS next to it could give you good idea of the shroud size.

I measured around 60ft using the Google Earth ruler.

The shape is a bit odd to be a shroud.

Is it possible to post a pic direct to the thread?
Thank you

reply to post by PennKen2009


I posted a photo in the original post. It has the coordinates if you want to look it up on Google Earth for yourself.

While I'm at it, I guess there might be a few people not familiar with the Helendale site or RCS in general. RCS stands for radar cross section. Basically a RCS site determines how "big" the object will appear to radar. Helendale is the RCS used by Lockheed Martin. Northrup has a similar facility west of Edwards AFB called Tejon Ranch. The Lockheed facility was shown in the PBS show entitled Battle of the X Planes.

www.pbs.org...

Both facilities are easy to reach. You can drive right up to the gates of Helendale. I don't think they will let you in or course. There is a small hill north east of the facility that is public land, which is where I shot the panorama in the original post. I think it is under control of the US Forest Service rather than BLM.. I'm a bit fuzzy about that. To get close to the hill, you probably need 4wd or at least offroad tires. The soil is very sandy in this part of the Mojave.

To view Tejon Ranch, you need to hike a mile or two, but nothing difficult. Tejon has a very large border, so you can't get very close to the facility.

Neither facility has restricted airspace. I see planes overfly the both. I saw one plane do a few orbits over Helendale before leaving the area.

Back to RCS, as far as I don't, they don't put the actual plane on the pole. I guess more terminology is needed here. The RCS facility does a static test. That is, the plane or model of the plane isn't moving. Operation of the plane can reduce its stealth. You move a flap and the shape changes. Or radar reflects off the fan blades. Even the exhaust trail. So the RCS tests the basic shape. Everything else I mentioned is secondary, though certainly important. What goes on the pylon is the pole model.

Actually, it would pay to read the Howland website regarding RCS. I see it has been updated to include stealth helicopters.

www.thehowlandcompany.com...

Howland used to have a photograph of the Groom Lake RCS on their website, though they never admitted they built it. It was cropped out of one of my panoramas (with permission). Either I can't find it or they removed it.

Groom Lake can also do dynamic RCS. That is done with their Dycoms. It is probably also done with the Lincoln Las Hascom AFB N105TB aircraft.

Looking at the Howland website, I see they also do more mundane stuff like setting up microwave dishes. It is certainly a possibility that Howland installed the new microwave dishes on Bald Mountain since I'm sure they have people with the proper clearance.

Thw whole point of a shroud is to obscure or misrepresent shape. Could easily be hiding a new UAV

reply to post by djvexd


If they were going to hide a pole model from view, a tarp would do. Google Earth hasn't developed Xray technology. Well not yet. ;-)

Helendale has left plenty of pole models to be viewed on Google Earth. Just play with the history button. I assume what is out in the open is stuff they don't care about, or perhaps even meant to be seen for disinformation.

Hi All,

Long long time since I last posted!!! Don't want to dissapoint but that is just the 'Polecap' it is known to be the most non-reflective shape known to man and is used for calibration of the RCS test aparatus.

reply to post by Black Watcher



This is a typical polecap used at Helendale:




If this is indeed a polecap (a damn huge one, at that!!), then I suppose they're testing the RCS of a larger stealth long-range, high-payload bomber, or perhaps a big ass stealth air-transport then! Lol

Just my $0.02

Originally posted by weavty1
reply to post by Black Watcher

 

This is a typical polecap used at Helendale:




If this is indeed a polecap (a damn huge one, at that!!), then I suppose they're testing the RCS of a larger stealth long-range, high-payload bomber, or perhaps a big ass stealth air-transport then! Lol

Just my $0.02

You don't know how close you are with that statement!!

I saw that one as well, however it appears that they are both one in the same polecap. I merely chose the picture I did, to give a better feel for the size of this one, compared to the object that Gariac had originally posted.. That one of his, is MASSIVE, if it really is a polecap!!!

Actually, come to think of it... Lockheed's "Speed Agile" program comes to mind!

dvice.com...

You're welcome

I got an email from someone else who thought it might be a pole cap, but wasn't 100% sure. I think I am persona non grata with Howland, given my photo of the Groom RCS was yanked from their website. I did inquire if they would confirm if the structure was a pole cap and got no reply. I suspect the USAF took a dim view of Groom Lake showing up on a contractor's website and read the riot act.

You can run
www.thehowlandcompany.com...
through archive.org's wayback machine and see the page has been tweaked extensively.

Though the photo doesn't show up on archive.org, as late as Oct 2010 Howland had a photo of the Groom Lake facility on their website, based on text on that page.

My recollection is the oldest place a pole cap is mentioned on the internet is the old Skunkworks list.

Speaking of RCS, as somebody else on ATS had suggested, the new hangar at Groom Lake might be an indoor RCS. Perhaps Howland got the bid, and then that lead to the USAF noticing Groom Lake on the Howland website.

reply to post by gariac


Interesting idear there, Gariac!

Ps, I'll be in Vegas from the 7-14th of January for CES. Could you meet up for coffee or lunch perhaps!?

reply to post by weavty1


I'm just a visitor, not a Vegas resident. I've done CES quite a few times. You get better coverage just reading on the internet.

Many years ago they had a government expo that ran simultaneous with CES. I believe it is still held in Vegas, but no longer CES affiliated and much more difficult to attend. I can't seem to find the link, but will post here later if I do.

Central Nevada in January is pretty cold, should you be thinking of paying it a visit. I doubt the staging area of TIlkaboo could be reached, and the hike would require snow shoes.

It does look really close to the polecap. That is probably what it is. When I first saw it it actually reminded me of this aircraft getting tested in this video so I had to rushed to find it, it resembles it a little, but not it. Thought I was on to something lol

www.lockheedmartin.com...

www.lazygranch.com...

as reference in the Skunkworks digest:
www.netwrx1.com...

You can use archive.org to read the Tom Mahood's old Bluefire website. I got the pole cap photo from archive.org, but the forum software can't handle the odd URL, hence I put it on my own server.

reply to post by gariac

I dunno, maybe they aren't willing or able to reply to direct questions; go figure. Weren't they also using some of your Helendale photos?

With respect to RCS poles and polecaps, the problem is the tension between these incredibly sensitive instrumentation radars on the one hand, and on the other, the need for structures that have the requisite material properties (load bearing capacity, rigidity, etc) and are yet invisible to those radars. "Build something that can't be seen by the radar that can see anything."

The large size and peculiar shapes of some of the polecaps that have turned up in Open Source Land are intended, in general, to blur as much as possible the transition from air to structure and to direct any reflections away from the radar, rather than back to it. I know you know all this, I'm just trying to make the point that the shape of a given pole or polecap has more to do with the radar used at that range than with the specifics of any test articles.