ceremony of the seven toasts

reply to post by dontreally


You have absolutely no clue what Freemasonry is about . I can say that if even one of your assumptions were to be correct we would not be concerned with your opinion on our supposed evil ways. You are a fool, snug and happy in your ignorance. How could you come to such wild and bold conclusions with out a single shred of evidence? Really?

I hear the jews believe all non-jews are sub-human and okay to kill without mercy or concern.
Is it true? Could be. Do i believe that? Not sure. Am i on an anti-semetic agenda based on mere hearsay? Absolutely not

reply to post by Themadalchemist

I hear the jews believe all non-jews are sub-human and okay to kill without mercy or concern.

See, unlike freemasonry, you can simply open the code of Jewish Law, the Shulchan Aruch, and see for yourself how false those assumptions are. Transparency exists within Judaism. Additionally, the sheer non-existence of violent crimes, or any other type of injustice, committed by Jews against Gentiles, proves the sincerity of Jewish worship, whereas conversely, Christians and Muslims, being steeped in a very convoluted moral relativism, have done more then their fair share of evil things to the innocent Jews who lived amongst them.

How could you come to such wild and bold conclusions with out a single shred of evidence? Really?

Reread over my posts..

Unfortunately, i know most people wouldn't bother reading my lengthy posts, and would turn to this page, read you pithy post, and think you are justified in your depiction of me as an ignoramus.

I do not think all Masons are evil. For many, it may be simply nothing more then a fraternity, or order, in which they learn and discuss philosophical ideas.

But, unfortunately, i cannot, in intellectual honesty (and i'm sorry, describing your mood as "tactical" does not make you come off as very sincere, but as someone with a very twisted idea of morality, who twists it, because he reads a body of literature that teaches, or reasons, that's its only logical that morality be a complicated and difficult thing.. and so you do it, following everyone else, because you don't have the intellectual integrity, or courage, to be something different. I do not blame you entirely. You havent been exposed to an alternative that would command an equal level of respect) rest at that. I must say what I honestly think it is.

Originally posted by dontreally
Additionally, the sheer non-existence of violent crimes, or any other type of injustice, committed by Jews against Gentiles...

Do you really think that 'sheer non-existence' are the correct words to be using? I distinctly recall there being several radical Zionist groups that were quite violent.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


And how many were religious??? Answer: None. They were secular zionists... The Irgun, Lechi, were tp the political right, while the Haganah, which later became the IDF - was to the political left. . None adopted a religious Zionist platform.

But Kach, that 'terrorist' organization led by the late Rabbi Kahane, was definitely religious Zionist, and they would certainly adopt the same tactics as their enemies. But, they never killed anyone. Kahane made threats, protested, and engaged in any other form of anti-government activity, without actually taking the dangerous plunge into violent extremism.

The only real last time that Jews fought on a religious basis was the Judean-Roman wars. And even that was in self defense.

Originally posted by dontreally
And how many were religious??? Answer: None. They were secular zionists...

You said Jews (which they all were) against Gentiles, not non-religious Jews. And being that Jewish is not a race but a religion what is a non-religious Jew anyway? Seems to be a bit of an oxymoron.

Interesting to note that many of the members of these groups that had been invloved with assassinations and other violent acts had postage stamps or other commerative honors bestowed them by the Israeli government.

Here are a few religious Jewsish groups I found in a quick search:

Gush Emunim Underground (1979–84): formed by members of the Israeli political movement Gush Emunim.[10] This group is most well-known for two actions. Firstly, for bomb attacks on the mayors of West Bank cities on June 2nd 1980, and secondly, an abandoned plot to blow up the Temple Mount mosques. The Israeli Judge Zvi Cohen, heading the sentencing panel at the group’s trial, stated that they had three motives, ‘not necessarily shared by all the defendants. The first motive, at the heart of the Temple Mount conspiracy, is religious.'

The "Bat Ayin Underground" or Bat Ayin group. In 2002, four people from Bat Ayin and Hebron were arrested outside of Abu Tor School, a Palestinian girls' school in East Jerusalem, with a trailer filled with explosives. Three of the men were convicted for the attempted bombing.

The Kingdom of Israel group (Hebrew: מלכות ישראל‎, Malchut Yisrael), or Tzrifin Underground, were active in Israel in the 1950s. The group carried out attacks on the diplomatic facilities of the USSR and Czechoslovakia and occasionally shot at Jordanian troops stationed along the border in Jerusalem. Members of the group caught trying to bomb the Israeli Ministry of Education in May 1953, have been described as acting because of the secularisation of Jewish North African immigrants which they saw as 'a direct assault on the religious Jews' way of life and as an existential threat to the ultra-Orthodox community in Israel.

Here are a few individuals:

Baruch Goldstein an American-born Israeli physician, perpetrated the 1994 Cave of the Patriarchs massacre in the city of Hebron, in which he shot and killed 29 Muslim worshipers inside the Ibrahimi Mosque (within the Cave of the Patriarchs), and wounded another 125 victims.[31] Goldstein was killed by the survivors.[32] Goldstein was a supporter of Kach, an Israeli political party founded by Rabbi Meir Kahane that advocated the expulsion of Arabs from Israel and the Palestinian Territories. In the aftermath of the Goldstein attack and Kach statements praising it, Kach was outlawed in Israel.

Eden Natan-Zada killed four Israeli Arab civilians on August 4, 2005. His actions were criticized by then prime minister Ariel Sharon, as "a reprehensible act by a bloodthirsty Jewish terrorist", and author Ami Pedhzer describes his motivations as religious.

Yaakov Teitel an American-born Israeli, was arrested in the aftermath of the 2009 Tel Aviv gay center shooting for putting up posters that praised the attack. Although Teitel confessed to the gay center shooting, Israeli police have determined he had no part in the attack.[24] In 2009 Teitel was arrested and indicted for several acts of domestic terror, namely a pipe bomb attack against leftist intellectual Zeev Sternhell, the murders of a Palestinian taxi driver and a West Bank shepherd in 1997, and sending a booby-trapped package to the home of a Messianic Jewish family in Ariel.[25][26][27] A search of his home revealed a cache of guns and parts used in explosive devices.[28] As of January 2011, the case is still pending trial.

reply to post by dontreally

Freemasonry is not a religion nor do we claim to be transparent because we are a PRIVATE organization.

Technically there are tons of Grand Lodges and appendant bodies whose Constitution, Statutes, and By-Laws are online for anyone to read.

Okay, I'm on your last paragraph, You cannot have something in parentheses when they take up to 90% of the entire paragraph.

reply to post by KSigMason

Okay, I'm on your last paragraph, You cannot have something in parentheses when they take up to 90% of the entire paragraph.

Lol I just realized that...

reply to post by dontreally


Kether is not desire. I suggest you re-read the Zohar and Sepher Yetzirah.

And no, I've never heard of gnosticteachingsdotwhatever. I was a student of Kabalah long before Al Gore invented the internet.

reply to post by Masonic Light

Kether is not desire. I suggest you re-read the Zohar and Sepher Yetzirah.

ya...and i'm sure you read Aramaic..

If you can't see how Kether manifests as desire/will in the creative process, then you are completely lost.

Originally posted by dontreally

If you can't see how Kether manifests as desire/will in the creative process, then you are completely lost.

Confusing desire with will can be a costly mistake.

reply to post by Masonic Light



Kether is divided into two aspects: Arich Anpin - the long face, associated with desire, and Atik Yomin - ancient of days, associated with pleasure.

In a simple psychological sense, Kether is Pleasure/Desire. Atik, the more inner aspect, is pleasure, because pleasure can be seen to the be the root of desire, but at the same time, desire generates pleasure...so they are coupled in the same sephira, as two aspects...

I would love to compare Kabbalistic knowledge. I have a very MASSIVE collection of kabbalistic books - over a hundred. I read Hebrew and Aramaic. I own the Zohar. If you don't know that Kether, in human psychology, corresponds to desire/will, then you are reading some crappy, and uninformative books on Kabbalah; or, your kabbalistic study is purely mystical, and ignores the other manifestations of the divine sefiroth in the other aspects of life.

You cannot understand the sephiroth if you don't know how they manifest. If you don't recognize their essential energy, you will never really understand what they are all about. Read as much as you want, but until you meditate on its significance, and see it within yourself, and within reality in general, your knowledge will always be scholastic, and not insightful..

reply to post by Masonic Light


Wow... that sounds deep...Where did you read that, in Crowley??

In one sense, Will and Desire are synonyms, in the sense of "wanting" something. One does not will, without an object in consciousness, which one wills towards. Meaning, desire is present in will.

I get how they are slightly different ideas, but the distinction is almost irrelevant. And not something that would result in "a costly mistake"....

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by dontreally

If you can't see how Kether manifests as desire/will in the creative process, then you are completely lost.

Confusing desire with will can be a costly mistake.

If Volos is distracted by Lady Gaga them buggers can march right in and sell Emotionale a vinyl siding and a Snuggie.

Originally posted by dontreally
In a simple psychological sense, Kether is Pleasure/Desire. Atik, the more inner aspect, is pleasure, because pleasure can be seen to the be the root of desire, but at the same time, desire generates pleasure...so they are coupled in the same sephira, as two aspects...

This is a complete and utter misunderstanding of not only Kether, but the entire scheme of the Kabalistic Tree. Kether is the ultimate divine unity, whose dual aspects are manifested in Chochmah and Binah. To equate Kether with "pleasure" is beyond ridiculous, and not worthy of further comment.