The Question And Possibly Our Answer

When thinking about God, please don't think of an old man in a robe watching what you do, think of Him how he was described in the Bible. The first description of God is that He is the Word. John 1:1, "In the beginning there was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." The Word of God is the energy that gives form to all things, living and not, seen and unseen.

This is beginning to be understood in a scientific context (string theory). String theory says the universe is made of strings that are one dimension in length but have no dimensions of height or width (understood through mathematics only). These strings have an inherent energy in them causing different frequencies of vibrations, which make up different particles (remember this).

At present moment, science (physics, etc.) has helped us understand many processes, but the further we probe the more questions we uncover. The fundamental question that has not been answered is where did the energy of the universe come from? What science is ultimately searching for is God, the Force that initiated the creation of the universe. If you believe that anything in this universe including yourself is greater than that Force, you are severely delusional.

It took Earth about 1 billion years to produce its first life forms. It took about another couple billion years for those life forms to develop what we call self-awareness (I won’t even get into the implications of Who/what is aware of the self, but look into it, it will turn your brain to #). Develop a concept of awareness before you try to understand this further.

When comparing that timeline to the age of the universe, it is easy to see that our universe had plenty of time to develop self-awareness from the innate awareness of existence. If you can understand this, the next cluster of sentences isn’t for you. It is for those who believe the physical is the end all be all.

If you ask how could awareness be with out the biological process we have here on Earth, but first think of why we need biological processes. We use them to keep up organization of matter by taking in energy and releasing waste (also energy). This is not a closed system and net energy loss happens, which is the reason for eventual death.

The universe as it is understood now is a closed system in which, energy can neither be created, nor destroyed. This closed system would never have a loss of net energy, theoretically allowing it to continue organization of matter. There are processes in the universe, which, are specifically for the task of organization.

Gravity is one of the main (larger, easier to observe) processes. Gravity brings together atoms and clumps energy, creating order out of disorder. If you want God to have a physical mechanism of His awareness, there it is. Stars, black holes, pulsars, etc. are a way to organize matter for the purpose of coordinating the flow of energy. Just like biological processes.

All of the biological processes that animate us use bundles of energy called atoms, which make molecules, etc. To us, a collection of molecules seems to be one discrete object with no space in between, which is in fact not true. There is space between all molecules and none of them are ever truly touching (where the space comes from). The atoms that make up those molecules are also filled with unreasonable amounts of empty space. When they make up molecules the bonds that form the molecules are mostly empty, yet they still all seemingly have access to the same information that is innate in the universe, which tells them how their specific bundle of energy behave in relation to all of the other specific bundles of energy (E=mc^2).

This shows that systems have access to this information and act accordingly even though they are not what we would consider self-aware (I like to call them information aware). Information is inherent in the universe and is what makes the laws of physics a constant in any part of the universe (yes they change in extreme environments but that too follows a set of rules, anomalies are never truly present, there is always an underlying cause). Information can disseminate through empty space with out stopping (no mass or energy = mass and energy can't stop its propagation), thus it is literally everywhere.

If you have looked into the idea of awareness and grasped it, you may draw the conclusion that there is a base state of that awareness, it only varies on what it is aware of. If information is inherent through the universe and there is a base awareness in this universe, it is reasonable to believe the two are intertwined and that this base awareness can access the information. This base awareness coupled with the seemingly infinite amount of information in the universe makes for a Supreme Being who is aware of all that is.

This awareness, being in the closed system of the universe, has never been born and never will die. It has only expanded the amount of information there is to be aware of through the act creation. This Being must be aware of information concerning how the energy of the universe came to exist (most likely through an inquiry on the limits of itself after developing self-awareness). With that knowledge this Being could manipulate said energy, an even easier feat if the energy is an expression of the Beings Self.

If you understand all of the previous information, you can see that John must be correct in his description of the beginning. In the beginning there was the base awareness, as It expanded creating information for Itself to be aware of, for an infinite amount of time (time is a made up concept to measure change, with no matter there is no change), It eventually came to information which allowed manipulation of this energy of Its own awareness.

This energy was directed through thought. Not thought in the context of the way we think after the development of language, but in the context of holding what is and what could be in ones mind. As you can see, it is difficult to explain thought with out words or pictures (nothing existed to picture at the time).

This doesn’t mean that there was not thought, if it did, that would mean that a human born with no ability to sense the outside world is incapable of any type of thought or awareness (there will always be that base awareness). The brain organizes information that is input into its system in the expectation of using that information. This correlates to the information innately stored in the universe. It is there, organized, being used and waiting to be used.

The only way to describe the type of thought using neither words nor pictures would be through thought, as John (or any person) understood it. Any thing else would be meaningless. To him, thinking is the act of being aware of his brains interpretation of organized sounds (energy) that were learned in the past and used to distinguish things and non-things. These sounds are more commonly referred to as words.

This is the language Jesus would have to use so that John would have the slightest idea of what he was referring to. That is why Jesus’ description to John was one that put the Word at the very beginning. It was the first self-aware moment of an infinite existence. The Word was with God in that the Word and God both existed in the same place, in the void, the true nothingness, which is the only thing that leaves room for infinite possibility. The Word was God because it was the only thing everything and nothing at the same time (and still is). The Word was God in the sense that both were the same thing, an awareness of the nothingness.

As science uncovered string theory, one could say that Jesus had another deeper meaning in his use of the Word. Perhaps he was alluding (for future generations) to the fact that words produce a vibration, which is sound. This could be an analogy for the strings of string theory, which vibrate making up the fundamental particles of the universe. The Word being all of the vibrations making up the universe of the past, present and future (in our sense of time; the present is the only thing that truly exists).

One of the main questions you might have regarding this information is, “If information can only build off of previous information, how was the fist ‘bit’ of information come from?” In essence, the first “bit” of information most likely came in the form of a question. Not quite a question because, no words existed yet, but more like a wondering. In our words today it would be best described as “Who, Where, What, How, and Why am I? When the Awareness questioned It’s own existence, it began to give form to the void.

When the awareness began to ponder these thoughts/feelings, It realized there was now something new in the form of the question. At that moment, the awareness expanded, knowing that it was It self that caused Its own awareness to expand through what we call creation. Experiments on the limits of this expansion began (the awareness could have formed countless other universes). Every time something was created, it built off of a previous expansion of awareness.

It can only be assumed that after the initial feeling, the awareness realized it would be best to approach the question of existence from as many angles as possible the Awareness eventually had the thought to create others that are aware. Not knowing how Itself, an unlimited awareness, came to be, possibly didn’t allow the Awareness to create another Supreme Awareness (if another could be created, it would be pointless anyways, because the answer was already being searched for from that angle).

reply to post by ModestThought


OMG... Line breaks FTW.

A wall of text is very very hard to read.

The next best thing was done and beings with limited awareness were created. These beings, like the Supreme Being, had questions but luckily for them, the Supreme Being had satisfactory answers, spending a timeless existence being aware (the new limited beings seemed to be only concerned with the mysteries of their existence).

When these limited beings got their answers they stopped wondering and at that point became less valuable to the Awareness. Less valuable only in the sense that they were no longer pondering the meanings of existence, but they still had value in letting the Awareness escape its solitary existence (even if it the limited awareness were just discrete portion of Itself, the illusion was better than nothing).

If the Awareness wanted others to continuously ponder existence, they would have to have as little knowledge and contact with Him as possible, so that their questions would go unanswered and would drive their ultimate quest. That is what I believe to be the purpose of all beings in the universe. We were created to ponder and possibly one day, answer the ultimate question.

You might now say, “If the Awareness has access to all of the information ever available, how could we come up with an answer to such a profound question?”

This is where “created in the image and likeness of God” comes in to play. The power of creative thought is one of the main likenesses we were given. This creative thought allows us to create information and expand the Awareness through our own thoughts and ideas because we are limited forms of the Awareness. At the moment of a completely new thought or idea, the Supreme Being is aware of the thought or idea through the inherent information “web” of the universe. The new creation is integrated into His thoughts, possibly allowing other thoughts in the “web” to advance. The hope is that at some point, these limited awarenesses, being so numerous, will eventually come up with the answer to the question that started it all.

MT

Sorry, Will fix. right now but first I have to delete the first original

How is that on the eyes? Better?

S&F for your time and effort to put into words that which is indescribable.

That's what both science and religion/spirituality always do, which is a good thing as long as they keep seeing that there is yet a bigger picture beyond the current point of understanding. Unfortunately, there are groups in both fields who think they have the 'final answer,' stop searching, and get fanatical with the dogma.

I'm currently reading The Soul and Its Mechanism (again) by Alice Bailey, written in 1930, and just did read pages that discussed etheric energy and the vital body. To paraphrase and quote from Dr. Joad (Oxford University): Suppose the universe was strictly material, devoid of life, energy, or purpose. From somewhere yet unexplained came the principle of life - something that was not matter - and it wanted to express itself by achieving an ever higher state of consciousness.

"We may conceive the ultimate purpose of the life force to be the achievement of complete and universal consciousness, a result which can only be secured by the permeation of the whole universe with life and energy, so that beginning as a world of 'matter' it may end as a world of 'mind,' or 'spirit.' With this object it works in and through matter, infusing and permeating matter with its own principle of energy and life. To matter so infused we give the name of a living organism. Living organisms are to be regarded in the light of the tools . . . which the life force creates to assist it in the accomplishment of its purpose." We are, each of us, "a current of life which has been insulated in a piece of matter."

Your post is a timely one for me. I will re-read it, give it more thought, and keep an eye on this thread. And thanks - I love having my mind blown.

That was amazing !! I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed but I could grasp a good majority of your theory and it really puts it all into perspective ! I've always had a hard time trying to "believe in a higher power " but I think I can handle that concept !! Thanks You made my day !!!

reply to post by rick004

your theory

No science, no theory. It is unfortunate that people throw that word around like it stands for some sort of guess. It needs to be tested.

reply to post by ModestThought

When thinking about God, please don't think of an old man in a robe watching what you do, think of Him how he was described in the Bible.

Then God is probably a white male sitting on a white throne. We were created in his image and white is pure

Daniel 12:10
King James Version (KJV)
10Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Revelation 20:11
King James Version (KJV)
11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

\great thread op, brilliant. But it always comes back to the same problem for me, where did the "wondering" come from? i think your right when you said awareness started to wonder and then there was creation, but where did the initial conciousness come from ? Where did it start? Perhaps we,re limited by our idea of linear time, maybe its impossible for us to not think of anything not being created. Maybe God was never created, but im having a hard time getting my head around that one.

reply to post by ModestThought


You assume a lot. For example (E=mc^2). Instead E could be (Pi/2 * C) (where C is constant of the speed of light, but not a limit). Read more here .. Same goes for "gravity". You cited something concerning religious stuff from christian perspective. Have you checked out the site www.usbible.com... ?

As a post - your post was nice post. Thumbs up

Originally posted by thedoctorswife
great thread op, brilliant. But it always comes back to the same problem for me, where did the "wondering" come from? i think your right when you said awareness started to wonder and then there was creation, but where did the initial conciousness come from ? Where did it start? Perhaps we,re limited by our idea of linear time, maybe its impossible for us to not think of anything not being created. Maybe God was never created, but im having a hard time getting my head around that one.

A wave emerges (it is and it isn't at the same time) and expands to every direction.
Before it reaches itself kind of like -but not exactly like- ourobos it cannot echo nor it cannot be heard or observed as there is no resonation point. When it reaches the start point it can be defined as the fundamental tone.

The original tone starts to harmonically resonate thus creates overtones and undertones and
consequently constructive and deconstructive waves. Matter is made out of waves.

Alpha and omega has been defined.

Originally posted by JackTheTripper

Originally posted by thedoctorswife
great thread op, brilliant. But it always comes back to the same problem for me, where did the "wondering" come from? i think your right when you said awareness started to wonder and then there was creation, but where did the initial conciousness come from ? Where did it start? Perhaps we,re limited by our idea of linear time, maybe its impossible for us to not think of anything not being created. Maybe God was never created, but im having a hard time getting my head around that one.

A wave emerges (it is and it isn't at the same time) and expands to every direction.
Before it reaches itself kind of like -but not exactly like- ourobos it cannot echo nor it cannot be heard or observed as there is no resonation point. When it reaches the start point it can be defined as the fundamental tone.

The original tone starts to harmonically resonate thus creates overtones and undertones and
consequently constructive and deconstructive waves. Matter is made out of waves.

Alpha and omega has been defined.

edit on 8-12-2011 by JackTheTripper because: link

But, im a bit baffled still, i dont have a science head, what triggers it off?, how does it start? how does nothing become something, and how is it possible to create matter when there is nothing to create if from..

reply to post by thedoctorswife


It's kinda schrödingers cat setting - everything is. Hence to shape forms, the form just needs to be separated from everything. When everything "is" it means at the same moment it isn't. Hence the concept "god" has always been and everything is god and from god at the same time.

For every atheist, one question should be asked: how can anything be formed from nothing - it needs the concept "god" which I just defined. Who created this concept? well, you and I realized it.

Originally posted by JackTheTripper
reply to post by thedoctorswife

 

It's kinda schrödingers cat setting - everything is. Hence to shape forms, the form just needs to be separated from everything. When everything "is" it means at the same moment it isn't. Hence the concept "god" has always been and everything is god and from god at the same time.

For every atheist, one question should be asked: how can anything be formed from nothing - it needs the concept "god" which I just defined. Who created this concept? well, you and I realized it.

edit on 8-12-2011 by JackTheTripper because: (no reason given)

I really like you, this is the stuff i think about. I have a hard time understanding it though. I ve heard of mr schrodingers cat, its in a box and someone gives it poison or not, and its dead or not, anyway thats my take on it.

Heres is my thought on God, God is everything, God is also nothing, and God is also what is between everything and nothing, .

Theres a new thread on tonight about, if there was a God then he would have created the earth to be perfect. Im not so sure, If you were God how would you go about realising how glorious you were, you would create something that is not that.

Im probably wrong, but how do we know if any of us is even slightly right about the biggest question ever asked?

Originally posted by thedoctorswife
Im probably wrong, but how do we know if any of us is even slightly right about the biggest question ever asked?

Does it matter? Just experience. If you don't want to do that.. Well. It doesn't matter and it may (or may not) matter to someone else. The coin has three sides. It's about perspective. I might even ask from you "do you know who you are" and I bet you cannot even answer that. (please, do not take this as a insult).



... And - try to think as well about the schrödingers cat from the cats perspective. It's called quantum suicide.
In the end you always see that the grass is greener on the other side. Eventually you see nothing really matters, and that really matters.



Anyway, this thread is a nice one to define a wheel once again. en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by JackTheTripper
No its fine, no insult, i dont know who i am what i am, how long i have actually existed, i know im not the person i look at in the mirror, im nearly 44 years old and still no further in my quest for truth. I know the red pill/ blue pill scenario is the biggest cliche in conspiracy circles, but sometimes i wish id taken the blue one. Cos i look at the folks who dont know the stuff that we do , and sometimes i envy them.

reply to post by thedoctorswife


If that is the scenario, I am terrified for the things the ones who have chosen the blue pill does to their peer and to the ones who have taken the red pill. But knowing this, they're fogiven as they do not know what they do.

Sad.

dx.doi.org...
It seems even the rats have more emphaty and pro-social behaviour than humans. And the humans seems to be the only breed who incarcerates and humiliates other peers.

reply to post by ModestThought

think of Him how he was described in the Bible

As a child-murdering, slavery condoning psycopath.

The first description of God is that He is the Word.

I'm not Biblical scholar but I'm fairly certain that the Bible does not begin with the Gospel of John. The author of John seems to think God was "the word" but that's far from the first description the Bible gives. The most consistent description is of God as a King on a heavenly throne as described by Ezekiel.

26 Above the vault over their heads was what looked like a throne of lapis lazuli, and high above on the throne was a figure like that of a man. 27 I saw that from what appeared to be his waist up he looked like glowing metal, as if full of fire, and that from there down he looked like fire; and brilliant light surrounded him. 28 Like the appearance of a rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day, so was the radiance around him.

The Word of God is the energy that gives form to all things, living and not, seen and unseen.

You just made this up.

What science is ultimately searching for is God, the Force that initiated the creation of the universe.

This is a false equivocation. Science is looking for the answers to what happened before the Big Bang and where all that energy came from. Inserting a God into that gap in our knowledge is a fallacy known as a God of the Gaps fallacy.

This base awareness coupled with the seemingly infinite amount of information in the universe makes for a Supreme Being who is aware of all that is.

What? I don't think you've proven your two premises. You must adequately show that there is awareness, consciousness, beyond Earth. You seem to be suggesting that the Universe itself might be self-aware in some sense, this is a fun idea but it lacks evidence. Also you suggest that all "information" is just floating around in space, I'm not sure what you mean by this. Furthermore even granting your premises as true I don't think a Supreme Being follows logically from them.

In the beginning there was the base awareness, as It expanded creating information for Itself to be aware of, for an infinite amount of time (time is a made up concept to measure change, with no matter there is no change), It eventually came to information which allowed manipulation of this energy of Its own awareness.

This false victim to the same infinite regress that all "beginning of the Universe" claims do. So where did this base awareness come from? What is it made of? Energy? Than where did that energy come from? And what NEW information could it create ex nihilo in order to make itself aware of said information? I just don't see how this makes any sense, its a jumbled mess of assumptions and bizarre associations.

reply to post by thedoctorswife