Was Eden God's 2nd attempt?

I'll keep this short and simple.

There is no need to rehash all the circumstantial evidence which may or may not support the idea that there were previous advanced civilizations. Most of us are aware of Plato's mentioning of Atlantis, as well as the Sanskrit epic the Mahabharata. There is also plenty of writings throughout many cultures which speak of a global flood that wiped out much of human civilization.

Now to my question. Is it possible that God has attempted to create a peaceful, successful society in the past only to see it dissapoint?

My question revolves around a few passages in Genesis. After discover that Cain had killed his brother Abel, the Lord punished Cain by sending him away from the area known as Eden. Cain was horrified by this because he was scared of the other people on earth whom he believed would surely kill him.

This suggests that there was an existing civilization outside of Eden. Apparently, a hateful or barbaric civilization as well.

Cain said to the LORD, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

15 But the LORD said to him, “Not so[e]; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the LORD put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16 So Cain went out from the LORD’s presence and lived in the land of Nod,[f] east of Eden.

So I ask, was Eden a segregated attempt to start things fresh?

reply to post by lambs to lions


The question of the personality of Adam, regarded as the first man, and sole progenitor of the human race, is not the only one in regard to which the religious convictions of the world have necessarily undergone modification.

The hypothesis of the rotation of the earth round the sun appeared, at one time, to be in such utter opposition to the letter of the Bible, that every species of persecution was directed against it, and against those who advocated it. Yet the earth continued to move on in its orbit in defiance of anathemas; and no one, at the present day, could contest the fact of its movement without doing violence to his own powers of reasoning.

The Bible also tells us that the world was created in six days, and fixes the epoch of this creation at about 4000 years before the Christian era. Previously to that period the earth did not exist. At that period it was produced out of nothing. Such is the formal declaration of the sacred text, yet science, positive, inexorable steps in with proof to the contrary. The history of the formation of the globe is written in indestructible characters in the worlds of fossils, proving beyond the possibility of denial that the six days of the creation are successive periods, each of which may have been of millions of ages.

This is not a mere matter of statement or of opinion. It is a fact as incontestably certain as is the motion of the earth, and one that theology itself can no longer refuse to admit, although this admission furnishes another example of the errors into which we are led by attributing literal truth to language which is often of a figurative nature. Are we therefore to conclude that the Bible is a mere tissue of errors? No; but we must admit that men have erred in their method of interpreting it.INfo

Man had already been driven out of Eden due to Eve eating of the tree of knowledge.
There is no way to put a time frame on the events in Genesis IMO.
Who's to say that humans hadn't already began to populate the earth.
Let's say that the Eden described in the Bible was the second take of it.
Don't you think God would have just taken the tree out? lol

reply to post by GmoS719


Perhaps, but by doing so He would have robbed us of our free will. I believe His hopes were that we would make the right choices, not have the choices made for us.

reply to post by lambs to lions


If we were never given free will, we wouldn't really be robbed from it.
How boring would that be..

Jewish sages believe there was a species of human before Adam and Eve. They looked the same, but according to the sages, they were created differently. These were supposedly the people Cain was afraid of.

reply to post by Klassified


Interesting. I must read up on these Jewish sages!

Originally posted by Klassified
Jewish sages believe there was a species of human before Adam and Eve. They looked the same, but according to the sages, they were created differently. These were supposedly the people Cain was afraid of.

edit on 12/1/2011 by Klassified because: reword

Interesting, I'll have to look into this more.
Never heard this.

The populations of the Earth at the time were the offspring of Adam and Eve prior to the Fall of Man. These children, however many (hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands or more) would have left to live in other locations in the Garden. Following the Fall, the Garden was taken from man. Hence, when Adam and Eve had children after the Fall (no longer in the Garden), there was a necessity to track their lineage to the Messiah from that event. The Messiah was the person who would undo the Fall of Man and restore Man to the Garden, albeit after death. That explains why you do not hear of other offspring prior to Cain. The Fall caused death to come upon all mankind. Of course, incest was not yet outlawed until after the Flood, where gene pools were bottlenecked through Noah and his sons.

reply to post by lambs to lions


If this subject is of interest to you there are books omitted from the bible called the Apophica or something like that with a book about Cain etc. Lost in translation time and all that. These stories hold value for me only to indicate values people at the time of translation may have held.
Why do we look to the past for answers? Not sure. So many are present in the NOW.

reply to post by lambs to lions


Had a hard time finding a reference to it:

The Jewish Sages accept the notion that homo-sapiens existed before Adam & Eve, but that these were not endowed with the soul that God breathed into Adam’s nostrils which, in a sense, renders them as being sub-humans, or of the animal kingdom

www.thejewishhome.org...

This is just one reference. I'm sure some google searches will find more.

ETA: This brings a few questions to mind I've pondered occasionally. I don't believe in god but...

1. Is this an ancient record of the existence of two species of humans living together at the same time?

2. And if so, is it possible that there is still a pure lineage of the former still living?

3. Is this a belief commonly held by ancient Jews, causing them to think many cultures on the earth weren't of the bloodline of Adam and Eve, and were therefore no better than animals to be slaughtered?

reply to post by lambs to lions


According to the scriptures...the earth was made "as of old" by the creator...I have many times wondered if it was another attempt...or did it mean God could transcend time (of course he can since he created time and shall order the end to it in Revelations) and make oil, gas, fossils and soil "as it had beeen there millions of years"....this is a good question for me being a christian. I would like to know the real answer as well. Am anxious what some of our esteemed scholors on ATS have to say.

reply to post by lambs to lions


Why would the supreme being "attempt" anything?

He is supposedly the supreme being!

Believers always humanize their deity...

reply to post by lambs to lions

You mean He screwed up twice?

reply to post by lambs to lions


That is a well thought out question. You know I'm going on ninety now and I had never even contemplated such an idea. Goes to show that we have some good thinkers out there in ATS land.

The way I understand the Genesis account is that this all happened after they were expelled from the garden. I understand that both boys and their twin sisters were born after Adam & Eve were expelled from the garden. I don't think twin sisters are in the bible but it is taught in Torah Anthology that both boys had a twin sister. Doesn't make any difference though, your question is still valid.

Connected to your question is that of the mark that was placed on Cain. The way I understand it is that the mark was not placed as a punishment but instead as a protective identification. The question you have brought forth is a very good one. People lived such long lives in that era that I wonder if that was for future generations who would grow up and become killers or as you said that there might have been other clans out there in that big world. Good thought.

This is an interesting question 1 I've had myself. This is my believe .removing time frame from the creation story which I believe is to be taken on fath. OK... Big Bang. Create earth. Create life. Evolution is a force of nature nature is created by God.somewhere in Africa as trees grow fewer and fewer in the area ,do to Planet shift and and climate changes, the first man like beans descended from the trees. Time passes. Eventually and a small tribe near eden adam is born.....although he is very different from others around him.his language skills are vastly superior( he's the only 1 who can talk to God) his hunting skills are better.in general being a supreme alpha male. He has his pick of women. The other males become jealous. Adam decides to take his wife to Eden.God tells Adam that he well protect him there. And he will have all he ever needs. So on and so forth. From my understanding Genesis what is a book of Moses. I would imagine a god told Moses the creation story.
Now imagine a parent having to explain to a 3 year old where babies come from. A stork brought you honey,it's a nice way to put of that conversation until a later date or until they figure it out themselves. God does not want us to concentrate on where we came from but where were going. Ultimately life is temporary. Sometimes God tries to shelter us from knowledge for our own good.but seek and you will find.

I believe Adam probably told Cain about the world as a young boy. Cain naturally had a fear of the unknown. as with God protecting Adam God protected Cain. He eventually took wife with a member of the distant tride. I'm curious if Able has descendants as well. It is sad though Cain killing Abel. That's basically means mankind has been killing each other from the start....